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correct attention, mindfulness, awareness

are the equal?

if not, please explain

thanks

Comments

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    Yes. If you look in a Thesaurus, they're all words meaning the same thing. I'm having a hard job separating them.

    Why do you like to over-think things to this extent?

  • KeromeKerome Did I fall in the forest? Europe Veteran

    I would say...

    Correct attention has the aspect to it of right-ness, of being receptive to right view, it is waiting
    Mindfulness is about being relaxed into the present and with awareness focussed around what happens to the self
    Awareness is more general, totally receptive to changes inside and out

    Small differences, but meaningful perhaps in a larger context. We haven't really developed the language around what happens to attention in different modes of thinking or being.

    RuddyDuck9lobsterupekka
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    It's worth pointing out that in some cases, the translation of certain terms needs several different words. The classic example is the word 'dukkha'. Therefore, the original word has been translated as all of these, yet none of them may be a 100% significantly accurate translation....

  • SpinyNormanSpinyNorman It's still all old bollocks Veteran

    @upekka said:> are the equal?

    All aspects of sati.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    (That would be a 'yes' then....?)

  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @SpinyNorman said:

    All aspects of sati.

    could you elaborate this a bit further please
    thanks

  • SpinyNormanSpinyNorman It's still all old bollocks Veteran

    @upekka said:

    @SpinyNorman said:

    All aspects of sati.


    could you elaborate this a bit further please
    thanks

    Sati ( mindfulness ) is multi-dimensional. The best way to understand it is to practice it really.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    I think this guy sums it up quite nicely

  • SpinyNormanSpinyNorman It's still all old bollocks Veteran

    I remembered this thread, which might be of interest:
    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/22907/talk-on-mindfulness-by-joseph-goldstein

    Kerome
  • BoundlessAwakeningBoundlessAwakening of the Heart New
    edited July 2016

    I haven't viewed @Shoshin 's video or checked out @SpinyNorman 's link (http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/22907/talk-on-mindfulness-by-joseph-goldstein), yet, so I hope I'm not repeating anything, but here goes:

    I agree with @federica that it helps to remember the teachings have been translated many times and many ways. Different terms mean different things to different people at different times in different contexts. Even the Buddha used the same term to mean different things in different contexts to different audiences, like "truth" or "dharma."

    Some modern people would use those three terms interchangeably. In the context of study, though, I would assume that by using the word "correct" in the first term you may be referencing one of the elements of the Eightfold Path, which I've seen translated as both "Right Mindfulness" and "Right Awareness." That element of the path, I believe, is to be understood as distinct from the descriptive terms "mindfulness" and "awareness." I think of "mindfulness" as a larger concept encompassing "awareness." "Awareness" is a tool to serve the greater purpose of "mindfulness." You may be aware of useful/skillful things (like love and compassion) and aware of not-so-useful/unskillful things (like anger and fear). "Mindfulness" is a way of being when you're aware of skillful things. "Forgetfulness" is a way of being when you're aware of unskillful things. You may train your awareness and become more mindful; you may neglect your awareness and remain forgetful.

    Another teaching I keep coming back to:

    "The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones .. discerns what ideas are fit for attention and what ideas are unfit for attention. This being so, he does not attend to ideas unfit for attention, and attends [instead] to ideas fit for attention.... He attends appropriately.
    This is stress.... This is the origination of stress.... This is the cessation of stress.... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress.
    As he attends appropriately in this way, three fetters are abandoned in him: identity-view, doubt, and grasping at precepts and practices." Sabbasava Sutta: All the Fermentations, Majjhima Nikaya 2.

  • RuddyDuck9RuddyDuck9 MD, USA Veteran

    @BoundlessAwakening said:
    "Mindfulness" is a way of being when you're aware of skillful things. "Forgetfulness" is a way of being when you're aware of unskillful things. You may train your awareness and become more mindful; you may neglect your awareness and remain forgetful.

    I was under the impression that one can be "mindful" of unskillful things without being necessarily "forgetful." forgetful of the truth of things, yes, but aren't we all that? I think there's growth to be had of having mindfulness in the unripe moments.

    BoundlessAwakening
  • BoundlessAwakeningBoundlessAwakening of the Heart New

    @RuddyDuck9:

    I was under the impression that one can be "mindful" of unskillful things without being necessarily "forgetful." forgetful of the truth of things, yes, but aren't we all that? I think there's growth to be had of having mindfulness in the unripe moments.

    If I understand you correctly, yes, I agree totally. (Maybe in trying to create a crisp pair of opposing statements I was led astray. I keep a little notebook to record quotes, passages, etc. that I come across, but I've written a reminder to myself on the inside cover: "Be wary of the specious 'truth' of a pithy phrase.") =)

    Maybe I shouldn't have described 'things' as 'skillful' or 'unskillful'; people, not things, are skillful or unskillful. Maybe it would be better to say: "Mindfulness" is a way of being when you're skillful. "Forgetfulness" is a way of being when you're unskillful. You may train your awareness and become more skillful; you may neglect your awareness and remain unskillful." My point was that I think of "awareness" as a tool and "mindfulness" as a way of being.

    If I understand you correctly @RuddyDuck9 , I think you can direct your awareness to things like anger and fear (and should!) in a skillful way to experience them, learn about them, and, hopefully, transform them. This is the practice; this is not being forgetful. Yes, we're all forgetful at times and I totally agree with you that the practice is "having mindfulness in the unripe moments."

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