Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@newbuddhist.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take up to 48 hours. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Alcohol

Maaayn why is it considered such a bad think? When I drink I get deep, I reflect. Feels pretty dam good. Feels from meditating = 0 feels from drinking = loads

«1

Comments

  • Steve_BSteve_B Far southwest corner of Indiana, USA Veteran

    Food does things for me that meditation can't do. Chocolate especially. So does bringing home a paycheck. But that doesn't mean that these REPLACE meditation, or should be compared to it. Why compare alcohol to meditation?

  • @Walker said:
    Yeah, your posts lately have seemed strange. Hope you're doing OK.

    Lol I post what I feel in the moment

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran
    edited September 2016

    Who said it was a bad thing?

    I used to love booze!

    Was my drug of choice for many years.

    Take it or leave it these days.

    Take it easy @Mingle - get some help if it's starting to affect your everyday life......

    Shoshin
  • KeromeKerome Did I fall in the forest? Europe Veteran

    @Mingle said:
    Maaayn why is it considered such a bad think? When I drink I get deep, I reflect. Feels pretty dam good. Feels from meditating = 0 feels from drinking = loads

    It's usually fake though. It only seems deep because you are confused by the drink. Feeling is not insight, and certainly not conducive to tranquility.

    Also you shouldn't underestimate the effect of even moderate drinking on the brain and consciousness. I've left of all drink for four months now, and I can definitely feel the difference in clarity.

    marcitkoBunkspersonsilver
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran

    Temporarily removes suffering, only for it to come back saying, "Ha! You thought I was done with you? Welp, let's make up for that lost time!" Then the suffering returns 2, 3, 10 fold. Thats why it's considered a bad "think".

    RuddyDuck9rohit
  • From the responses to the OP, I wonder if the 4 noble truths were written by a drunk: would it be dismissed outright?

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Could you expand on your question? Because it makes absolutely no sense. There again, I'm not drunk, I'm stone-cold sober....and the 4NT make sense to me. so I can only surmise they were given by an equally sensible person....Most things said by drunks - make no sense at all, let alone sound unintelligible....

  • RuddyDuck9RuddyDuck9 MD, USA Veteran

    in my experience, folks influenced by drink dont see much truth at all. only the truths they wish to see.

    federicaShoshinkarasti
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Mingle said:
    Maaayn why is it considered such a bad think? When I drink I get deep, I reflect. Feels pretty dam good. Feels from meditating = 0 feels from drinking = loads

    It's also a flawed perception. From what I have experienced, (I have been both a barmaid and run a pub in the UK) every drunk who believes himself to be 'deep' is actually coming over very differently to a sober observer. To be brutally honest, they've been embarrassing - both to others and to themselves.
    It's like a drunk driver who believes himself to be in perfect control of his vehicle. Unfortunately, what he believes, and what is sadly often fatally obvious to others - is that he's nothing of the kind.

    so, sorry @Mingle, but you're really just kidding yourself if you think you're deep and reflecting.
    It may feel 'pretty dam (sic) good'. But I can guarantee you, sure as daylight is due to the sun - you're far more likely to be ridiculous. "Why is it considered such a bad 'think'? ..? Were you drunk when you typed this?

    KeromelobsterSwaroop
  • FosdickFosdick in its eye are mirrored far off mountains Alaska, USA Veteran

    Alcohol, like many other things, is a sense pleasure and a potential distraction from the path. Are distractions always a bad thing? Perhaps only when they are over indulged? Is there such thing as skillful use of distractions?

    Alcohol specifically produces a health benefit when taken in strict moderation - i.e. a statistical increase in life expectancy - but a corresponding decrease in life expectancy when taken immoderately ( more than 2 "drinks" per day, or more than about 12 ounces of table wine ) What about its effect on the mind? In my experience, even a small amount - 3 ounces of red wine - results in a reduction of mental clarity.

    I am very fond of red wine, and so I once undertook to study its effect in meditative contemplation. One or two ounces seems to produce no discernible effect, but at three ounces a reduction in clarity becomes apparent. At the upper limit of "moderation" -12 ounces - mental clarity is out the window and into the dumpster.

    So imbibe it mindfully and with caution, if at all. Red wine makes a superior mouthwash - even my dentist recommends it. ;)

    BunksWalkersilver
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    "Reality's for those who can't handle booze !"

    lobsterSteve_Bsilverherberto
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    @Fosdick said:
    Alcohol, like many other things, is a sense pleasure and a potential distraction from the path. Are distractions always a bad thing? Perhaps only when they are over indulged? Is there such thing as skillful use of distractions?

    Alcohol specifically produces a health benefit when taken in strict moderation - i.e. a statistical increase in life expectancy - but a corresponding decrease in life expectancy when taken immoderately ( more than 2 "drinks" per day, or more than about 12 ounces of table wine ) What about its effect on the mind? In my experience, even a small amount - 3 ounces of red wine - results in a reduction of mental clarity.

    I am very fond of red wine, and so I once undertook to study its effect in meditative contemplation. One or two ounces seems to produce no discernible effect, but at three ounces a reduction in clarity becomes apparent. At the upper limit of "moderation" -12 ounces - mental clarity is out the window and into the dumpster.

    So imbibe it mindfully and with caution, if at all. Red wine makes a superior mouthwash - even my dentist recommends it. ;)

    Most sensible post so far on the topic......enjoyed moderately and mindfully, it can be helpful.....

    silverherberto
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    edited September 2016

    @Mingle you know the answer to your question, of why alcohol is considered one of the things the Precepts warn you against. You know the role alcohol plays in violence and destroyed lives. There are thousands of people in AA meetings every night that can tell you why alcohol is to be avoided. There are thousands more in prison who don't even remember their alcohol fueled crime. You know this. And even if you can handle it, you know it's still a risk you're taking. Every one of those people started off thinking they could handle it.

    I enjoy a beer once in a while. I used to, in my younger days, enjoy rolling a joint once in a while. Sometimes right after I got back from teaching meditation class. But I didn't pretend the Dharma was wrong. I knew then and now I'm not a perfect Buddhist and if it screwed me up, I'd been warned.

    Alcohol isn't the cause of a society's problems. Muslim cultures that don't allow alcohol have plenty of violence and crime. But it certainly deserves its place in the Precepts.

    silverherberto
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Mingle said:
    Maaayn why is it considered such a bad think? When I drink I get deep, I reflect. Feels pretty dam good. Feels from meditating = 0 feels from drinking = loads

    Yeah post again after the hangover has subsided :frown:

    Swaroop
  • @federica said:

    @Mingle said:
    Maaayn why is it considered such a bad think? When I drink I get deep, I reflect. Feels pretty dam good. Feels from meditating = 0 feels from drinking = loads

    It's also a flawed perception. From what I have experienced, (I have been both a barmaid and run a pub in the UK) every drunk who believes himself to be 'deep' is actually coming over very differently to a sober observer. To be brutally honest, they've been embarrassing - both to others and to themselves.
    It's like a drunk driver who believes himself to be in perfect control of his vehicle. Unfortunately, what he believes, and what is sadly often fatally obvious to others - is that he's nothing of the kind.

    so, sorry @Mingle, but you're really just kidding yourself if you think you're deep and reflecting.
    It may feel 'pretty dam (sic) good'. But I can guarantee you, sure as daylight is due to the sun - you're far more likely to be ridiculous. "Why is it considered such a bad 'think'? ..? Were you drunk when you typed this?

    Totally drunk. Yeah that was a typo. Now I am sober-er I can explain what I meant. Alcohol just seems to bring stuff up. I have always been distant from my emotions and Its nice as it makes me feel more in touch with myself. Can feeling be fake?

  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Steve_B said:
    Food does things for me that meditation can't do. Chocolate especially. So does bringing home a paycheck. But that doesn't mean that these REPLACE meditation, or should be compared to it. Why compare alcohol to meditation?

    Because perhaps @Mingle wants instant enlightenment or results. Anything worthwhile takes an effort - especially when it comes to oneself.

    BunkslobsterpersonSteve_B
  • I've heard of people "drunk texting" their ex girlfriends or boyfriends, but not a Buddhist forum. I suppose it's safer. An ex girlfriend is liable to clock you one the next time she sees you. Or take that appeal to get back together seriously.

    dhammachickBunksKeromeSwaroop
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Mingle said:
    Totally drunk. Yeah that was a typo. Now I am sober-er I can explain what I meant. Alcohol just seems to bring stuff up. I have always been distant from my emotions and Its nice as it makes me feel more in touch with myself. Can feeling be fake?

    Yes it can. We react to what we perceive to be happening. When you're ferschnickered, things are rarely what they seem. Just ask those who claim beer goggles when regretting who they wake up next to sober the next morning.............

    Bunksperson
  • Steve_BSteve_B Far southwest corner of Indiana, USA Veteran
    edited September 2016

    Many many years ago I noticed that my guitar playing was noticeably better, more fluid, more inventive, with a little bit of alcohol. Even technically better, cleaner, more precise. Until I got a good Fostex open reel multitrack deck and recorded some of this brilliance. Maaayn.

    dhammachickBunkssilver
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    ...And you do realise alcohol makes your hair fall out.... right? :scream:

    Maybe one very good materialistic reason for easing back on the ol' sauce there, @Mingle .... ;)

    Steve_BSwaroopdhammachick
  • Will_BakerWill_Baker Vermont Veteran

    I sleep better without it...

  • @Gui said:
    From the responses to the OP, I wonder if the 4 noble truths were written by a drunk: would it be dismissed outright?

    @federica said:
    Could you expand on your question? Because it makes absolutely no sense. There again, I'm not drunk, I'm stone-cold sober....and the 4NT make sense to me. so I can only surmise they were given by an equally sensible person....Most things said by drunks - make no sense at all, let alone sound unintelligible....

    I wasn't drunk either. I'm not drunk now. What I was trying to get across is that it seems to me like we care more about who said something we hold in high regard more than the actual words. For example, if we found out after years of practice that someone, say like W.C. Fields wrote the 4NT how many of us would just throw our hands up in the air and say, well a drunk wrote this, it must be total nonsense.
    In regards to the OP, I sense a lot of righteousness in remarks. That kind of judgement always seems to make me queasy. Beer goggles, sleep goggles, we all wear some kind.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited September 2016

    @Gui said:I wasn't drunk either. I'm not drunk now. What I was trying to get across is that it seems to me like we care more about who said something we hold in high regard more than the actual words.

    No, I don't think that's true at all. A person's wisdom may enhance their reputation, but there have been plenty of times when stupid people have said wise things, and wise people have said stupid things. So frankly, I can confidently disagree with your statement.
    If a person is known for being perpetually wise, however, then yes, that person is bound to cultivate respect and high regard. The opposite applies to someone who perpetually puts their foot firmly in their mouth. Many politicians suffer from this 'malady'. I can think of several right now...

    For example, if we found out after years of practice that someone, say like W.C. Fields wrote the 4NT how many of us would just throw our hands up in the air and say, well a drunk wrote this, it must be total nonsense.

    This is - I'm sorry - an idiotic statement. because one of the first lessons the Buddha brings us is The Kalama Sutta. He encourages us to test the teachings for ourselves. Therefore, it would little matter if we now discovered the Buddha is not whom we thought he wqas. His words carry wisdom, abd it would be a pretty judgemental and shallow Buddhist who would then refute them.
    Furthermore, frankly, there have been quite a few Tibetan Lamas whose behaviour has come under scrutiny and question - but whose words nevertheless resonate with significance and importance.
    So this too, is an error of thought, in my opinion....

    In regards to the OP, I sense a lot of righteousness in remarks. That kind of judgement always seems to make me queasy. Beer goggles, sleep goggles, we all wear some kind.

    Yes, but they don't rot our liver, drain our funds dry and have a devastating knock-on effect on our families. And it's not so much the fact that the OP has a drink. It's the mistaken ideology he places upon its effect.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    It's no secret Trungpa was a drunk (among other things) but he still had a lot of wise things to say. However, I'll say that the brain of an alcoholic isn't the same as the brain of a non-alcoholic who happens to be drunk. Alcoholics are often very intelligent people who still have intelligent things to say, their brains have become accustomed to a lot of alcohol. The random drunk person, however, is a bit different.

    More than once in my life I've thought I thought something profound and "clear" , and written it down when I was drunk. The next day, it made little sense. Now, that isn't to say what happened wasn't profound in some way. But if it had meaning, it was completely lost between drunk and sober and therefore doesn't really matter anymore. I most certainly wasn't going to get drunk more often in an attempt to experience that more often, or figure it out. It was just my chemical addled brain cells making word soup, for the most part. Even if the word soup sounded good in my head at the time.

  • Lol I had a few drinks in order to get a lil teary

  • Sounds weak I know but crying or deep sadness is something I haven't felt in a long time. Not to say I don't feel negative because of course I do but there is just something of a release to just reflecting and feeling sad. It just feels like having a drink brings me closer to that. Obviously my first post wasn't the most sophisticated one and I did think "hmm should I really post this" before I did but that's just what I'm like when I'm drunk.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    that's because alcohol is a depressant, including depressing emotions. If you are feeling a need to explore those feelings, there are better ways to do so that will give you more understanding and clarity about where they are seated within you and why you struggle to let them out without drinking to do so. Thinking that crying and/or sadness is weak is a good place to start investigating. Because it's not true.

    dhammachickMingle
  • @karasti said:
    that's because alcohol is a depressant, including depressing emotions. If you are feeling a need to explore those feelings, there are better ways to do so that will give you more understanding and clarity about where they are seated within you and why you struggle to let them out without drinking to do so. Thinking that crying and/or sadness is weak is a good place to start investigating. Because it's not true.

    Yeah that is true but doesn't this kinda thing mean dishing out lots of money on therapy.

  • @federica said:
    No.
    It means studying the 4 Noble Truths, the 8Fold Path, the 5 precepts and researching, discussing and learning here.
    All of the above can be done for free.
    Not depressing or tear-inducing.

    And it won't make you go bald, either.

    Lol I'm not as paranoid about that now as I was.

  • Steve_BSteve_B Far southwest corner of Indiana, USA Veteran

    @federica said:

    @Gui said:

    For example, if we found out after years of practice that someone, say like W.C. Fields wrote the 4NT how many of us would just throw our hands up in the air and say, well a drunk wrote this, it must be total nonsense.

    This is - I'm sorry - an idiotic statement. because one of the first lessons the Buddha brings us is The Kalama Sutta.

    This is a quite correct statement, well founded in psychology. A statement made by a recognized authority will generally be held in higher regard than the same statement made by a suspect or noncredible authority. The effect holds, to a degree, when a celebrity is substituted for an authority.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    edited September 2016

    @mingle I wasn't suggesting therapy (though sometimes it is called for and quite helpful, and often more affordable than you'd think). I meant walking the walk of Buddhism and investigating yourself and go into depths you've not gone before. Practice will take you there automatically. Most likely with plenty of tears, if they are needed. Except as you work through that stuff and understand it, that need to put yourself into those feelings just to express them goes away.

  • @karasti said:
    @mingle I wasn't suggesting therapy (though sometimes it is called for and quite helpful, and often more affordable than you'd think). I meant walking the walk of Buddhism and investigating yourself and go into depths you've not gone before. Practice will take you there automatically.

    It is weird, but being emotionally distant actually almost makes skeptical of any sort of deep meaning full human experience. I just look in the world in a very shallow way. I just sometimes find it hard to believe there is any sort of path or depth to anything.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    if you felt the need to drink to pull sadness and tears out, there is something deeper in there to deal with. That is mostly what I meant.

    dhammachick
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @karasti said:
    @mingle I wasn't suggesting therapy (though sometimes it is called for and quite helpful, and often more affordable than you'd think). I meant walking the walk of Buddhism and investigating yourself and go into depths you've not gone before. Practice will take you there automatically. Most likely with plenty of tears, if they are needed. Except as you work through that stuff and understand it, that need to put yourself into those feelings just to express them goes away.

    I think in this case therapy is warranted.

  • newlotusnewlotus Australia Explorer

    @Mingle said:
    Totally drunk. Yeah that was a typo. Now I am sober I can explain what I meant. Alcohol just seems to bring stuff up. I have always been distant from my emotions and Its nice as it makes me feel more in touch with myself. Can feeling be fake?

    At a time when my subconscious was not allowing me to be in touch with my memories or feelings I also got like this. Alcohol was the one time that I could feel. Any other time I felt numb or pain. But the alcohol also brought up the feelings and memories that I was trying to shut out.
    Being numb was my coping mechanism, being drunk was my venting strategy. Feeling numb has usually in my case been a way to cope when things are to hard. Lately I have learnt that is more effective to face the feelings rather than pushing them away.
    I don't know you but maybe think about this a bit.

  • @seeker242 said:
    Nobody has ever passed out in the bushes naked from doing too much meditation. :p

    There is always a first. Perhaps I shall try it.

  • SpinyNormanSpinyNorman It's still all old bollocks Veteran

    @seeker242 said:
    Nobody has ever passed out in the bushes naked from doing too much meditation. :p

    You've obviously had an interesting life. :p

    Shoshin
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @dhammachick I'm not saying it isn't. Just clarifying that that was not what my post was about at that point.

  • The top three leading cause of death is heart disease, cancer, and lower respiratory disease.
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

    What it doesn't tell you is that having a weak or damaged liver makes the body susceptible to diseases, but that's just my opinion.

  • @namarupa said:
    The top three leading cause of death is heart disease, cancer, and lower respiratory disease.
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

    What it doesn't tell you is that having a weak or damaged liver makes the body susceptible to diseases, but that's just my opinion.

    And hangovers, oh god the hangovers. I'm I still feeling the effects from the juice two nights ago. I'll take meditation next time.

    silver
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Mingle, If you're not a regular habitual drinker, the fact that the hangover has lingered is a sign that you overloaded your liver.
    The liver is responsible for evacuating toxins from the body, and dispersing them harmlessly through your system.
    Any it can't get rid of, or that would be too toxic for the process to work - remain stored in the liver for the rest of your life.

    Please drink at least a pint of water with 2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar, as soon as you can. Or eat a couple of apples.

    I'm serious.

    Minglelobster
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.