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Being single

BunksBunks Australia Veteran

An interesting observation I've made over the last couple of months - people assume that because I am single I must be lonely or sad? Especially women. I've observed some envy from men :)

There have been moments (especially early on) but my overwhelming feeling has been relief and freedom!

JaySonlobster
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Comments

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    It's kind of the same feeling others have about women who say they don't want children. Disbelief, and the assurance that they'll change their minds...
    My daughter is one such person. She is utterly adamant she doesn't want children.
    But she is often met with a mix of responses, and even some jealousy, she is sure....

    My response in your shoes would be " 'Alone' is at the beginning of the dictionary. 'Lonely' is somewhere in the middle. Unattached' is virtually at the end. The three are entirely unconnected. Thanks anyway...."

    BunksTiggerNirvana
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited January 15

    Welcome to @ZenCanuck our new flirtatious 'Trump bait' - not quite the appropriate term :3 ... let me just say 'member' for now ... <3 Children are wonderful but then so is not clinging to their presence or absence ... :)

    ZenCanuck
  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran
    edited January 15

    @lobster said:
    ..... Children are wonderful but then so is not clinging to their presence or absence ... :)

    Whoa. sandal slap for me. I guess bec of my current situation...I needed to hear that...just like that. Gratitude.

    Hi @ZenCanuck ! hahaha...I like you! =)

    ZenCanuck
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    I love my kids! And I enjoy spending time with them.
    But I also enjoy my four to five days a week away from them!
    Best of both worlds I reckon.... =)

    lobster
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited January 15

    @ZenCanuck said:

    Single now, wish I wasn't, but not losing sleep over it either...I've got a lot of other richness in my life, and Toronto is pretty much a vast wasteland for singles of any age. I'm only half-joking when I say I'm thinking of advertising for an American man who would like to marry his way into Canada to avoid the Trumpocalypse ;)

    I've run into that idea on other internet forums: that Toronto is terrible for dating. Why is that? There are so many singles complaining about it, that it can't be due to a dearth of singles. What's going on over there?

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Because Toronto is an abbreviation. The real name of the city is Torontojohntomicktonicktolarrytoharrytodaytomorrow.

    It's a dating nightmare because guys never stick around for more than 24 hours.

    dhammachickTigger
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Bunks said:
    There have been moments (especially early on) but my overwhelming feeling has been relief and freedom!

    Come to Sydney for an AFL match sometime :awesome:

    _ /\ _

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    When (if!!) the time comes where the mighty Blues have a chance against either Sydney or GWS I might head up there mate......

    dhammachick
  • Steve_BSteve_B Far southwest corner of Indiana, USA Veteran

    I think there's an unspoken expectation that if you are unlike the majority in some way, you probably wish you could fix this. If you've lost your hair, you probably wish you had hair, you poor thing. No kids, you probably wish you had some. Surely you wish to be in line with everyone else, don't you?

  • personperson Where is my mind? 'Merica! Veteran

    If it ever comes up that I'm over 40 and single about half the time I get the question, "Why aren't you married/have a girlfriend?", the other half I get some sort of support and an expression of how lucky I am.

    If the question comes up about not having kids I say I love spending time with my niblings, they keep me young, if they were my kids they would make me old. :p

    Bunks
  • DakiniDakini Veteran

    @person said:
    If it ever comes up that I'm over 40 and single about half the time I get the question, "Why aren't you married/have a girlfriend?", the other half I get some sort of support and an expression of how lucky I am.

    If the question comes up about not having kids I say I love spending time with my niblings, they keep me young, if they were my kids they would make me old. :p

    No one has ever been so gauche as to ask me. No one. Not relatives, not nobody. Thank heaven there are people like that in the world.

    Bunks
  • techietechie India Veteran

    @person said:
    If it ever comes up that I'm over 40 and single about half the time I get the question, "Why aren't you married/have a girlfriend?", the other half I get some sort of support and an expression of how lucky I am.

    If the question comes up about not having kids I say I love spending time with my niblings, they keep me young, if they were my kids they would make me old. :p

    I thought this only happened where I live. Good to know that this torture is universal. ;)

    Bunkslobstersilver
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @Bunks do you think they would say they enjoy not seeing you 4-5 days a week? I mean,I know that's not what you are quite saying, just wondering if they have the same view of the situation as you do. My dad had the same freedom when my parents divorced. My mom got all the responsibility, my dad sent a check and spent a few days a month with us. He got all the weekend fun and summer vacation, she got all the real life challenges, sick days, teacher conferences, etc. But he lived 60 miles away. Both my sister and I had quite a few years of resentment of his enjoyed freedom while we went through life without him there the majority of the time.

    VastmindTigger
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited January 16

    I understand what you're trying to say @karasti but you can't compare the situations. I was 19 when my parents divorced (they remarried 6 years later but that's an entirely different thing). and I wanted to live with my dad but he insisted I live with my mum. So I moved out on my own.....

    I digress but I highly doubt @Bunks loves being childfree and would prefer the noise and chaos that comes with parenting over living alone any day, judging from what he has told us.

    Edited to add: - I apologise if it comes off as hostile, but seeing as I am a single mother, not by choice, I've had my fair share of well meaning but sometimes passive aggressive or just insensitive comments thrown my way. I'm not saying yours were, but I am saying that in this case I may be a little biaised here (and protective of my friend and fellow Aussie). So my apologies.

    _ /\ _

    Bunks
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    Hey @karasti - I'm sorry btw.

  • TiggerTigger Toronto, Canada Veteran

    @Bunks said:
    An interesting observation I've made over the last couple of months - people assume that because I am single I must be lonely or sad? Especially women. I've observed some envy from men :)

    When I was single I got the same reaction from people - "you must be lonely" and I wasn't, not at all. First of all I wasn't ready. I had got out of a bad relationship and needed to find myself, to know who I was and what I wanted for myself. I needed to truly love myself before I could love another. It was more spiritual than it was lonely for me. I would not trade that time I have spent with myself for anything in the world. I got to me, undertstand me and love me, only then was I ready to let someone in.

    VastmindlobsterKannon
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    Thanks for the reminder @karasti.

    I also realised that with my parents too. I was so wrapped up in myself I forgot how it affected them. My dad is still too angry to talk to her but my mum is ok. Just sad.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    It is really hard when relationships end that are so wound up in every aspect of other people. Even though they are between 2 people, they really often involve the whole family, which is hard! Just something to keep in mind as either of you start dating one day again, too. We are dealing with issues with my middle son and my husband (who is his step dad and has been for 10 of his 14 years). It's hard. Relationships are just so complicated. No wonder Buddha recommends against them ;)

    Tigger
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    @karasti. My ex is already dating. That's what instigated the break up.

    I have met him and he seems like a decent guy. I trust her judgement. She's a sensible person. I like the fact he already has a kid so understands the challenges and needs of both the child and the parent.

    Her and I have also started going out for dinner with the kids occasionally too. I think it's good for them to see that we're ok.

    TiggerkarastilobsterShoshin
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    The classic advice applies:

    • Do not squabble, argue or score points in the presence of the children;
    • Do not use the children as a means of scoring points, getting back at or manipulating your ex;
    • Always be as honest with them and speak to them frankly as their age allows, and reassure them they are very much loved, and that the break has absolutely nothing to do with them.

    I'm sure this is all academic with your situation @Bunks, and am certain it's an unnecessary list of caveats.

    But beware also.
    Young children learn to manipulate and push buttons when they feel they can exploit a situation to their possible advantage.

    I'm not suggesting they will turn into conniving little monsters overnight, but when a child's world is unsettled, their 'survival instinct' kicks in and 'what's in it for me' manifests.

    It's not conscious, it's not deliberate and it's not planned ahead. But it DOES happen.

    BunksKeromeVastmind
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    Even though there were challenges and some hard times when my parents split up, it was the best thing they could have done in the end. We all made it through and I think we are all happier for it. They are both with partners that have a lot to add to their life, and our families, and hey, my kids have more grandparents than they know what to do with anymore! You can never have too much support for kids, you never know what they need. It sounds like you and your ex are doing a good job.

    To go back to your original topic! I'm glad you are enjoying yourself. Being in relationships really does change us and sometimes we have to find ourselves again. Sometimes we can do that within them. And sometimes not.

    TiggerBunks
  • TiggerTigger Toronto, Canada Veteran

    @karasti said:
    my kids have more grandparents than they know what to do with anymore!

    At the end of every storm the sun will shine. I say this because even after an ordeal like a break up more love was found for the children then was there before.

    Bunkskarasti
  • ZenCanuckZenCanuck Toronto, ON Explorer

    @federica said:
    Because Toronto is an abbreviation. The real name of the city is Torontojohntomicktonicktolarrytoharrytodaytomorrow.

    It's a dating nightmare because guys never stick around for more than 24 hours.

    24 hours?!?!?! How the hell did you manage to find a long-term relationship in Toronto?!?! #jealous
    :)

    lobsterTigger
  • ZenCanuckZenCanuck Toronto, ON Explorer

    @Dakini said:

    @ZenCanuck said:

    Single now, wish I wasn't, but not losing sleep over it either...I've got a lot of other richness in my life, and Toronto is pretty much a vast wasteland for singles of any age. I'm only half-joking when I say I'm thinking of advertising for an American man who would like to marry his way into Canada to avoid the Trumpocalypse ;)

    I've run into that idea on other internet forums: that Toronto is terrible for dating. Why is that? There are so many singles complaining about it, that it can't be due to a dearth of singles. What's going on over there?

    My experience is that Toronto guys have zero interest in women. They have normal romantic/sexual inclinations if they're gay - they're attracted to men - but seriously? Women are invisible to non-gay Toronto guys. They have zero game, zero interest, and can't be bothered to even pay attention on a coffee date. I don't even waste time on them. They have zero interest in me, and I'm not interested in potted plants.

    Men have told me that the women here are bitchy and cold and that may be true - I don't date women. I can see where they'd think that, actually...

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @ZenCanuck said:

    @Dakini said:

    @ZenCanuck said:

    Single now, wish I wasn't, but not losing sleep over it either...I've got a lot of other richness in my life, and Toronto is pretty much a vast wasteland for singles of any age. I'm only half-joking when I say I'm thinking of advertising for an American man who would like to marry his way into Canada to avoid the Trumpocalypse ;)

    I've run into that idea on other internet forums: that Toronto is terrible for dating. Why is that? There are so many singles complaining about it, that it can't be due to a dearth of singles. What's going on over there?

    My experience is that Toronto guys have zero interest in women. They have normal romantic/sexual inclinations if they're gay - they're attracted to men - but seriously? Women are invisible to non-gay Toronto guys. They have zero game, zero interest, and can't be bothered to even pay attention on a coffee date. I don't even waste time on them. They have zero interest in me, and I'm not interested in potted plants.

    Men have told me that the women here are bitchy and cold and that may be true - I don't date women. I can see where they'd think that, actually...

    Do you suppose the one attitude creates the other? That a warm, caring woman would attract more attention from these Toronto guys, or that Toronto guys acquiring some romantic drive would warm up some of the ladies?

    karasti
  • TiggerTigger Toronto, Canada Veteran

    @ZenCanuck said:
    My experience is that Toronto guys have zero interest in women. They have normal romantic/sexual inclinations if they're gay - they're attracted to men - but seriously? Women are invisible to non-gay Toronto guys. They have zero game, zero interest, and can't be bothered to even pay attention on a coffee date. I don't even waste time on them. They have zero interest in me, and I'm not interested in potted plants.

    Toronto is a city of ego's, baggage and desire and there lies the problem. Everyone thinks they're better than everyone else and a little on the grouchy side. You can't have a meaningful and long-term relationship in an environment like that. I think the men here are the same as the women but it depends on your experience.

    My advise is to go places (online or in person) you have never thought of going to find someone. I'm hoping your not trying in bars because we all know where that goes.

    Good Luck @ZenCanuck

    ZenCanuck
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @Tigger the entire US is that way and quite a lot of people still manage to be in relationships. Maybe because we accept we are all like that instead of assuming we are all the one person who is different and everyone else is simply unacceptable (only partly kidding :lol: ) But more seriously, if the problem is everyone thinks they are better than everyone else, and yet at the same time you said that everyone is full of baggage, desire and grouchy, doesn't that kind of make you another one of those people that thinks you are better than the rest of them?

    I know 2 people from Toronto, and they are amazingly deep people who live rich and fulfilling lives. They are very motivated, incredibly friendly and kind. Perhaps others aren't finding them because they are too busy making assumptions about everyone.

    Bunks
  • TiggerTigger Toronto, Canada Veteran

    I agree @karasti. I live in Toronto and have been in a very good relationship for 9 years now so it happens and will continue to happen. I wasn't implying everyone in Toronto is that way but it is what it is.

  • TiggerTigger Toronto, Canada Veteran

    And to add @karasti, I HAVE been trying to have your point of view but it's hard sometimes here

  • SpinyNormanSpinyNorman It's still all old bollocks Veteran

    @Bunks said:
    An interesting observation I've made over the last couple of months - people assume that because I am single I must be lonely or sad? Especially women. I've observed some envy from men :)

    There have been moments (especially early on) but my overwhelming feeling has been relief and freedom!

    In my experience too many couples stay together for the wrong reasons.

    ShoshinBunks
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @Tigger I think it's hard everywhere, when a whole culture of a city or country is contrary to your own belief system. But there are lots of people out there who share similar views. You just aren't going to find them by participating in the parts of the culture you don't like. One of my Toronto friends is a single woman in her upper 20s and she struggles in the dating scene as well. She asked on FB a bit ago why men aren't interested in listening but only want to talk about themselves. She takes it as an affront to herself (which it may or may not be) but always only looking at the other side never solves the problems because you can't control any of them. She goes to bars to look for potential partners, but hates bars. She is a musician and a professional opera singer. She's running into trouble, I think, because she is looking for people in areas she doesn't even like. If you hate bars, drinking and going out, why would you look for someone in a bar? And then complain that they aren't enough like you? Just saying it's more helpful to look at ourselves and our thoughts and actions than always those of other people.

    Bunks
  • TiggerTigger Toronto, Canada Veteran

    I don't disagree with anything you're saying @karasti. I was just making a comment about why she may be having trouble and some things have noticed. I am still learning how to let go of the labels and look inward rather than labelling people and looking outward judging people =)

    I agree with you 100%

    Bunksupekkalobster
  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @Tigger said:
    I am still learning how to let go of the labels and look inward rather than labelling people and looking outward judging people =)

    as far as my understanding of Buddha's Teaching so far, you are on the Right track

    lobsterBunks
  • TiggerTigger Toronto, Canada Veteran

    Thanks @upekka =) One day at a time is a good pace for me. It has been difficult to let go of my conditioning but I see it happen little by little with every beautiful quote I read, post I read on this forum and page I read from the Dharma. After all, it is a path and will take some time to get to my destination, whatever that may be.

    upekka
  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @Tigger by reading Dhamma books, articles, discussing Dhamma, listening to Dhamma and thinking of what we have read, listened and discussed is also conditioning 'ourselves'
    we put positive conditioning over negative conditioning

    yes, it is the beginning of the Path

    we do not remember how long we have been doing this (walking on the path)
    so we never know when will be the destination
    it might be next moment or next year or any future time

    important thing is to walk on the Path with positive conditioning until we know how to stop conditioning, which is called Stream-entry

    then we know exactly what we have to do
    <3

    lobsterTigger
  • ZenCanuckZenCanuck Toronto, ON Explorer

    @Tigger said:

    Toronto is a city of ego's, baggage and desire and there lies the problem. Everyone thinks they're better than everyone else and a little on the grouchy side. You can't have a meaningful and long-term relationship in an environment like that. I think the men here are the same as the women but it depends on your experience.

    My advise is to go places (online or in person) you have never thought of going to find someone. I'm hoping your not trying in bars because we all know where that goes.

    Good Luck @ZenCanuck

    I'm not trying anywhere, actually. I gave up on online awhile back and don't do the bar scene. Actually, I'm getting involved with local Buddhist groups not just to promote my own spiritual evolution but hopefully to meet some nice men who, because they're working on themselves, may be less likely to be as blindly avoidant as the men on online services - men who want to be in a relationship but don't understand themselves, their insecurities, or their motivations and so cycle through relationships never understanding what went wrong.

    The guy doesn't have to be Buddhist...just someone working on himself and looking inward.

    Tigger
  • ZenCanuckZenCanuck Toronto, ON Explorer

    @Kerome said:

    Do you suppose the one attitude creates the other? That a warm, caring woman would attract more attention from these Toronto guys, or that Toronto guys acquiring some romantic drive would warm up some of the ladies?

    Maybe? Who knows? Working on become the former in hopes of attracting the latter. I'll let y'all know how that goes ;)

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @Bunks said:
    An interesting observation I've made over the last couple of months - people assume that because I am single I must be lonely or sad? Especially women. I've observed some envy from men :)

    You have a wholesome attitude....when it comes to your ex partner and her happiness...

    As you know @Bunks If you make friends with your 'self,( find the peace that lies within) you will never be alone (no longer fearful of your own thoughts)

    There have been moments (especially early on) but my overwhelming feeling has been relief and freedom!

    That's good @Bunks ...Enjoy your own company thoughts, warts and all but remain open enough to share with others if the situation should arise...( If the desire should take you)....

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    @Shoshin said:

    @Bunks said:
    An interesting observation I've made over the last couple of months - people assume that because I am single I must be lonely or sad? Especially women. I've observed some envy from men :)

    You have a wholesome attitude....when it comes to your ex partner and her happiness...

    As you know @Bunks If you make friends with your 'self,( find the peace that lies within) you will never be alone (no longer fearful of your own thoughts)

    There have been moments (especially early on) but my overwhelming feeling has been relief and freedom!

    That's good @Bunks ...Enjoy your own company thoughts, warts and all but remain open enough to share with others if the situation should arise...( If the desire should take you)....

    Thanks @shoshin.

    Funnily enough I got an email from one of the parents in my daughter's class a few days ago with regard to a picnic for all the parents and kids in her class next weekend before the school year commences.

    Not sure if you recall but my ex wife left me for one of the fathers in my daughter's class.

    So all of a sudden I am faced with the prospect of seeing him and all the other parents in her class who obviously know what has happened.

    This has brought up a fair bit of anger and aversion. I am embarrassed about seeing the other parents and I just don't really want to see her new boyfriend for the obvious reasons.

    It is rare that I am happy that my daughter is anti social but I was happy when I asked yesterday and she said she didn't want to go.

    But I can't avoid this forever.

    I am trying to use the anger and aversion to meditate on the Emptiness of the I with some success. Silver linings I guess.....

    You'll probably see some more rantings from me over the next wee while :)

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    I am thinking that if it's my turn to have the kids and my daughter wants to go to a school party I am going to have to suck it up and go for her sake.

    I have made it clear to my ex about how I feel and she is understanding.

  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Bunks said:
    I am thinking that if it's my turn to have the kids and my daughter wants to go to a school party I am going to have to suck it up and go for her sake.

    I have made it clear to my ex about how I feel and she is understanding.

    You are SO handling this better than I would.

    Don't forget @Bunks that it's ok to be angry in this situation. You are dealing with it rather skilfully my friend. I wish I'd had someone counsel me to adopt this attitude during my divorce.

    _ /\ _

    Steve_B
  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    @Bunks said:
    I am thinking that if it's my turn to have the kids and my daughter wants to go to a school party I am going to have to suck it up and go for her sake.

    I have made it clear to my ex about how I feel and she is understanding.

    wow...I think I would find that quite a challenge; I didn't catch how old your daughter is, btw. Maybe she's not wanting to go for a couple of reasons: 1. She just doesn't feel like it, and 2. She feels your discomfort. I think it's ok to accept that she really doesn't want to go and just not go, but you might want to open up that conversation with her and be as open and honest with her as you seem to be with us. You also might want to ask your daughter to mention it to mom - or not. Let people think what they want.

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    Thanks @dhammachick.

    I am mainly doing it for the kids. I don't want them to see animosity between my ex and I.

    The fact we weren't in love anymore has made it easier too.

    I still have a bit to work through though emotionally.

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    @silver said:

    @Bunks said:
    I am thinking that if it's my turn to have the kids and my daughter wants to go to a school party I am going to have to suck it up and go for her sake.

    I have made it clear to my ex about how I feel and she is understanding.

    wow...I think I would find that quite a challenge; I didn't catch how old your daughter is, btw. Maybe she's not wanting to go for a couple of reasons: 1. She just doesn't feel like it, and 2. She feels your discomfort. I think it's ok to accept that she really doesn't want to go and just not go, but you might want to open up that conversation with her and be as open and honest with her as you seem to be with us. You also might want to ask your daughter to mention it to mom - or not. Let people think what they want.

    Thanks @silver. My daughter is six. It is nothing to do with my discomfort. I would say about 80% of the time she refrains from attending school things. She likes being at home. Always has.

    She understands the idea of my ex and I separating but she is too young for me to start telling her why I am uncomfortable with attending school things.

    I say that I intend going to school things when required but when push comes to shove I am not entirely convinced I will.

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