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Low Carb High Fat...

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Comments

  • SocairSocair Veteran

    Question as I am interested in LCHF. My family have a history of high cholesterol. If I try LCHF will my cholesterol be raised. Or is doctors measure of cholesterol no longer up to speed with current science in relation to heart disease etc

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2017

    Forget cholesterol. Cholesterol has been painted as a 'bad' guy, but providing you follow a good diet, you'll be fine. Since beginning LCHF, my cholesterol count has persistently read below 5mmo/L.

    Personally, I strongly recommend a LCHF lifestyle. However, I am definitely not medically qualified, but if you were to ask someone who is, judging by an awful lot of comments and feedback on another forum, most Doctors would tell you that 'cutting carbs' is a bad idea, and that increasing fats is a bad one.

    I can show you a thousand comments from people who would definitely prove doctors wrong.

    Socair
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    edited April 2017

    cholesterol is made by the body and is minimally impacted by consuming cholesterol. It is actually made in excess by the body in reaction to a high carb/high sugar diet. It is kind of like the tar they use to fill potholes. Sugar damages your vascular system, and your body creates cholesterol, in part, to repair that damage. So it goes along patching the damage. But just like the potholes, it is not as good as the original and over time it causes issues that contribute to clogged arteries.

    One of the big problems is that western diets manage the fat/carb combination horribly. Not only do we eat too many carbs and way too much refined sugar, but we also eat bad fats. it's an awful combination. The body cannot easily deal with both. Too many carbs means they get stored as fat and because the body isn't trained to use fat as energy, that gets stored, too. It's a double whammy. When you remove carbs from the equation (largely) the body much better deals with saturated fats. Just make sure your diet stays balanced and you eat a lot of healthy fats - plant oils, avocados, grass fed dairy if you can find and afford it, etc. Don't eat too much processed meat. It is very strange initially to eat all the stuff we've been told so long is bad for us. But it's not true. The study that that was all based on was no good, almost as bad as the autism study that faked results to make people believe vaccines cause autism. We've been lied to the entire time. It really is all about insulin and how it works in the body under optimal conditions versus under our current western diet. It has a huge impact on how our body deals with fat.

    This reviews 23 different studies and provides the results. You can see yourself the response the blood work had in most of these cases (some did not measure the same things so it's not as apparent)
    https://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

    Socair
  • SocairSocair Veteran

    Thanks @federica and @karasti . Im going to look into beginning a LCHF eating plan.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2017

    My daughter - after having seen the results in both my husband and me - has decided to go the same way. She 'stole' my Dr Jason Fung books.... She's keen, I'll give her that.... she only started yesterday, and she checks every label already! She's expressed horror at the carb content of so many foods....

  • SocairSocair Veteran

    @federica im eager to get started. I am certain processed sugar is at the root of many of our modern illnesses including certain cancers.. i definitely need to get my carb and sugar intake under control

  • SocairSocair Veteran

    I dont smoke or drink alcohol and am relatively fit but certainly sweet food and carbs are my weakness. Would Dr Jason Fung books be a good starting point?

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    It really is incredible how many carbs are in the majority of what people tend to eat. I always look what people have in their carts at the store, and it's no wonder we have the issues we do. My oldest son loooves Olive Garden. It's just disgusting to me how many carbs there are, especially with the addition of the free breadsticks. Each one is 20g. Most people eat 3-4. Then they eat a pasta meal that is 3 cups (each cup of pasta is 42g of carbs). It almost makes me sick to watch people eat.

    federicaSocair
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    ^^ This! ^^ I feel the same way - and miraculously, so does Hubby!!

  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    sits in the corner eating non LCHF food and feeling fat

    federicakarastiTosh
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I'd give it a bash, if I were you. It can only do you Good!

    Socair
  • SocairSocair Veteran

    Are LCHF and keto diets similar/related?

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Keto is LCHF. LCHF may or may not be keto. I do not strictly follow keto but happen to usually be in ketosis when I bother to check. I eat more like 50g of carbs while most keto people stick to 20-30g. 30g is the number normally thrown around that keeps a person in ketosis which will have a faster fat burning effect. I imagine the threshhold varies by person. If it's really important to you to be in ketosis, you can get strips you pee on to check ;) Our son already has them as a diabetic, so once in a while I borrow one since he rarely uses them and they expire, :lol: If we didn't already have them though I wouldn't buy them. I find that being over anal about what I'm eating ruins eating for me.

    There are some things I don't want to give up forever so I'll take slower weight loss over not giving up some fruit and yogurt. Basically someone in keto avoids carb foods entirely. Because when you eat meat, eggs, cheese etc there is always a small amount of carb. So even what appears to be a carb free meal, might have 5-8g of carbs no matter what you do. So they stick to residual carbs from those foods and things like leafy greens and avoid everything else. For my own needs, I don't think giving up fruit or yogurt is going to make me healthier. My body seems to need a bit of both, so I go with what my body needs as long as the choice is a healthy one. I don't go around eating a whole pineapple or anything, lol.

    Socair
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2017

    If it's any help, this is my dietary guideline for daily consumption which I'm actually getting quite good at sticking to...

    Calories -1275 composed of:

    Carbohydrates 16 g - 5 % Daily intake

    Fat 92 g - 65 % Daily intake

    Protein 96 g - 30 % Daily intake

    Socair
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    The calorie intake really doesn't interest me much; the calorie count (as discussed previously in this thread) is merely a numerical calculation, but takes no account of how beneficial or constructive those calories are. So you have 'count' but no 'information'. Therefore, although I occasionally exceed calories, it's by ingesting the right things....

    The carbs - I can go to 20g happily, but make sure I don't exceed that....
    Protein, I try to keep fairly stable, or just below.
    Fat - if the count is a bit over, I'm really not bothered by that....

    Socair
  • SocairSocair Veteran

    @federica said:
    If it's any help, this is my dietary guideline for daily consumption which I'm actually getting quite good at sticking to...

    Calories -1275 composed of:

    Carbohydrates 16 g - 5 % Daily intake

    Fat 92 g - 65 % Daily intake

    Protein 96 g - 30 % Daily intake

    @federica . Thank you, very much appreciated!

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    We had to throw out EVERY - SINGLE - PAIR of trousers my husband owned. 11 pairs of trousers (pants, to many of youz guys), jeans, shorts - all gone to a Charity shop. He now has just 2 pairs of jeans.
    His shirts are a comedy too... My mother gave him 2 quite expensive, Italian shirts many years ago, the top button of which has been a perpetual stranger to its button hole. No longer! The two met for the first time yesterday - with room to spare!!

    I bought myself a really nice pair of jeans, UK size 10. Hah. Already too wide at the waist; although still quite snug, I have to keep pulling them up....

    Had to reset my calorie counter to 1175. Simply wasn't meeting fat/protein targets, and tbh, to do so, was over-eating - I simply wasn't hungry enough to keep to the previous tally of 1275cal/day.... Honestly, this WOL is keeping me happily sated and cheerily slim!

    karasti
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    My husband is the same. He just bought new work pants a month or so ago and looks like a clown in them, they are going to have to be replaced very soon. My weight loss is going well but my birthing hips don't keep me going through the clothing quite as much as he does. It's funny to note the patterns where inches are lost. Some go quickly, some slowly, some not at all. I am down almost 6 inches in my belly in 8 weeks, so that is nice! It is nice to see my body regain the shape that it's meant to have.

    The curious side of me wishes I understood the exact biological happenings of why with this last child I gained extra and couldn't lose. With the other 2, I gained my textbook 22-24 pounds and lost it within 6 weeks or so. With the last child (who is 8 now) I gained 40 pounds despite a healthier diet and more exercise and never lost it despite immsense effort. It makes me wonder if that apparently screwed hormonal up state in my body had to do with that child having diabetes. There was a lot of stress in our lives at that point so that probably contributed.

    My 1500 calories is overall working out ok. Yesterday I didn't really come close, but it was a stormy day so I spent much of the day reading so it balanced out with my activity level. There are definitely times I am lower on calorie intake because to make myself get to that goal I'd have to overeat. It's amazing to me that the standard in the US for recommended calorie intake is 2000. The average person does NOT need that much.

    I started 3 months ago with 75g of carbs, dropped to 56g for April and now down to 32g from here on out. I doubt I will drop much lower than that so I can keep a little fruit and yogurt in there ;) Especially for our summer berry season! We are experimenting this week with low carb pizza crust since that is the one thing be both miss, it gets rave reviews online, so we'll see how that goes. Made with almond flour which fetches a high price around here. A veggie pizza sounds amazing right now :love:

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I STILL haven't made that Fathead pizza, but my H is keen tot try it. I'll make some during the week.... I hear it's tasty. If you come back with a good verdict, I'll definitely cobble one together next weekend.... if your reviews aren't as 'rave', well.... we shall try it anyway, just to say - we tried it!
    Still love 90-second bread with added chia seeds!

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    We are trying it tonight so I will let you know how it goes!

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    @federica High marks for the pizza. We kept it thin crust, but next time will not go quite so thin. The areas that were a bit thicker had a new chewy texture instead of so much crunch so next time, a little less rolling. It's nice to eat something that can easily pass for pizza on a crust that passes for whole wheat/whole grain. I just had cheese because I forgot to grab pizza veggies at the store. The crust packs a punch for filling. I was surprised how full I got from 2 pieces, so there is that to be aware of, lol.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Thanks for the review, @karasti! I'm definitely going to try this, then.... watch this space....! :D

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    This was a post on a LCHF forum I touch base in now and then.
    I thought it was witty and very very true for the most part, (although I can say, hand on heart that not ALL of it applies to my situation...) so I thought I'd share....

    "Things I have learnt on a Keto WoE:

    1. Read labels - the per 100g bit, not the per serving bit. A lot of products will scream 0 carb - but it's only 0 carb per serving.

    2. A serving of nuts is not many.

    3. Keto is great for health (diabetes, inflammation, epilepsy, long term food control issues, migraines to name a few) but it is NOT magic. You still need to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight. Yes you do, don't argue. Some of you can naturally eat at a calorie deficit due to reduced hunger, but you are the lucky ones. Every single day here and on FB someone posts "omg I'm working so hard I've been under 20g carbs every day for 3 weeks and I've lost no weight, I've even gained weight, Keto doesn't work I quit". I guarantee, 99.9% of these people are eating too much. If it's you, go and track properly for a couple of weeks and see where you're at.

    4. Cheese is my favourite food in the world, but if I ate as much as I wanted I would not have any calories left over for food.

    5. Adding extra fat to your diet is not that great an idea. Some, yes, but it's not necessary to eat fat bombs and butter to "make up your fat". The more you eat the less you'll lose off your body.

    6. As above, the answer to a weight loss stall is not "eat more fat".

    7. Some artificial sweeteners are okay, sometimes. Sugar alcohols are not free though - a lot of people metabolise up to 50% as sugar. I am one of those people. They're great if you want to go to the bathroom though.

    8. Salt is a necessity. All the salt on all the food. Otherwise you will end up feeling bleh.

    9. Go easy on the saturated fat. After 4 years of bacon and butter my cholesterol has gone from normal to through the roof. I can't help but regret my decision to have a BPC every morning. I'm doing much better without it and getting fats from fish, avocado and olive oil.

    10. Weight loss is not linear - you can stay the same for a few weeks, lose and gain the same 2lb forever but a 90lb loss over 4 years is fine with me.

    11. Whatever style of eating you choose, make sure it's one you can live with. I always thought of the decision to become Keto was similar to when someone decides to be vegetarian etc. This is my eating style, not a diet.

    12. You do NOT need to eat at Keto levels if you do not have a health reason to do so. You can do just as well with the hunger and the cravings and the weight loss eating 50 - 70g carbs a day, while enjoying a lot more vegetables and soluble fibre (also good for healthy heart and cholesterol levels). In fact increasing my carbs to this level has seen a loss of 4kg a month this last month compared to barely 1kg a month before.

    13. An evening snack is not evil. I skip breakfast and save 300 calories for after dinner. Works for me. I can lay on the couch and eat something and still lose weight.

    14. You don't need to drink 57000 glasses of water a day to lose weight. Drink when you're thirsty.

    15. The cheat mentality is your enemy. Do not 'think' cheat, do not 'do' cheat. Accept that as part of your life there will be days when you will eat a little more. Special occasions, dinners out. Make good choices, and continue with your plan the next day. Don't allow these occasions to be weekly, and don't complain if you overindulged and did not lose any weight. You get out what you put in.

    16. Don't lie to yourself and don't guess. Track your intake. All of it. Every bite and lick. Weigh it, don't use "1 cup" or "1 serving". If you can't be bothered tracking it, don't eat it (except in the case of #15 - where you may not be able to weigh and track).

    17. You can have a nice time in a social situation without stuffing your face.

    18. Losing weight is great in so many ways. Healthier, fitter, nicer clothes. But do not expect to have the smooth, perfect body of a supermodel, or for all of your life troubles to go away. You'll still be wonderful, complicated, imperfect you. And sometimes things will still suck.

    19. "Fake foods" - those cakes and pastas and deserts and breads and such that are meant to imitate carb foods, but without the carbs, are a minefield. They are okay SOMETIMES (like the keto cheesecake I always make at Xmas time) but they are not part of your daily diet. They encourage the habit, and are too easy to overindulge in.

    20. Other people's food is not my problem. I couldn't care less what other people eat, and I choose not to be tempted by it. You can only be tempted if you WANT something, and how can you want it when you know you're just going to undo everything you've worked for and fall back into old habits...?

    21. Similarly, my food is not other people's problem. No one wants to hear about my diet or how great low carb is (unless they specifically ask). I do not ask my vegan friend how her broccoli's going.

    22. Will power is not a thing. Lack of will power is not why I failed at low fat calorie controlled diets for 20 years. And will power is not why I have not failed at Keto/Low carb. Control over my hunger (from low carb) is the only reason I have been successful.

    23. I am not cured of my binge eating. I will never be cured. In the same way that heroine addict clean for 4 years can not have "just one fix". It's that serious. If I go out and buy a whole pizza and take it home and eat it I will eat every pizza ever made every day until I die. I proved this a couple of years ago, when I had surgery, and thought "I'll just eat whatever for the week I'm home recovering". I managed to stop eating 12 weeks later and 14kg heavier. I have control over my eating, as long as I continue to do what I am doing now.

    24. Weigh every day. Don't cry if you put on 2lbs. Track it on something like HappyScale so you can look at the trend for the month. The moment I stop getting on those scales is the moment I stop being vigilant. Next my food tracking will slip, and pretty soon a couple of weeks will have passed and I'm too scared to get on the scales because I'll have gained weight so what the hell I won't weight myself then it's not real and I'll gain back 10kg before I get up the courage. Why not. Yoyo dieting is fun, right?

    25. Internet studies are interesting. Science is cool. Attitudes have come a long way from the days when the earth was flat. But for every point of view you can find an opposing/supporting study on the internet. Many of them sound very credible and persuasive. Take them all with a grain of salt. Everyone has an agenda. Learn through common sense, trial and error and be willing to be flexible with what you think you know if there's evidence to the contrary.

    26. Everyone's different. Just because some 350lb guy on a forum says he loses 20lb a week on Keto does not mean you will. 1 to 2 lb a week is great. Guess what, some weeks you might lose 0.

    27. 3 days is not a stall. No change for 4 to 6 weeks may warrant a closer look at your tracking, or perhaps you need to do your profile again and drop your target down a bit. But a mild fluctuation? Over one day? Please....

    28. Op/Charity shops are a great place to get rid of your fat clothes and get some nice ones that fit you. It doesn't have to cost a fortune. And one of life's great joys is finding clothes you've had in the closet for years that never fit, but you liked them so you kept them, and guess what...? They fit now!

    29. The answer to "can I eat this" is always "set your macros in your MFP diary, put X food into your diary, and then decide". If you eat a food and it doesn't agree with you for whatever reason, don't eat it.

    30. And finally - you only get one life, make the most of it. Do you want to be fat and sick and complaining until you die, or do you want to enjoy what time you've been gifted? Jeesh, no brainer...!"

    mosquitoKerome
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    We are having keto cheesecake for hubby's birthday tonight. The batter tasted like cheesecake, so we'll see how it goes!
    It's always interesting to me when some people have problems with their saturated fat intake. Most of them tend to live on butter and bacon. BUT, most likely it was the bacon that was the issue and not the butter, especially if they are eating quality, grass-fed butter. From what I've read anyhow. Just as all calories aren't equal neither are all sources of fat, even saturated animal fats. She probably could have toned down the bacon. Processed meats are notoriously bad for people and I know so many low carbers who eat way too much of it. It is more likely the nature of those meats is the problem and not the butter or cream. Bacon especially because people char/crisp it, which increases their creation of free radicals. If you are eating 3-4 pieces of crispy bacon a day, there is a good chance it's going to cause you problem over time, and that the issue isn't the butter.
    I do think most keto people especially eat far too few plant foods. Almost all my carbs come from veggies. Too many people I know reserve their few carbs for a beer at the end of the day or whatever. They eat almost entirely eggs and meat and no veggies and to me that is severely lacking balance. Plants are extraordinarily important.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2017

    I'm not arguing with you at all on that one. I cannot envisage a lifetime of eating simply proteins and fats, with no added 'greens'.

    Yet, (bizarrely to me!) there is a 'school of thought' that truly advocates the total absence of any vegetable content in the diet, whatsoever!
    It's researched, it's not just a whim. There are lots of different sources that would seem to indicate that 'actually, no, vegetables are absolutely superfluous.'

    Personally, I love a Mediterranean diet, with lots of delicious vegetables and all done in many different ways, cooked or raw. I simply cannot devote even a month to just proteins!
    (On the LCHF forum, they're calling it 'Meativore Month' and there are many takers, but I'm sticking to what I know and love. Whatever they want to do, is up to them. I ain't commenting there one way or the other, but I'm reading, purely out of interest....)

    Purely for reference (I'm not agreeing one way or the other, I just know what I like...)

    http://www.rogermwilcox.com/vegetable/veg1.html

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/do-you-really-need-to-eat-vegetables-to-be-healthy/

    https://www.paleohacks.com/vegetables/vegetables-necessary-in-the-diet-3534

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/86068-eat-eating-vegetables/

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I think that veggies would be less of an issue if we were eating wild game more. I will check out your references. I think when the animals are getting adequate nutrition, we can then it get from them. But not if your meat is mostly coming from factory animals who eat nothing but corn/feed. I'm sure like all things it just varies by person, especially with regards to their genetic predisposition. People who are Inuit or other far north cultures probably are well adapted to no or few vegetables. Someone from a tropical area, less so.

    For me, I need veggies. I committed to keto specifically for the month of May to see how it went compared to the previous 2 months of low carb but not necessarily keto. Strictly out of vanity, we are going to Hawaii on June 2, lol. And man do I miss fruit. I still eat berries because of their higher fiber and lower sugar content but I miss pineapple, lol. I love summer for its bounty of fresh plant foods, and cannot wait for my garden to be growing! My ancestors are from a northern climate, but their climate was very similar to where I live now, which is why they immigrated here. Vegetables were mostly limited to root type and berries because that is what grows there. Our growing season is short and fairly cool, so we cannot grow most fruit, nuts, avocados etc. Because of the cold climate, my ancestors (and thus my grandparents as well) grew mostly starchy veggies. Potatoes, carrots, corn, peas etc. That's what grew at home and that's what grows in this climate, too. Thankfully greens do well so I grow kale, spinach, chard and some other things.

    Our bodies are so incredibly adaptable, I have no doubt certain cultures are able to get what they need from sources that others cannot and thus have less need for vegetables. But I think most sources of meat these days are pretty devoid of plant nutrition. For me, the difference is notable when I am not eating enough plant foods. But too many of them makes me gain weight even when calories are the same.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2017

    I think it pertinent to also consider just how much vegetables have advanced/changed since they were first considered as edible additions to a diet... carrots, lettuce, cauliflowers, so many are actually virtually unrecognisable when compared to what they originally looked like... And I would therefore guess that their composition and nutritive components are also very changed....and not always for the better, maybe....? It's possible why foraging is growing in popularity....

    (ETA: Is it 'less need' or 'fewer needs'...? :lol: ;) )

    karasti
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    That is very true. Plus the soil we use is often depleted of nutrients and even the water we use is full of crap. We are lucky to live in an area that has ample foraging opportunities. We pick enough berries to last the whole year during just one week in July. It's currently morel mushroom season so we are waiting on some rain today to get them going. It's just too bad it's so short, since it's winter here 6 months a year and everything is dead another 2 months on top of that!

    Less need, fewer needs? :lol:

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2017

    Talking of foraging, did you know very young bracken/fern shoots are edible? They're called 'fiddleheads' and I can't wait to try some - next year! From what I hear, the toxic elelents (carcinogens)( tend to become more concentrated and present, when the plant starts growing/unfurling, and the fronds develop. While still curled up and compact, the toxins are not so evident, although thorough cooking is recommended....

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Apparently, the better fern is the Ostrich, or Shuttlecock fern....

    https://fearlesseating.net/fiddleheads/

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    It is prime fern time here, actually. I should check that out. A friend just posted a picture of fiddleheads this morning. Of course, it is now expected to rain for 3 days straight!

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Ah, bless the good ol' weather! A newly-adopted saying round here, is "if you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes!" I'm kinda getting sick of the ol' "Oh, but we need it for the garden!" chestnut (even though, it's admittedly true).....

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2017

    Well, talk about being late to the party!
    I got to pondering just how calories were applied to foods, what they were, how they were calculated...

    Turns out that a Calorie (kcal) is the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of 1 kilogram of water 1 degree Celsius.

    "However, a system of measuring calories in foods had to be devised.
    The original method used to determine the number of kcals in a given food, directly measured the energy it produced.The food was placed in a sealed container surrounded by water; an apparatus known as a "bomb calorimeter". The food was completely burned and the resulting rise in water temperature was measured. However, this method is not frequently used today.

    Most of the calorie values in industry food tables are based on an indirect calorie estimation made using the so-called 'Atwater System'.

    In this system, calories are not determined directly by burning the foods. Instead, the total caloric value is calculated by adding up the calories provided by the energy-containing nutrients: protein, carbohydrate, fat and alcohol. Because carbohydrates contain some fibre that is not digested and utilised by the body, the fibre component is usually subtracted from the total carbohydrate before calculating the calories.

    The Atwater System uses the average values of:
    4 Kcal/g for protein,
    4 Kcal/g for carbohydrate, and
    9 Kcal/g for fat.

    (Alcohol is calculated at 7 Kcal/g.)

    (These numbers were originally determined by burning and then averaging.)

    Thus the label on an energy bar that contains:
    10 g of protein (10g x 4 kcal = 40 kcal),
    20 g of carbohydrate (20g x 4 kcal = 80 kcal) and
    9 g of fat (9g x 9 kcal = 81 kcal)

    would read 201 kcals or Calories."

    Fascinating!!

    (In the interests of clarity, I didn't write all of the above myself. I gleaned and abridged it off a scientific website recounting the origin and history of the calorie. The above text was interspersed with acres of information on joules, and other heat measurements mostly to do with calculations in Physics and Chemistry.)

    Jeffreykarasti
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited June 2017

    @federica as a chemist that was wonderful! The fuels have a lot of carbon carbon and carbon hydrogen bonds and they burn (or in body stepwise enzymatic reactions doing same thing) to form water and carbon dioxide to form relatively stronger carbon oxygen and hydrogen oxygen bonds. When you form strong bonds that releases energy. But that isn't what makes it spontaneous (after igniting or with the enzymes initiating). Spontaneity needs entropy in the universe overall to increase and in this case you are making a gas (carbon dioxide) which is more entropic than solids or liquids and also releasing heat to surroundings raising the entropy of surroundings. So entropy system and surroundings both increase so entropy universe increases and is spontaneous!

    So in that example system and surroundings have entropy increase but it can also be both system and surroundings entropy decreases so does not happen in nature (but like a battery could make happen but then the battery must be increasing in entropy). And then system could be one way and surrounding the opposite like water boiling takes energy out of surrounding making the surrounding more ordered (less random motion) but making the liquid into more entropic gas and in those cases it can be spontaneous or not depending on the temperature.

    karasti
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Oh @Jeffrey , darling, darling Jeffrey...! You lost me at "...that was wonderful!" :D
    I wish I was sufficiently scientific to comprehend all that, but I was a dismal failure at school! I would have loved to have been a Forensic Scientist, but I was dead at the starting line...!

    So I took Eng. Lit/Lang, French, Italian, Art and History! Bit of a diversion!

    Jeffrey
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    it is quite fascinating. I just learned that bit about what a calorie actually measures very recently, too!

    Just got back from 10 days of vacation, in which I did not explicitly stick with my low carb diet, and was pleased I still lost a pound. No doubt due to an extreme calorie deficit every day. It took a while to adjust to the time change, and we were extremely busy in a hot climate. Most days burning 4000-5000 calories and lucky if I took in 1800 because I had no appetite, lol. We ate a special dinner one night and I splurged on a prawn and asparagus risotto, proscuitto wrapped goat cheese AND cheesecake and passion fruit gelato. It was like 125 grams of carbs, I was surprised I didn't feel like crap the next day, lol.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2017

    Carb-Loaded: A Culture dying to eat.

    It should be noted that the first quarter to third of this video deals specifically with the SAD - Standard American Diet (and where it all went horribly wrong) but the whole film - on the whole - is hugely international and pretty much pertinent to personal health, no matter where you come from.

    So it's a small portion of history, and a larger portion of "Oh my God....!"

    karasti
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Kefir.
    Amazing stuff.
    I drink it every day.
    I also make it myself, because I ordered some Kefir Grains online.

    I thought the amount I received was frankly, measly and ungenerous.
    In 6 days, I had quadrupled the original amount.....

    Weird stuff.
    Which is probably why we get on so well.....

    Socair
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    Is it humanly possible to make a synopsis for her nibs here, who is appalled at the idea of reading five pages of comments given the pile of books I have to swallow?

    So: I consume a lot of coconut oil, vegan spreads, protein bread, few carbs and when, mostly wholemeal.
    I love to lace my coffee with a splash of milk, a teaspoon of coconut oil and a teaspoon of MCT oil.
    I drink bucketfuls of green tea and water with lemon wedges.
    Meat sporadically, more frequently eggs.
    I follow the 5:2 intermittent fasting and lost almost six kilos in three months.

    Given my fledgling hypertension condition: am I doing fine, what should I add, leave out?
    What are the main tenets of High Fat, Low Carb?
    Biggest thank you <3

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    @DhammaDragon It varies so much. I personally get most of my fats from dairy and plants. But you will find people on LCHF diets who live on bacon and processed meat. Yeah, they lose weight, but I wouldn't recommend that personally. Generally speaking, it consists of high fat, moderate protein and low carb. It's a bit different for each person. I eat about 10% carbs, 25% protein and 65% fat.

    I really can't speak to hypertension in particular. Healthy fats from olives, avocados, nuts of varying sorts (some have quite a few carbs), cheese, eggs, coconut oil and heavy cream are my main sources (I put the cream in my coffee but not much else). I keep my carbs low, just because I gain weight (at this point anyway) as soon as they stay consistently above 75 grams or so. So because of that, i do keep track right now because I am still losing weight. Because of hypertension, salty nuts might not be very good, but unsalted should be fine. I eat a lot of green veggies, usually with every meal. I try to stick to grass fed dairy (but it's not always available here). @federica has done a lot of reading so she might have some more immediate references for hypertension.

    DhammaDragon
  • gracklegrackle Veteran

    @DhammaDragon. Being prehypertensive I declined the medications offered by the VA. Instead I supplement with L=Argenine. Which is one of the essential amino acids. Your arteries are comprised of 4 layers of tissue. L=Arginine helps relax the innermost layer. Which is the layer that becomes less flexible as we age. It works well for me. I use it in a format that offers sustained plus immediate release. The only other idea would be the DASH diet. Which is dietary approaches to stop hypertension. Best of luck.

    DhammaDragonSocair
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    Thank you, @grackle <3

    @karasti: I have found that doing the intermittent fasting has completely regulated my weight.
    On non-fasting days, even if I indulge in a dish of pasta or a pizza, I consistently lose weight or keep it low.
    Fe de errata: with 5:2 IF, I lost almost four kilos in three months, not 6 as I wrote above.
    I try not to eat too many carbs, though, because I feel awfully bloated and lethargic for hours afterwards.

    I am definitely not a bacon person, but now that barbecue season begins, and hubby loves to grill sausages, I'll feel less guilty.
    We usually eat salads as side dish, anyway.

    My only quibble with dairy is that a scientific study found a co-relation between dairy products consumption and breast cancer.
    Apparently, women in Asian countries, where consumption of dairy is low, suffer less from breast cancer as women in the West.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2017

    @DhammaDragon said:
    Thank you, @grackle <3

    @karasti: I have found that doing the intermittent fasting has completely regulated my weight.
    On non-fasting days, even if I indulge in a dish of pasta or a pizza, I consistently lose weight or keep it low.
    Fe de errata: with 5:2 IF, I lost almost four kilos in three months, not 6 as I wrote above.
    I try not to eat too many carbs, though, because I feel awfully bloated and lethargic for hours afterwards.

    I am definitely not a bacon person, but now that barbecue season begins, and hubby loves to grill sausages, I'll feel less guilty.
    We usually eat salads as side dish, anyway.

    My only quibble with dairy is that a scientific study found a co-relation between dairy products consumption and breast cancer.
    Apparently, women in Asian countries, where consumption of dairy is low, suffer less from breast cancer as women in the West.

    First word: Cut out carbohydrates: Pasta, bread, rice, potatoes.
    Cakes, sweets, chocolate, croissants, doughnuts, carb-laden treats.
    In my opinion, they are complete poison. (I knew and believed this before I saw the above video ("Carb loaded; a culture dying to eat") and the video compounds and proves my point.

    If you do not do this, then expect a worsening of your condition and an insistent increase of medication from your doctors.

    I repeat: By cutting out carbs, my H has not only divested himself of Diabetes 2, he has also dramatically improved his Hypertension/Blood pressure.

    As ever, don't just take my word for it.

    https://www.atkins.com/how-it-works/library/articles/low-carb-more-effective-in-lowering-blood-pressure-than-low-fat-and-orlistat

    http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/01January/Pages/Low-carb-diets-and-blood-pressure.aspx

    https://docmuscles.com/2016/07/04/how-fat-lowers-your-blood-pressure/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3680768/

    You will still get a carb amount from vegetables and other food products.

    But the main starchy, simple carbs are the noxious ones.

    You have a far greater chance of doing your health lasting damage by continuing to consume carbs, than you will in consuming dairy products.
    Evidence of this is both scant and unreliable.

    _A pooled analysis of data from more than 20 studies found no link between dairy product intake (including milk, cheese and yogurt) and breast cancer risk [4]. However, data from the Nurses' Health Study II found that women who ate two or more servings of high-fat dairy products (like whole milk or butter) every day had a higher risk of breast cancer before menopause [5].

    At this time, it appears unlikely that eating or drinking dairy products is linked to the risk of breast cancer after menopause. However, more research is needed to draw solid conclusions about a possible link with the risk of breast cancer before menopause._

    From here.

    And this is an article from April of this year:

    http://www.maurerfoundation.org/do-dairy-products-increase-risk-for-breast-cancer/

    If you want to avoid the associated health risks of hypertension, stop eating simple carbs.

    Plain and simple.

    DhammaDragonSocair
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    Chocolate, Fede? 🐉😢

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @DhammaDragon I know.

    But I haven't touched a single bar of chocolate in just over 3 months.
    Miss it?
    Absolutely not.

    I tried 70% cocoa dark chocolate. While great for cooking, it just doesn't have the same appeal.
    So I've ditched chocolate.
    No ill-effects, no problems, no worries no miss at all.

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    Well, I do love 70% cocoa and plus, Fede...
    Unfortunately I discovered a white chocolate with matcha that I also love.
    But I really control myself: I can manage to eat just a couple of squares... most times...

    Socair
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    If you can control yourself that far, a touch more won't hurt.
    Get rid of it.
    You don't need it.
    Carbohydrates are completely unnecessary to anyone's diet.

    And I got that from both a Doctor, and a retired athlete, whose entire career was originally founded on ingesting carbs, because he thought he needed them.

    The reason we love fats and sugar (combined in sweet treats, exactly like chocolate!) is because there is only one single food product that occurs naturally in Nature, which is 50/50 fat and sugar: Mother's milk.

    So we are programmed from the word 'go' to gravitate towards such a pleasurable intake.
    But it's one thing to enjoy mother's milk (which naturally also contains other vital elements for a baby's growth and well-being) it's quite another to enjoy the combination of fats and sugar in man-made products.
    The amount we eat, and the effect it has on us, is nothing short of a global disaster.

    Moderation may well be good.
    Elimination is better.

    I'm not moving my goalposts on this one, @DhammaDragon.
    It's all or nothing, I'm afraid.

    DhammaDragonSocair
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    @DhammaDragon On occassion when I crave chocolate, I make fat bomb chocolate mousse, lol. cream cheese, some stevia or similar, cocoa powder, heavy cream (I can't recall what else, there are recipes online).

    I also wonder if the studies about dairy links to cancer separated grass fed natural dairy from factory farmed dairy. It would not surprise me to find it is mostly factory farmed that causes the problem because of the amount of medication the cows get to keep them from dying of infections or gut related problems due to the diets they are fed. My state does not allow the sale of raw milk. You can get it if you know a farmer who will get it to you but that is the only way. We live a long ways from cow territory in my state so that isn't a possibility for us. But we do use grass fed butter (which costs $10 a pound here, but with all the junk food I gave up that was easy, lol). Similar in difference to eggs from chickens that eat a natural diet versus a grain diet. I figure if I wanted to avoid most grains (which simply do not agree with me) I best avoid eating animal foods where the animals mostly consumed grains. I don't really drink milk, I try to make sure the carbs i eat come from really good sources (mostly veggies, some fruit, some yogurt) so giving 1/3 of my carb allotment to milk just isn't in the cards most days anyhow.

    DhammaDragon
  • SocairSocair Veteran
    edited June 2017

    Think broccoli....

    DhammaDragon
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    (Fixed the link for you....)

    Thanks for the info! It may well be the only way some Americans will take broccoli, given Bush Snr's detrimental comments and the subsequent effects on national consumption!

    Socair
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