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Low Carb High Fat...

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Comments

  • HozanHozan Veteran

    Hey @federica . Thank you! I need to learn to do that! One word being a hyperlink to the article. I am certain you posted instructions on how to do just that on another thread.....i'm off to locate that now....

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I love broccoli raw but cannot eat it cooked without it covered in copious amounts of cheese, lol. I don't like cooked spinach either but love it otherwise. Slightly cooked/wilted is ok. But cooked through. ugh. can't do it. Frozen and canned spinach are right out.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Hozan said:
    Hey @federica . Thank you! I need to learn to do that! One word being a hyperlink to the article. I am certain you posted instructions on how to do just that on another thread.....i'm off to locate that now....

    Here is some help. If it helps! :D

    Find the page you want to link.
    Copy the link address.
    Come back to your post:
    Highlight the word you want to use as your link-'carrier'.
    Click on the 'chainlink' symbol. You'll get a box appear with the http precursor.
    Paste address.
    hit 'ok.

    Hozan
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    @federica said:

    @Hozan said:
    Hey @federica . Thank you! I need to learn to do that! One word being a hyperlink to the article. I am certain you posted instructions on how to do just that on another thread.....i'm off to locate that now....

    Here is some help. If it helps! :D

    Find the page you want to link.
    Copy the link address.
    Come back to your post:
    Highlight the word you want to use as your link-'carrier'.
    Click on the 'chainlink' symbol. You'll get a box appear with the http precursor.
    Paste address.
    hit 'ok.

    Thank you kindly. I am looking forward to having tidier links going forward. I am a bit of a tidy nerd at times so this is a kind of secret thrill for me to be able to do this.....oops I've just told everyone haven't I.....doh!

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Don't worry. We're all nerds in one way or another. Take me and Grammar.
    Or Low-carb-High-Fat/Protein, for example...

    Bit of a soap-box....Or two..... ;)

    Hozan
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    Has anyone undertaking the LCHF path felt sick and had an upset stomach a few days after beginning?

    I read about the LC "flu" and it suggested it was due to a lack of salt.

    I drank a glass or two of salty water and it feels a bit better but the nausea keeps coming back.

    Thoughts? Happy to ride it out if need be.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    @Bunks It's not uncommon to feel poor for a few days. I got headaches and brain fog for ~5 days the first time I went low carb. Salt helped but didn't eliminate the symptoms. Within a week I felt completely fine. If it's too bothersome or doesn't resolve in a week you could try more gradually reducing carbs. That is what I did this second time and had virtually no side effects.
    If you added stuff to your diet you don't usually eat, it could be that causing a problem, too, so maybe look at if you added new foods and back off them or maybe mix up foods a bit more to see if that helps.

    Bunks
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    Ta @karasti - I have changed my diet quite drastically (I used to eat a lot of bread and rice) so I am sure this has to have an affect.

    I feel great apart from some nausea when I start to get hungry again. It's only been about the last three days (I started LCHF about six days ago).

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Yup, classic Keto flu. And salt-water alone won't fix it, you need an electrolyte drink - one which contains different elements and minerals your body may need.

    You can buy something like dyoralyte, or make your own....

    and drink at least 2l of ordinary water, daily.

    Bunks
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    @karasti said:
    I love broccoli raw but cannot eat it cooked without it covered in copious amounts of cheese, lol. I don't like cooked spinach either but love it otherwise. Slightly cooked/wilted is ok. But cooked through. ugh. can't do it. Frozen and canned spinach are right out.

    I love virtually anything baked and drowned under kilos of grated cheese, @karasti <3
    And spinach, only with cream...

    Well, I am not ready to part with my humble squares of chocolate yet.

    But today is my fasting day, one from twice a week and the programme goes something like:

    -coffee with a teaspoon of coconut oil for breakfast.
    -self-made vegetable soup and sardines for lunch.
    -leftover soup with a slice of Leerdammer cheese plus 100 gr cherry tomatoes.
    And litres of water lemon and green tea.

    It's not altogether LCHF but I bet auntie Fede should not complain...

    HozanBunks
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I wouldn't dream of it.

    Whatever floats your boat.

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    It's a twice a week 500-calorie sacrifice, Fede.
    I can feast hedonistically the rest of the week.
    Which, as I have described above, is a rather wholesome feast...

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Two caveats (I have read elsewhere): The big danger for many women, it appears (and I'm not saying this is you. I'm saying it's been an observed situation) is that they will come out of an intermittent fast (whether there is any intake of calories during that fast, or not) but then they will not eat to normal levels and capacity. In other words, they fast - but then, rather than eat, they will still restrict intake. Which puts the body, gradually, into what's known as 'starvation mode'.

    That's one scenario.
    The other is that they come out of a fast, and indulge in whatever they want (Feasting hedonistically...? ;) ) because they think, subconsciously "Oh it's ok, I can eat 'this, that and the other' now, because in two days, I'll just fast again...." which again, is not a good thing to throw at the body...

    Now, I take your 'hedonistic' comment with a grain of pure Himalayan salt, because I know your definition of 'hedonistic' may just be one more fillet of fish than you usually take (!) but it's not how much you eat. It's 'what'.
    And I'm going back to your Hypertension problem, and the problem is fuelled by carbohydrates.
    Pure and simple.

    So by all means, lay on your Roman Villa couch, clad in nothing but a silk gossamer gown and fanned by two muscular, Rugby-playing, oiled-chested Adonis-type man-servants, being fed tasty morsels on a silver fork, by an attentive third... Just make sure you cut RIGHT back on the starchy stuff.

    ;)

    DhammaDragon
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    @federica said:
    So by all means, lay on your Roman Villa couch, clad in nothing but a silk gossamer gown and fanned by two muscular, Rugby-playing, oiled-chested Adonis-type man-servants, being fed tasty morsels on a silver fork, by an attentive third... Just make sure you cut RIGHT back on the starchy stuff.

    I have cut back on most starchy stuff, Fede.
    And believe me, one does not tend to eat more on non-fasting days.
    Geee..... I do love your Roman scenario with these Rugby player looking servants fanning me... <3

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I knew that would whet your appetite.... ;)

    DhammaDragon
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    I volunteer my services as man servant. Now where did I put my oil...

    DhammaDragon
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Hozan said:
    I volunteer my services as man servant. Now where did I put my oil...

    You'd better look the business, or she'll only laugh at you.

    She's very particular, and loves thighs.
    They're the best part.

    Ask any chicken.

    HozanDhammaDragon
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2017

    I have made just the most amazing Shefthalia! Bought me some caul from a butcher, and put these little darlings together....

    Currently in a very low oven just to seal the caul... then I'll finish them off on a griddle...
    I read a recipe on line, but I just looked at the ingredients then put it all together as I felt fit... so I personally didn't measure anything, I went by 'sight'.

    I also bought pre-minced meat, but didn't add any fat. Not because I didn't want to. Because I didn't have any. I might go through that extra step next time.

    http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/07/sheftalia-cyprus-sausage-in-caul-fat.html

    I further added a chopped chilli and some coriander leaves too.
    Take it from me, it's well worth it.

    Hozan
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    @federica that looks seriously tasty!! I am giving this lifestyle change a real crack! I feel great after a week. Fitter, clearer of mind, more energetic!

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    It's seriously the best thing I have ever done. I wish I had come across this WoL years ago.
    If you'd like reference to the LCHF forum I belong to (which has an absolutely abundant wealth of extra information, links, discussions and buddy-to-buddy advice), let me know. It's a closed group, but if you apply to join, mention my name, tell them you're a pal of mine, and that I recommended it. ;)

    KeromeHozan
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    Awesome @federica ! Very much appreciated! Will do! :awesome:

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    My breakfast was a slice of protein bread (at least 65% less carbs than normal bread) with a vegan cashew mousse that I adore.
    Almond mousse has far less carbs, but cashew tastes so much better...

    Lunch was a tuna and mixed salad.

    Dinner was 350 gr meat with cream spinach...

    @Hozan: did you find that oil, yet? 🐉😙😂

    Hozan
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I don't know what you want me to say, @DhammaDragon....
    Frankly, I don't give a fiddler's assets whether the cashew one tastes better.
    If you want to kick High Blood Pressure and avoid medication, you have to respect what you need to do.
    And what you need to do, is cut carbs.

    You came to us with the sorry news of your hypertension.
    But we can throw every good bit of advice at you to the point of exhaustion.

    Like the Dhamma, it's all well and fine in a book.
    Walking the talk is what counts.
    And the only one who can do it, is you.

    Count your carbs.
    limit them to under 35 a day.

    You may be cross with me now.
    I swear as I live and breathe, you will thank me in the end.

    DhammaDragon
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    @DhammaDragon said:
    My breakfast was a slice of protein bread (at least 65% less carbs than normal bread) with a vegan cashew mousse that I adore.
    Almond mousse has far less carbs, but cashew tastes so much better...

    Lunch was a tuna and mixed salad.

    Dinner was 350 gr meat with cream spinach...

    @Hozan: did you find that oil, yet? 🐉😙😂

    Found the oil...i'm all set....wait a minute...why is there nobody else here??...i've got prime thighs....honest!

    DhammaDragon
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    @DhammaDragon For me it doesn't matter how healthy the food is, if it's too many carbs, it doesn't work for my body. I gain weight, I suffer random body pain, I don't sleep well. I don't know if you read this entire thread (I wouldn't if I hadn't been participating the whole time, lol) but as I said earlier, I was on a super healthy all whole foods vegan diet for 6 weeks earlier this year and it did not go well despite how healthy I was eating. And it wasn't starch. All of my carbs (about 100-120g a day) came from vegetables, legumes/lentils and a little fruit. No grains, no starchy veggies or fruits (potatoes, bananas etc). It didn't matter. So even though your diet is healthy, it's possible the amount of carbs is still too much for what your body needs right now despite cutting out starch. If a metabolic system isn't processing carbs properly, it doesn't matter anymore how healthy they are in terms of the effects the overload of carbs has on the body.

    That said, more recently what I've found out is that a shortage of other minerals can contribute to hypertension. We have focused on salt this whole time but a person is likely to have low levels of magnesium, potassium and calcium that coincide with hypertension. My FIL went through a health crisis related to his liver but which contributed to HPB and this is part of new information he was told. His limit of salt was mediocre, not nearly what others were put on even a few years ago, but he was supplemented with other minerals. Generally, it's not recommended to take those supplements without medical advice, because they can affect your heart rhythms and you only need them if tests determine you aren't in normal ranges. Just something to look at, perhaps.

    DhammaDragon
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran
    edited June 2017

    Fede and @karasti: I thank you both for the info, and Fede, I am soooo not cross.

    It's just that part of my coping mechanism when I have to accept something that goes against my pleasures is striving to haggle and weasel out with some compromise in my favour.

    This past year, I have taken natural carb blocker pills with every meal, and that has helped infinitely in reducing the bloating and sluggishness that I have normally experienced with the carb ingestion.

    I very seldom eat bad carbs anyway because they simply do not agree with me.
    That much is clear to me.
    As to altogether ditching carbs in the guise of chocolate and cashew mousse, well, I need some bracing...

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    It is definitely an adjustment, but honestly it's probably easier than you think. I still eat some of my favorite treats. Just in limited amounts. And because I don't eat them as often or in larger quantities, they actually taste much better and I enjoy them more. If you plan your meals ahead, you never find yourself hungry and it takes a matter of days for cravings to disappear. And I am a self-confessed sweet tooth. I was hesitant to try LCHF because giving up pastries and beer and jujubees :open_mouth: But my attachment to them was largely due to sugar addiction (not saying that is the case for you as obviously you don't have the issue with sweets that I do). I don't eat pastries because one of them would be almost twice my carb allotment for the day, lol. And large doses of sugar now make me feel awful. But still eat jujubees. But instead of eating the whole box in one sitting, I eat just a couple a day. And enjoy them more as a result.

    Anyhow, it might not be as hard as you are imagining. and you don't necessarily have to entirely give them up. You just have to work them into your daily carb planning. I know that sounds super fun, :lol: but once you've done it for a short while it becomes automatic and isn't so much thinking.

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran
    edited June 2017

    In fact, all the snacks we buy are carbs: crisps, wholemeal sticks... there is a whole attitude which has to gradually change in our family.
    Probably buy more mozzarella sticks, olives, nuts, boiled eggs.
    My husband, for one, simply won't give up on Italian food.
    He told me downright to forget it.
    His choice.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    We have 3 kids, so we find ourselves often making 2 dinners. We tend to be lower carb as a family overall, but the older kids have jobs so they have the ability to buy their own stuff, and I'm pretty sure they would live on Lucky Charms and poptarts if we let them. They are required to eat our regular meals just so they get actual food! But they don't like it much. Our youngest is a type 1 diabetic of course so he's always been lower carb. It was one reason it was easy for us to change, because it never felt good to pig out on a plate of pasta when he was only allowed a half cup (or whatever).

    Snacks were hard for us at the start. We got tired of what we were allowed to eat. But we adjusted after a couple weeks to the idea that we just didn't need to snack as much. For us it was a habit born of too many carbs at dinner. So we'd crave carbs at 8pm and be eating chips. Now it's rare to snack because we aren't need them anymore. Jerky, eggs, cheese and olives are my go-to snacks but I mostly keep them for times that I have to be somewhere before I can eat breakfast or am traveling or something like that.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @DhammaDragon, Tell him I'm an Italian who has given up pasta, rice potatoes and bread. :p

    There is so much more to Italian food than Pizza and pasta ! :D

    Just as an aside, I eat probably about 5 eggs a day. That includes duck eggs.
    I don't eat a lot of cheese at the moment, because it exacerbates water retention - something that unfortunately runs notoriously in my family....

    Currently, I am drinking Hawthorn leaf tea, and plantain leaf tea....It helps.
    I have also upped soodium, magnesium and potassium....

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @karasti said:....Snacks were hard for us at the start. We got tired of what we were allowed to eat. But we adjusted after a couple weeks to the idea that we just didn't need to snack as much. For us it was a habit born of too many carbs at dinner. So we'd crave carbs at 8pm and be eating chips. Now it's rare to snack because we aren't need them anymore. Jerky, eggs, cheese and olives are my go-to snacks but I mostly keep them for times that I have to be somewhere before I can eat breakfast or am traveling or something like that.

    I think I have mentioned this before, but never have people eaten so much, and so often! (I'm not rebuking you, @karasti , it's a totally general observation, you have brought to mind!)

    UK aspect:

    IN the 40's people were frugal, because it was a time of global conflict, rationing and home-grown produce. (We have the World-famous Twickenham Rugby Ground, which is affectionately known as 'The Cabbage Patch' because during the war, it had an alternative existence as one vast allotment!) People didn't 'snack' between meals, because snacks simply didn't exist.
    Then in the 50's, the little housewife would go shopping daily to a variety of small family-run shops, to get all her groceries for the day's meals... Children would have tea once they got home from school, and the parents would eat 'grown-up food' once they had gone to bed, and husband had come home from work....

    In the 60's, a global revolution known as 'Women's Lib' had the distantly-connected effect of the food industry marketing pre-prepared, packaged and tinned foods, which made life easier for women, who wanted to go out to work... cafes and snack bars cropped up, and Indian and Chinese takeaways were born. And spread rapidly, preparing foods suited to the English palate.

    Chefs like Elizabeth David, Robert Carrier and Fanny Craddock brought cooking to life through their books and tv programmes... We subsequently had The Galloping Gourmet, Keith Floyd and various others following in their lauded footsteps....
    Food habits and tastes have changed at an alarming rate, to the extent that if we don't have food to go, we feel we're lacking.
    I don't know what it's like in your part of the world, @karasti , but here, you cannot walk anywhere in our town without meeting at least ten people who are eating as they walk - a deplorable and unsocial habit I detest.
    And mothers don't give their children pacifiers - at least, not what we in the UK call 'dummies' - those rubber and plastic soothing objects that still a baby's cries....

    Pacifiers now come in the guise of chips, crisps, sweets and sugary drinks.
    Food is an antidote to doing nothing, to boredom, and it begins in the stroller/pushchair.

    Fasting - eating only at meals - is a thing of the past. We don't go without, and to suggest such a thing to people is met with a sense of disbelief or horror, and a conviction that doing so is both unnatural and unhealthy.

    Fortunately, prominent and well-known experts in the field of Nutrition, are reaching out and changing that PoV... Dr Mosely, Dr Fung, Sarah Hallsberg et al....

    Unfortunately, just as 'Buddhism is for the intelligentsia', so, it appears, is knowledge of good nutrition....

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    In our household, it's a sort of Pavlov reflex, Fede.
    We sit down to watch tv, and our bodies automatically crave snacks.
    We simply must eat something in front of the tv...
    I have tried to counteract the habit by drinking tea or mate tea.
    Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not...

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    edited June 2017

    @DhammaDragon yes, that was the case with us, too. A drink and snacks from like 8pm to 11pm. But without needing snacks (because dinner stays put for so long because of more fat in the diet) we actually find we go to bed earlier and sleep better.

    @federica Absolutely. People eat constantly here, too. Just the other day at the grocery store, a kid who was definitely old enough to wait 5 mins (she must have been 5 or 6 years old) was eating fruit snacks her mom tore open while waiting in the check out line. Then she yelled at the clerk for spilling a couple of them because she had torn the bag wide open. :angry: I see all the time kids eating food in stores that hasn't even been paid for yet. I try not to judge, because there are times people probably see my son eat and judge without knowing he's a diabetic and in need of a snack, lol. But I doubt that's the case for most people. We saw a man eating a whole bucket of fried chicken while he was driving (poorly at that) down the interstate, driving 70mph! It is definitely an issue here, too. Stuffing their face with one hand and on the phone with the other. It's crazy to me. Whole tables of families out to eat with everyone on their devices. SMH. There is a complete lack of attention to eating-how and what-in most of the developed world it seems.

    My oldest will even verbalize this by saying eating is too much work and he hates taking the time to cook. He wants food that is precooked and is so soft he doesn't have to try to chew it. I actually read an article not long ago that our continued use of foods that don't require work to eat is resulting in far more extensive dental and jaw correction than ever before. Because the muscles and tendons go unused, starting with a lack of breast feeding.

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    I've been following a mindful eating regime over the last month - basically eating only when I'm hungry, and then in limited portions - and I've never lost weight this quickly. It's coming very naturally too. The trick is, whenever you have the impulse to eat something, to ask yourself "am I actually hungry?" And if you are not, just don't eat it. I'm finding I'm doing almost zero snacking, and my tendency to eat has shifted around to minimal lunches and early dinners, and I'm much more connected to my body.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    The thing is that only works when someone's hormonal system is in balance :) Because determining hunger depends on proper hormone regulation. When it's messed up, a person can't tell if they are hungry or not or when they are even full when they start eating. I do love mindful eating and we practice it in our home. But to ask myself if I am hungry almost always results in me saying that yep, I am. But that was largely due to consuming too many carbs which keeps a person on a crashing blood sugar rollercoaster. I read a book about Oryoki that was fascinating. Japanese eating, means "Just enough." But sometimes a body has to be retrained to know what that means. Mindless eating definitely contributes to a whole lot of problems! Especially overeating.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @DhammaDragon, that would be a great habit to break. If I watch TV, I also knit...

    But I have found that in having totally changed my attitude to food, and modified my intake, I actually no longer get cravings or impulses.
    It's a question of Discipline.
    If we can bring ourselves to sit in quiet, contemplative meditation for XX minutes at a time, then we can discipline ourselves to be mindful of what we merely think we want, as opposed to what our body actually needs.
    We should apply the same kind of discipline to our eating habits as we do to our practice.

    The best way to do this is to not buy the snacks in the first place, of course...

    Just don't have them in the house.
    It's remarkable how quickly you get over them, when they're not even within arm's reach. ;)

    A High-protein diet cuts those cravings and eliminates perceived 'peckishness'....

    karasti
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2017

    A friend of mine on the LCHF forum posted this, which I think is both a timely reminder, and definitely worth noting:

    We keep trying to do basic math (+, -, *, /) while our bodies are doing advanced chemistry, physics, biometric math, calculus, and goodness only knows what on Earth else!!! It doesn't hold up. What our bodies do is not as simple as what we see as numbers to punch in a calculator.

    ...So let's do our math and remember that the body is a grand and mysterious thing - let's wait for it's magic, too, and just check the numbers occasionally!
    (It takes 4 weeks for any changes to truly start showing reasonable results...and 12 weeks to reevaluate if something really is or absolutely is not working as expected - trends are more important in the long run than any temporary blip of a reading!)...

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    How many grams of nuts are considered a normal portion for snacking?
    I bought a package today, and the portion is measured by 30 gr.
    That does not seem like much :o
    And how come coconut oil has no carbs, but a coconut mousse spread I bought has plenty of carbs, even more than protein? :p

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Measurements are made based on recommended allowances by government. So nuts get a small serving size because of their fat content, even though it's healthy fat and studies keep showing that they cant' figure out why people don't gain weight from eating nuts. Generally a serving is considered a small handful. But, if you are LCHF, you eat a lot more fat so you can get away with more nuts, and you should because they are good for you. But, some have a lot of carbs, like pistachios. When your carbs become much less, you have a lot of calories to fill in and much of that comes from healthy fats. I eat 108g of fat a day. Compared to the recommendation of 40-70, and that's on a 2000 calorie diet,and I don't eat that much.

    Mousse almost always has sugar of some name or sort in it, in my experience. I make a low carb one, but even that has stevia (or whatever you want to use). Otherwise it's like eating pasty cocoa.

    I forgot to say yesterday I do agree that we overall eat way too many calories. I think most people would do well to eat less on a regular basis. But less still has to be enough for body function, too. What that is, I'm sure, varies by person like everything else. I do best on around 1500 but I am losing weight so I could bump that up a little to maintain my weight.

    DhammaDragon
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    I eat a lot of fruit relatively. You might think it has a lot of sugar but actually by weight fruit is low in calories. Since sugar is high calories per mass we can conclude that there is not much sugar relative to high sugar foods. And fruits have a lot of other good things with different fruits having different bonuses. http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/fruit-nutrition.html

    But I don't know how a fruit affects low carb diet.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2017

    It certainly affects a low-carb diet with its sugar content - particularly if one is also having to contend with DType2.... Luckily, (and I don't know, or can't remember whether this is the case in the USA) but our Carbs are immediately followed by "Of which sugars"... so finding a reliable source of carb/calorie counting, is a good idea.

    But you have to understand one thing:

    A lot of carb/calorie counting, on the internet - or indeed, anywhere - is a "Guesstimate".

    One site might tell you it has 48 g/carbs per 100g, of which sugars 35g, another might tell you the amount in a serving - and it's anyone's guess just what exactly a serving is.... and yet another may tell you it's 48g/carbs per 100g but this may be a round-up... and the sugar may be listed at 32g.... additionally, in the USA, you have to deduct fibre content. In the UK it's already done.

    So sometimes, keeping an eye on calorific intake can be a bit of a minefield.

    @DhammaDragon, I belong to MyfitnessPal, and it's a good way of keeping an average score by daily intake. But I don't set my heartbeat to it.
    In other words, I know it's going to be 'give or take an x amount, and because I tend to eat at a lower rate than the recommended daily calorific intake, I'm not too worried about a bit of leeway.

    I have my daily calorific intake set at 1110.

    I set my carbs at 10%/28g,

    Protein at 40%/111g

    Fats at 50%/62g

    The percentages are set, by the website program, at increments of 5, so it's not all that precise. In order to have more accurate definition, you need to subscribe and pay, and quite frankly, I'm not concerned enough or bothered enough to do that.

    I can see that this way of eating is making a huge difference.

    My colleague said to me yesterday, "If you lose much more, we won't be able to see you!" (I think it might have been wishful thinking on her part... Lol!!)

    Carbs are an absolute maximum. But Low-carb is variously described at 30g per day, 50g per day and by some, even 75g a day.
    I tend to stay at the lower end of the scale.

    Protein is the target. Meet that every day, even if you have to gnaw on your son's leg... ;)

    Fats are a filler if you feel hungry and need to intake to make up - so if I'm a degree over on fats, I'm not bothered, but I DO keep my protein intake up.

    Drink plenty of water, (avoid fruit juices) but don't drink too much WITH a meal. Drink 15 minutes before, or a good half hour after....

    On fast days, I make sure I have zero intake - just fluids, and normally 24 - 36 hours is good for me.
    A Mini fast is eating dinner, then not eating again until 18 hours later... so if I eat dinner at 8pm, I don't eat again until 2pm the next day. Given the schedules of our breaks at work, I actually don't eat until between 3 and 4pm, because that's when the afternoon breaks are scheduled for.

    And sometimes, I actually don't feel any hunger, so at that time, I'll snack, and have a hard-boiled egg, and a chunk of ham, or cheese.

    Cheese bloats me in hot weather, so I tend to avoid too much of it....

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    Well, according to my age, weight and height, I have been advised to eat 1800 calories.
    Honestly, I find it's a lot.
    Some days I reach that amount -rough estimate, since I only count on my two days of fasting- and others I guess I don't.
    My two fasting days, it's only 500 calories.
    I never drink juices, except a tiny glass for the family Green Bull (matcha green tea diluted in juice).
    And fluids, yes, never with the meals.

    @karasti: the mousse is in fact a coconut spread.
    I guess it is called mousse because the texture is more creamy than plain coconut oil.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I would advise you to lower that calorific count and adjust your macros accordingly (Macros = individual portions/measurements of carbs, protein & fats....)

    Maybe go to 1600 to begin with....
    When I first began this WoE, I reduced my intake down to 1000, but bulked on proteins and fats. (In that order). Totally rejected all and any obvious starchy carb. Just went all in cold turkey, no half-measures.
    As I began to lose weight, I found my appetite and intake just seemed to fall into a beneficial pattern and self-adjusted.

    I can now look at a plate and almost automatically/instinctively know whether it will keep me above or below my targets.... Usually, I'm bang-on correct....

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    I'm currently eating about 2 slices of bread with humous, an orange and maybe a bowl of soup a day, so around 600 calories a day quite often. With moderate activity. Still losing weight steadily, around 300 grams every two days or so. It's a marathon not a sprint, since I'm aiming to lose quite a bit more.

    I find my biggest enemy is 'emotional eating', for example when I'm tired and not feeling well I will have a bite to perk up my blood sugar. And then I can easily come off the rails and have a double handful of almonds or cashews, or make myself some bread with tuna-mayonnaise.

    I've tried low-carb diets in the past, when Atkins first became popular I lost quite a bit of weight on it, but in the end I didn't find it sustainable. Staying off bread and sweets and fruit juice and alcohol was really hard long term. But it was the first really successful diet for me, and has led to my weight yo-yo'ing quite a bit over the last fifteen years.

    So I'm hoping that this time I've hit on a diet that can be adopted as a lifestyle change. I think that's the key thing, to find a style of eating that you're happy with and that your body feels good with, and that doesn't lead to slow creeping weight gain.

  • gracklegrackle Veteran

    There is quite a difference between being appetite driven and hunger driven. When I learned this everything changed for the better. If you eat only when hungry you will have few problems.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    The recommendations for what to eat I also find high @DhammaDragon . Most would say I need 2100 calories. But, that is also a suggestion to maintain weight. I can tell you I would gain without having to test that, lol.

    @Jeffrey It does depend a bit on the fruit. Raspberries, for example, are relatively low in carb/sugar and have a good amount of fiber (which you subtract since it doesn't digest). So a cup of raspberries has only about 6g of carbs. Some fruits have much more, like banana, apple, pineapple. I still eat them, just not as much of them. I can tell you that fruit absolutely raises our sons blood sugar, so it also impacts a low carb diet. For me,I cannot just give up fruit. I love it too much. I just am cautious how much I eat and make sure it fits into my day. The carbs I do eat are all fruits and veggies. More veggies than fruits.

    @Kerome They aren't meant for most people to be sustainable at super low carb levels. It is only for the period of losing weight and resetting the bodies hormonal/metabolic systems. Once weight loss is achieved at a healthy level, you start to add carbs back in until the point you start to gain weight and then back off slightly, so you are maintaining your weight. Juice though is just really not good for a person, just saying, lol. It's like koolaid with vitamin c added. Super concentrated sugar. I have the occasional small glass of tomato juice with breakfast when we eat out. But other than that I haven't had juice in like 10 years? Maybe more. Occasionally pure cranberry when I had bladder infections. It just is So much sugar. We use it to bring our son's blood sugar up quickly when he goes really low. It works really well. The downfall it does the same thing to everyone else and contributes to the blood sugar rollercoasters.

    When I am sick, I just go with what my body feels it needs. Most often homemade bone broths with some mild veggies. Emotional eating is definitely a hard one to deal with. But changing our view that food is a comfort happens over time. Food is fuel and healing for our body. Or it's damaging to our body. That is how I look at it as I make choices. If I need comfort I have a self-care routine I turn to that works amazingly well.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I have to say, for my part, I will NEVER go back to eating carbs as a habit, even at a reduced amount.
    I'm off carbs.
    I'm off carbs for good.
    Carbs are entirely unnecessary to a diet.
    I'm convinced of this.

    NB: It should be noted that I have some carbs still, because of the content in vegetables. But the addition is neither deliberate nor notable.
    In fact, some days, I have protein only and no veg at all.
    And that's perfectly ok too.

    Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy vegetables. What's more, even though there is a school of thought that stipulates a person can dispense with vegetables entirely and still live with a perfectly-balanced system (although the idea is novel, intriguing and has validity), I really don't either want, or plan to dispense with them entirely.

    There are some who can do this kind of Way of Eating in 'half-measures'. That is, Low- to mid-carb, high to moderate proteins.... And if it works for you that's great.

    But I think it may be worth mentioning that if you want to lose weight - and keep it off, and remain healthy - then this isn't a temporary thing 'until I reach target'.

    @Kerome said:
    I'm currently eating about 2 slices of bread with humous, an orange and maybe a bowl of soup a day, so around 600 calories a day quite often. With moderate activity. Still losing weight steadily, around 300 grams every two days or so. It's a marathon not a sprint, since I'm aiming to lose quite a bit more.

    I would advise (myself) a rethink on the fruit and bread. That's carbs, and as we mentioned earlier in the thread, it's not just calories - it's calories PLUS 'information'.
    What I mean is, (just an example) if a cream cake has 400 calories, and a steak, fried egg and fried mushrooms also contain 400 calories, there's a big difference.
    Further - again, mentioned earlier - Carbs are addictive, because of the sugar hit/content. It's not the cream bun, fries, chips, cheetos, burger we love. it's the sugar hit that at times we can't even taste or see, but it affects us inside, physically, unseen, like a creeping tide.

    I find my biggest enemy is 'emotional eating', for example when I'm tired and not feeling well I will have a bite to perk up my blood sugar. And then I can easily come off the rails and have a double handful of almonds or cashews, or make myself some bread with tuna-mayonnaise.

    Almonds, and cashews - not bad.
    Tuna and mayo - absolutely fine.
    Bread.
    There's the culprit.
    That's gonna hit your sugar levels harder than anything else.

    I've tried low-carb diets in the past, when Atkins first became popular I lost quite a bit of weight on it, but in the end I didn't find it sustainable. Staying off bread and sweets and fruit juice and alcohol was really hard long term. But it was the first really successful diet for me, and has led to my weight yo-yo'ing quite a bit over the last fifteen years.

    That would be because of the carb addiction.
    In order to quit carbs and get over them, it can take some people anything up to 6 months to a year to 'get it out of their system'. It's exactly the same thing with people who are hardened drug addicts (and remember, you've been eating carbs your whole life) and they don't go cold turkey, but they either dabble at times, or have a drug substitute.
    Truth is, they haven't given it up at all, and for them, going back to their addiction is far easier, more natural and more expected than for those who go cold turkey - and stick to it.

    So I'm hoping that this time I've hit on a diet that can be adopted as a lifestyle change. I think that's the key thing, to find a style of eating that you're happy with and that your body feels good with, and that doesn't lead to slow creeping weight gain.

    I honestly think the only way you're going to adopt it as a lifestyle change - is to change your lifestyle. Completely.
    Your body feels good eating some carbs, because you've always eaten carbs, and you are thereby continuing to feed the addiction.

    Sure. I get it. Cutting out carbs is going to take discipline and initial sacrifice.
    I had to do it, and remember, I've been eating carbs all my life, too. I'm Italian. Pasta, rice and bread are more staple to an Italian diet than anywhere else I personally know of...
    You can't open a single (non LCHF or associated eating) recipe book anywhere, without carbs and sugars playing a huge - not to say central - role.
    This is how prevalent, and insidious they are.

    (It kind of reminds me of vegetarians complaining that all they ever used to get was salads and quiche, because cooks and chefs had no imagination on how to produce wholesome, healthy, and varied dishes using only vegetables.
    It's the same thing in creating dishes without carbs. Ultimately, they're classified as 'specialised particular-need' recipes....)

    My H was even more addicted to carbs than I was. He was a type 2 Diabetic with a distinctly sweet tooth, on constant meds.
    He's lost 3 stone - that's 42lbs - since March, and he's completely off his meds. And he KNOWS there's no going back. he doesn't WANT to go back to the way he was. And he knows what it's going to take.

    @Kerome I honestly am not criticising you, nor am I condemning you, but as is often said, "If you do what you always did, you're going to get what you always got."
    To make the changes and adopt a new lifestyle, sometimes, you can't go by half-measures.
    Sometimes, you have to do it whole hog.

    Nobody ever leapt over a ditch in two small paces, without getting their feet wet.....

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I think what level of carbs a person can eat without it being detrimental to their weight or health is going to vary. I truly don't miss grains of any type or starches. I do miss some fruits, but then again I don't intend to give them up and haven't had to because they haven't been a detriment to me. I do alright on a slightly higher carb level. Up to about 75g a day, I still lose weight, it just slows down. Sticking to 36g or less, I lose 2 pounds a week without fail. Every week. But for me I just enjoy experimenting and seeing where things go. My ancestors thrived on a fatty diet, being Nordic people and as a result (in part) I fully expect that that is what my body prefers. I don't mean ancient ancestors either. My great grandparents all were born in Finland, and as a result my grandparents, and my parents, ate a largely traditional Finnish diet, at least until around the 70s. But I do also believe in living with the cycles nature and the planet, which includes fruit. It just happens that it seems most likely our bodies will prefer fruit that is also native to our ancestry. In my case, berries. Bananas aren't exactly something you would find in Finland in the 1800s. And small apples, the wild kind that are a fraction of the size of store bought. It's almost berry season here, cannot wait. We pick enough raspberries and blueberries wild to last the whole rest of the year.

    But yes, low carb is literally the only thing that has worked for me to lose weight. It didn't matter how healthy I was eating or how much I was working out. If my carbs are too high, I don't lose or I gain weight, period. I had to make the decision that my extra weight was having too much of an impact on my health, and in time would have had more severe consequences. I don't want those consequences. And I don't want to set that example for our diabetic child. But there are challenges, having 5 people in the house. We frequently are making multiple meals, and it gets boring, expensive and time consuming.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I was 'speaking' with a lady on another forum. here's what she said:

    Here I am getting back on track yet again. 2 years ago lost 40 lbs with low carb eating and exercise.
    Gained all back.
    This past Jan started keto and IF. Lost 20.
    Gained back.
    I made my son tater tots and ate a huge handful before I could think and then woke up this morning craving a bagel. And ate one. And a cookie. And I am diabetic.

    I feel like there is something more than lack of will power. I feel like an addict.

    I love the way I feel low carb. I got off insulin. My eye sight improved aches and pains gone. Hair and skin felt healthier. Increased confidence.

    I hate the way I feel now... :(

    I replied:

    Carb/sugar addiction is a real thing.
    But the best way to kick a habit is to not have stuff like that, to hand.
    And (I hate to sound harsh) but if you're buying and feeding your son that stuff - aren't you kind of priming him for the same problems?

    My daughter (who has also decided to go LCHF) has a 7-year-old son, and she has cut right back on his carbs. He no longer has starchy snacks, Instead, she prepares him his favourite nibbles, which includes prawns in mayo, sashimi salmon, hummus and carrot sticks, cottage cheese and olives, and home-made oven-baked chicken strips, and pork crackling.

    My H has lost three stone (42lbs) since March of this year, and he is no longer diabetic type 2. He's completely off his meds, and looks -and feels - great.
    C'mon, Hun.... You can do this!

    You've done it before.
    Kick the bad habits, and get real.
    This is not just weight, you're messing with.
    This is your health and your life.
    And, come to that, your son's.

    She replied:

    Yes @federica . "harsh" is exactly what I need. There are too many people in my life who allow me to make excuses. The everything in moderation folks, And it may work for them but clearly not for me. And you are right. Why set my son up for future health problems. .... It will take more planning on my part but if I only offer cauli tots and other healthy options eventually he will eat them... hopefully.

    Cutting carbs to lose weight is the obvious and visible benefit. But the unseen, endless, amazing and often initially hidden benefit is the overwhelmingly positive benefit it has on one's health.
    My H is testimony to that. This dear lady is another. By her own admission, she confesses how wonderful it is to feel so good.
    And she shoots herself in the foot, because she is addicted to carbs and doesn't go without them for long enough to establish an easy resistance.

    Hopefully, @Kerome, this is evidence that I really wasn't criticising or having a go. But I was trying to point out that giving carbs a foot-hold in the door, is playing a 'dangerous' game. In more ways than one.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    yep, it takes one cheat meal/item to completely knock you off. It's amazing how fast it happens. Our neighbor ladies are both low carb and had been for years, and when they got married they each had a piece of wedding cake. And were hung over the entire next day, feeling every bit as awful as a night of too much wine. I am glad to have a partner to keep me on track. I did low carb last year and did amazing, but when we went on a trip with my dad, I had little choice in food because he paid for everything and meals were a group decision. I did what I could, but southern eating is not kind for low carb. I fell off the wagon and was off for 6 months, I gained 20 pounds on top of what I had lost in that time. My calories were the same, Carbs went from 35g to 100+g. Gained 37 pounds in 6 months. I was glad my hubby started with me in March, because he has no attachments to food and doesn't do the emotional eating thing like I do. So even though our vacation this month wasn't ideal, we got back on track immediately. I gained no weight on our trip thank goodness. But last week lost 3.5 pounds. I'm down 29 pounds since March. NOthing I eat I miss enough to give that up.

    federica
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