Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@newbuddhist.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take up to 48 hours. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Mx Angry

Is this any way to be?
http://m.wikihow.com/Get-Angry

Deep seated emotional states for me can be most easily transformed by physical methods:

  • Physical exertion

  • Daily meditation and attention to breath

  • Ignoring Potass Donut Trump

What is working for Mx Angry?

Comments

  • eggsavioreggsavior Dagobah Veteran

    My anger makes me notice things that are bothering me... I just pause, acknowledge I'm mad, and then tell myself whatever it is isn't a big deal and to move on. but because of this I have pent up emotions and reactions I would've otherwise used. I don't notice until I get rid of some saved up energy and realize how relieved I feel afterward. as you said, this is usually physical

    anger is an active emotion in need of an active response. I want to try rock climbing. I've never been an athletic person but climbing is so fun, I forget I'm working my body out.

    anger meditation.... the thought makes me cringe. maybe that means i should try it right now

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    I think you would be better off in the zone, rock climbing and doing standing or sitting on the summit @eggsavior

    I have only tried rock climbing once, had to be practically dragged up a quarry, I was so useless. :3

    Incredible concentration, flexibility, strength and athleticism required. Get angry with the rock? You fall. Seems a great possibility to conquer fear/anger/anxiety etc ... :)

    karasti
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    It's been said "Prevention is better than cure" and when it comes to "anger", I'm inclined to agree...Better to develop mindfulness and become mindful of one's thoughts before they bring forth angry words or actions....

    Which reminds me of the Dhammapada's "Twin Verses (which tend to come in handy)

    All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him, as the wheel follows the foot of the ox that draws the carriage.

    All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him.

    “He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,”–in those who harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease.

    He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,”–in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred will cease.

    vinlynkarastieggsavior
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @Shoshin - Pah! o:)

    Better to not engage the mouth, without engaging the mind first. Pah again!

    ... and now back to Mx Very Angry with knobs on ... o:)

    (too wikid?) ... ah well, better solutions always welcome ... B)
    http://dharmawisdom.org/teachings/articles/working-mindfully-anger

    Shoshin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Tut tut ...... @lobster :wink:

    lobster
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    I truthfully don't get what I'd consider to be angry very often anymore. I get frustrated more than anything. If I find myself angry, I usually write, and once it all comes out, then it's gone. I wrote this morning about the latest police shooting (which happened in my state) for that reason. Writing works well for me. I do think that keeping a routine of meditation, yoga and regular exercise with exertion helps immensely with regulating my emotional state. I like to work yard and sweat buckets. Flushes me out in a lot of ways, it seems.

    I used to go running when I got mad, but I found that increased my chances for hurting myself because I pushed too hard and ignored my body while I tried to process what was in my head.

    lobster
  • gracklegrackle Veteran

    @lobster. A daily walk leads to a natural sorting out. Even a natural leveling out. I've told a friend that without that walk becoming cranky is a distinct possibility. Like an infant who missed out on his nap.

    lobsterVastmind
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    I'm working too much this week. I saw the title of this thread and immediately thought MX=DNS settings 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Very interesting responses everyone. Very varied solutions.

    The mind based solution for me is insufficient or rather inefficient compared to working with the mind-body complex as a whole.

    We find our way. A daily walk or other physical exertion perhaps as @grackle counsels.

    Anger can be utilised as @Shoshin spotted in a wrathful but kindly way BUT that is often used as an excuse for our underlying uresolved issues and therefore may not be as skilful as we imagine.

    My inclination is towards a wholesome lifestyle. The subtlety of our impediments can be exposed by introspection or journaling/blogging as @karasti suggests.

    An impediment is really a 'precious jewel' because it may be the very obstacle that we overcompensate for and work towards overcoming ... Acknowledge the jewel ...
    http://www.wildmind.org/mantras/figures/vajrapani

  • eggsavioreggsavior Dagobah Veteran

    @Shoshin the trusty DP. never will there be a finer primer for the Dharma o:)

    @karasti journaling is great. I've been doing it for many years. hopefully I will continue to. your point on bodily harm is interesting, something I worry about too.

    Shoshin
  • KeromeKerome Did I fall in the forest? Europe Veteran

    Have you tried tai-chi or chi-gong @lobster? Doing those at speed might be a good way to work through anger in a meditative way using the body-mind complex.

  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited July 18

    @lobster said:

    The mind based solution for me is insufficient or rather inefficient compared to working with the mind-body complex as a whole.

    Hmmm. .... what if 'i'm here and now'
    what exactly the 'i'm here and now' is another question to ask and need to get an answer

    An impediment is really a 'precious jewel' because it may be the very obstacle that we overcompensate for and work towards overcoming ... Acknowledge the jewel ...

    may be the jewel is the 'every perception arises'?

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @Kerome - Yes done Tai Chi and Chi-Kung. Find it very calming, if done daily. A useful solution. Should be able to find a few minutes for it ... B)

  • namarupanamarupa Veteran
    edited July 18

    Without Buddhism I don't know where I'd be, either dead, insane, or 1000 times more depressed than I already am maybe.

    Perhaps anger is not just something to be unrooted this lifetime. Perhaps maybe I decided last lifetime to unroot it, I don't really know.

    It does feel like the subtle changes combine and work together though. Just let it be?

    lobster
  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @namarupa said:
    Without Buddhism I don't know where I'd be, either dead, insane, or 1000 times more depressed than I already am maybe.

    Perhaps anger is not just something to be unrooted this lifetime. Perhaps maybe I decided last lifetime to unroot it, I don't really know.

    It does feel like the subtle changes combine and work together though. Just let it be?

    if somebody is having depression or any mental disease s/he has been practising meditation in their previous life time and in this life time they are trapped with different life style
    there is a chemical imbalance too
    it is a shame that the family members, friends, doctors. psychiatrists, psychologists can not understand this state or believe it
    giving medication for the chemical imbalance and advising them to meditate would be the cure for depression and mental disease
    there are different causes to have this type of situation
    whatever the causes were, we cannot change them now
    but we can change the future by taking medication and practising meditation under the guidance of a proper meditation teacher

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @eggsavior said:
    @karasti journaling is great. I've been doing it for many years. hopefully I will continue to. Your point on bodily harm is interesting, something I worry about too.

    Regarding wholesome exercise ... even though running did not work for me (effected my walking - took two years to recover), it works for others for example @Tosh

    Bodily harm CAN happen through Yoga and even premature or unnecessary lotus positioning. It is far more difficult (have not come across it) with Tai Chi/Qi-ong ...
    Just as we may not know our own mind, we may not know our own body ...

    Here is a good work out ...

    eggsavior
  • KeromeKerome Did I fall in the forest? Europe Veteran

    @upekka said:

    @namarupa said:
    Without Buddhism I don't know where I'd be, either dead, insane, or 1000 times more depressed than I already am maybe.

    Perhaps anger is not just something to be unrooted this lifetime. Perhaps maybe I decided last lifetime to unroot it, I don't really know.

    It does feel like the subtle changes combine and work together though. Just let it be?

    if somebody is having depression or any mental disease s/he has been practising meditation in their previous life time and in this life time they are trapped with different life style
    there is a chemical imbalance too
    it is a shame that the family members, friends, doctors. psychiatrists, psychologists can not understand this state or believe it
    giving medication for the chemical imbalance and advising them to meditate would be the cure for depression and mental disease
    there are different causes to have this type of situation

    The "chemical imbalance" theory of the cause of mental disorders has been disproven pretty thoroughly by now, most mental disorders seem to be sociogenic in origin.

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/04/spurious-chemical-imbalance-theory-still-alive-well/

    The problem is getting to the root of these disorders requires a pretty advanced mindfulness practice, and often the unquiet mind that these disorders generate makes it significantly harder to actually meditate.

    federicakarasti
  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @Kerome said:

    The "chemical imbalance" theory of the cause of mental disorders has been disproven pretty thoroughly by now, most mental disorders seem to be sociogenic in origin.

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/04/spurious-chemical-imbalance-theory-still-alive-well/

    actually i too do not believe in this
    because after several months it is possible for another researcher or research group to come up with another results
    i do not believe in results given by researchers/their findings because all research have to have limited data to be examined and they bring up a theory/theories according to those limited data

    further i do not believe in medicine to cure any illness
    because there is only four elements and changes of elements is inevitable
    since we have no patience to wait and see the change, we rush to see doctors
    however i know it is not advisable to suggest people to avoid taking medicine for their illness
    therefore i wouldn't suggest something like that in any forum

    The problem is getting to the root of these disorders requires a pretty advanced mindfulness practice,

    agree

    and often the unquiet mind that these disorders generate makes it significantly harder to actually meditate.

    agree

  • Lee82Lee82 Veteran

    I very very rarely get angry but did this week. My usual journey home took over 2 hours instead of the usual 40 mins which on a good day is 25 mins. We'd planned to go out walking in the evening and my wife looks forward to me coming home to spend time with her and the kids.

    There had been a motorway accident, caused by a stupid driver, drunk I think. It caused complete chaos and every which way I turned I became more stuck.

    Not sure why it made me angry as there was nothing that I could do about it and it just meant I got home late. I suppose partly for me having to sit there in the car but more for the people that depend on me or enjoy my company who I was letting down by not being with them.

    Something to reflect on when I get some peace and quiet.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    More food for thought.....

    If you have a problem, and there is a solution, there's no need to get pi$$y about it.
    If you have a problem, and there is no solution, there's no use getting pi$$y about it.

    The reason you got mad, is to be blunt, totally immaterial.
    The fact you got mad needs more attention.

    There's no point feeling bad about the people who 'depend on you'.
    Did you have a mobile 'phone?
    Did you call them to let them know what happened?
    If not, was your explanation once you got home, accepted?
    What a good thing you were not embroiled in the accident itself, and you lived to tell the tale!

    That's a bonus, isn't it?
    You walked off alive.....

  • Lee82Lee82 Veteran

    Woah ok.

    To put it in some context, I have a month old and a 2 yr old at home. When I get home it is a great relief to my wife and comes at a time where we need to sort out dinner etc.

    Yes of course I let them know, my explanation was of course a perfectly reasonable one and yes I wasn't involved in the incident. Yet I was frustrated that I was caught up in that. My bad.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @Lee82 Pesky expectations always tangle us up! For me, too, especially when I know someone else has expectations I am not meeting (even if it is not my fault). I have a hard time when my plans go awry. It is just my personality to like a laid-out plan, and when it doesn't work out, I get irritated. Yesterday, I told my mom we'd be to her house at a specific time. I woke my oldest up with plenty of time to spare. Instead of getting ready and eating, he sat around, and then when it was time to leave we ended up having to run into town so he could eat. Was it a huge deal? Of course not. Was my mom mad that we were 15 minutes late for hanging out at her house? No, but I don't like to give a time and then be late because she took the afternoon off work to spend time with us. But mostly I was plenty irritated because my plan to leave at X time and drive X way to my mom's house was averted, lol.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    @Lee82 said:
    Woah ok.

    To put it in some context, I have a month old and a 2 yr old at home. When I get home it is a great relief to my wife and comes at a time where we need to sort out dinner etc.

    Yes of course I let them know, my explanation was of course a perfectly reasonable one and yes I wasn't involved in the incident. Yet I was frustrated that I was caught up in that. My bad.

    First of all, I apologise if I sounded harsh.

    My point was that in order to allay any anger, irritation or frustration, it helps to assess why you feel that way and whether in actual fact it's worth the spent energy.

    Sitting in a traffic hold up, where there is absolutely nothing you can do, nowhere you can go, no-one to hold directly responsible, then it's worth breathing deeply, relaxing the shoulders, and realising that "it is what it is."

    Don't think of the other driver as 'stupid'. That just makes you more mad.
    Think of him as in need of Compassion because he obviously doesn't 'get it' and who knows what was going on in his life for him to do what he did...
    Was it a fatal accident, do you know...?

    The way I look at it, is that even if a delay like that caused me inconvenience, it caused the emergency services, and those involved, a lot more.

    I find that if I think of others first, any anger dissipates.

    upekkakarastilobsterLee82
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @Lee82 said:
    Not sure why it made me angry ...

    Human beings are emotionally irrational. Anger is not something that can be rationalised away, any more than strong emotional attachment aka love ...
    So the thought based approach is only useful for those with:

    • emotional repression
    • restraint
    • control
    • or overcoming

    All very different.

    Regarding the frustration-anger that @Lee82 mentions:

    • Calm music soothes the savage beast
    • Calm smells, a bottle of esential oil, eau-de-cologne wipes on the neck
    • Mantra (also helps with breathing)
  • eggsavioreggsavior Dagobah Veteran
    edited July 20

    @upekka said:

    @Kerome said:

    The "chemical imbalance" theory of the cause of mental disorders has been disproven pretty thoroughly by now, most mental disorders seem to be sociogenic in origin.

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/04/spurious-chemical-imbalance-theory-still-alive-well/

    actually i too do not believe in this
    because after several months it is possible for another researcher or research group to come up with another results
    i do not believe in results given by researchers/their findings because all research have to have limited data to be examined and they bring up a theory/theories according to those limited data

    further i do not believe in medicine to cure any illness
    because there is only four elements and changes of elements is inevitable
    since we have no patience to wait and see the change, we rush to see doctors
    however i know it is not advisable to suggest people to avoid taking medicine for their illness
    therefore i wouldn't suggest something like that in any forum

    The problem is getting to the root of these disorders requires a pretty advanced mindfulness practice,

    agree

    and often the unquiet mind that these disorders generate makes it significantly harder to actually meditate.

    agree

    perhaps there could be a common ground between clinical descriptions and notions of the mind and our control over it.

    i do not have it on me right now unfortunately, but in the July 2017 issue of Astronomy there was an article about a scientist's critique of post modernist theory. this article similarly describes the "attack on science," i reccomend reading it https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3463968/

    i find it very interesting we are encountering new hurdles to scientific thought, not in the form of conservatism, but skepticism. or maybe...

    In philosophy, "the Absurd" refers to the conflict between the human tendency to seek inherent value and meaning in life and the human inability to find any. In this context absurd does not mean "logically impossible", but rather "humanly impossible"

    ...a backwards form of absurdism, wherein objective thought is instead **humanly possible, but logically impossible. **

    i am clinically depressed. there is a marked difference on the days i take my medication versus the days i do not. theres no telling me that isn't rooted in a chemical imbalance.
    but i also know that imbalance is only symptomatic of a larger problem that has been with me throughout my life.

    perhaps sociogenic conditions create neurological pathways which then result in chemical imbalances. makes sense to me.

    we know now not to constantly diagnose and prescribe. but that does not mean those methods need to be written off completely.

    mental illness is a huge part of personal health. for some it is life or death. when you are mentally ill you can spiral out of control. there is no balance, nothing to hold onto. at least at first the mentally ill need something regimented. medication, therapy, hospitalization.

    @upekka i am confused by your mention of elements and change. though change is inevitable, what if it comes on too slowly? if someone is direly mentally ill, they need change forced upon them through intervention. as you say, it would be ideal to heal ourselves through mindfulness. but not everyone is capable of it. and even if we are, wouldn't it be unwise to try and practice with an unhealthy mind. it would undoubtedly taint what one would find in colors of cynicism and nihilism; this has affected my buddhist practice personally

    @federica

    The reason you got mad, is to be blunt, totally immaterial.
    The fact you got mad needs more attention.

    i have been trying lately to do just this. when i get mad, i realize i am mad, i acknowledge those feelings, and then move on as simply as possible. as soon as i recognize i am mad, i try not to think, or else inadvertently dwell on the reason i am mad. so far, it has been helpful. slowly, slowly, slooowly i am more easily accepting things that anger me, or worry me. because i wrote every other moment of anger/worry off without consequence. it is easy to believe these feelings are important. as i try to overcome them, they become stronger. perhaps a part of me knows i am improving along this path, and wants to stop myself, or else lose the security anger/worry brings

    lobsterJeffrey
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @upekka said:

    further i do not believe in medicine to cure any illness
    because there is only four elements and changes of elements is inevitable
    since we have no patience to wait and see the change, we rush to see doctors

    Ok so I guess rushing in and taking that pesky chemo 20 years ago was pointless too right? I mean if I'd just WAITED the cancer would have cured itself 😒😒

    however i know it is not advisable to suggest people to avoid taking medicine for their illness
    therefore i wouldn't suggest something like that in any forum

    Good.

  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited July 20

    And just to add so people don't think it's another dig at one of your posts (even though it kind of is because I think it's a ridiculous statement)......

    I am living with a non curable, degenerative neurological disease akin to MS. The only reason I can walk, talk, work and even leave my house is due to two tablets I take each day and will have to continue to do so for the rest of my life. If, when I was first diagnosed in May 2014, did nothing and waited to get better, I'd be wheelchair bound, limited in communication and placing a huge burden on my ageing parents and teenage daughter.

    I would NEVER EVER wish this on anyone. I'm currently going through another stage of degeneration which involves daily multiple falls, constant headaches and little to no sleep. It will last about three weeks. Then my dosage on my meds will be adjusted, my aneurysms will be checked and then I'll make the necessary lifestyle adjustments and carry on. You may say medication is unnecessary because of that, but I'm still walking, talking and WORKING.

    It's so easy for any of us to make sweeping grandiose statements and portray ourselves as "good" followers of the Buddha and Dharma. But let's face it, theory is one thing and practise is entirely another. I wish you good enough health to be able to continue to hold a lofty and unrealistic view on medicine, but make no mistake, your viewpoint IS entirely unrealistic.

    lobsterJeffrey
  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited July 20

    @dhammachick said:

    Ok so I guess rushing in and taking that pesky chemo 20 years ago was pointless too right?

    i did the same thing 15 years ago

    I mean if I'd just WAITED the cancer would have cured itself

    if i knew what i know now definetely i wouldn't rush to the doctors

    however i know it is not advisable to suggest people to avoid taking medicine for their illness

    if one knows how to be mindful and have a concentrated mind one doesn't need medicene to cure one's illness
    but can we say everyone does know how to be mindful and have a concentrated mind?
    therefore it is not a generally valid suggestion for everyone
    because only the people who knows how to be mindful and have a concentrated mind can change four elements positively

    if we do not do Insight meditation we can not see the validity of the above writings

    lobster
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @upekka said:

    @dhammachick said:

    Ok so I guess rushing in and taking that pesky chemo 20 years ago was pointless too right?

    i did the same thing 15 years ago

    I mean if I'd just WAITED the cancer would have cured itself

    if i knew what i know now definetely i wouldn't rush to the doctors

    however i know it is not advisable to suggest people to avoid taking medicine for their illness

    if one knows how to be mindful and have a concentrated mind one doesn't need medicene cure one's illness
    but can we say everyone does know how to be mindful and have a concentrated mind?
    therefore it is not a generally valid suggestion for everyone

    if we do not do Insight meditation we can not see the validity of the above writings

    Sorry, but what a load of bollocks

    upekkalobsterHozanJeffrey
  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @eggsavior said:

    @upekka i am confused by your mention of elements and change. though change is inevitable, what if it comes on too slowly? if someone is direly mentally ill, they need change forced upon them through intervention. as you say, it would be ideal to heal ourselves through mindfulness.

    mindfulness is not enough
    we have to develop our ability to have a concentrated mind
    no need to go into higher jhanas (absorption), but at least we must have the first jhana
    contemplating on dhamma factors itself is enough to get the first jhana, it is not a big deal
    if we are on the first jhana, that means we are not on sensual desire (kama-chanda, ill-will (byapada), sloth and torpor (thina-midda), restlessness (uddacca-kukkucca) and doubt (vicikicca)
    see if we are not on (our mind is not on) these five defilement, is it possible a bad thing
    can happen to us on such moments?

    if we can stay with purified mind, do you need me to say what would happen to four elements within our body and around our body?

    but not everyone is capable of it. and even if we are, wouldn't it be unwise to try and practice with an unhealthy mind.

    yes, at the beginning, it is advisable to practice meditation under the guidance of a skilful meditation teacher
    once one learned one can practse alone

    it would undoubtedly taint what one would find in colors of cynicism and nihilism; this has affected my buddhist practice personally

    we do not need to show/say others that we are practising meditation
    meditation should be our own private thing

  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @dhammachick said:
    And just to add so people don't think it's another dig at one of your posts (even though it kind of is because I think it's a ridiculous statement)......

    I am living with a non curable, degenerative neurological disease akin to MS. The only reason I can walk, talk, work and even leave my house is due to two tablets I take each day and will have to continue to do so for the rest of my life. If, when I was first diagnosed in May 2014, did nothing and waited to get better, I'd be wheelchair bound, limited in communication and placing a huge burden on my ageing parents and teenage daughter.

    I would NEVER EVER wish this on anyone. I'm currently going through another stage of degeneration which involves daily multiple falls, constant headaches and little to no sleep. It will last about three weeks. Then my dosage on my meds will be adjusted, my aneurysms will be checked and then I'll make the necessary lifestyle adjustments and carry on. You may say medication is unnecessary because of that, but I'm still walking, talking and WORKING.

    if my posts gave you hard feelings, i apologise for it
    but i never intended to hurt you

    It's so easy for any of us to make sweeping grandiose statements and portray ourselves as "good" followers of the Buddha and Dharma.

    true

    But let's face it, theory is one thing and practise is entirely another.

    100% agree

    I wish you good enough health to be able to continue to hold a lofty and unrealistic view on medicine,

    thanks

    but make no mistake, your viewpoint IS entirely unrealistic.

    i know what i am talking dear

    hope i wouldn't give you any hard feelings from this post

    <3

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @upekka that is simply not true. I believe strongly in the mind body connection, and that we do have vastly more control over our health than we have been lead to believe. I do believe that a large % of people who are on medications wouldn't have to be. But mostly that comes in preventing the problem to start, not curing it once it's out of control. It has to be brought under control and then root causes learned and new habits formed to prevent reoccurence. And it doesn't extend to everyone and every condition. I'm sorry, but I in no way believe that teaching even that level of mindfulness to my son will cause his pancreas to start producing islet cells again.. It just doesn't work that way. Taking him off insulin would swiftly result in his death. Can such practices help his condition? Absolutely. There are things that potentially could have prevented him getting diabetes to start, things I didn't know about, including my very low vitamin D level the whole time I was pregnant and nursing him. I don't beat myself up about it. I am grateful for better information today. But not everything is curable by what you claim. And personally, I find it irresponsible to suggest so. While most of us are certainly capable of being discerning individuals with regards to the best way to care for ourselves, other people are not and are very easily swayed by such stuff. Such as the parents of a boy who was quickly cured of his cancer but had to be forced to do so after his mom ran off with him and was convinced ionized water would cure him. He would have died.

    lobsterJeffrey
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    @upekka said:

    @dhammachick said:

    Ok so I guess rushing in and taking that pesky chemo 20 years ago was pointless too right?

    i did the same thing 15 years ago

    I mean if I'd just WAITED the cancer would have cured itself

    if i knew what i know now definetely i wouldn't rush to the doctors

    however i know it is not advisable to suggest people to avoid taking medicine for their illness

    if one knows how to be mindful and have a concentrated mind one doesn't need medicene to cure one's illness
    but can we say everyone does know how to be mindful and have a concentrated mind?
    therefore it is not a generally valid suggestion for everyone
    because only the people who knows how to be mindful and have a concentrated mind can change four elements positively

    if we do not do Insight meditation we can not see the validity of the above writings

    I'm sorry, but I agree with Dhammachick. In my view, you cannot meditate away a serious organic disease. You cannot meditate away cancer, or a heart condition, or Alzheimers. You may be able to deal with some of the emotional stress around such conditions, and thereby improve your way of handling a situation, or even improve your general condition.

    Did you know there are hospital in Thailand just for monks? Did you know that the Dalai Lama has a personal physician?

    lobsterJeffrey
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    And that Thich Naht Hanh received extensive medical care for his stroke?

    I have read really interesting stories about people who employ a host of things to help heal themselves, including one who says he healed himself of terminal cancer. I don't disbelieve him. But for every person who has succeeded, thousands do the same thing and die anyways.

  • eggsavioreggsavior Dagobah Veteran

    I cannot find the exact story I saw before, but this article mentions how Wim Hof was able to control his immune system. I wonder how his students fared in their experiment.

    http://highexistence.com/the-wim-hof-method-revealed-how-to-consciously-control-your-immune-system/

    The human potential of mind body discipline is vastly more powerful than we give it credit for.

    lobster
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @eggsavior it is, and I in fact said I agree with that. But suggesting to a board full of people whose experience runs the gamut and who I'm pretty sure none of us here have that kind of mastery of, is irresponsible. And those suggestions have lead to the harm of people many times, including the deaths of children by parents who read such stories and think they can do it.

    Vastmindlobster
  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @karasti said:
    @upekka that is simply not true. I believe strongly in the mind body connection, and that we do have vastly more control over our health than we have been lead to believe. I do believe that a large % of people who are on medications wouldn't have to be. But mostly that comes in preventing the problem to start, not curing it once it's out of control. It has to be brought under control and then root causes learned and new habits formed to prevent reoccurence. And it doesn't extend to everyone and every condition. I'm sorry, but I in no way believe that teaching even that level of mindfulness to my son will cause his pancreas to start producing islet cells again.. It just doesn't work that way. Taking him off insulin would swiftly result in his death. Can such practices help his condition? Absolutely. There are things that potentially could have prevented him getting diabetes to start, things I didn't know about, including my very low vitamin D level the whole time I was pregnant and nursing him. I don't beat myself up about it. I am grateful for better information today. But not everything is curable by what you claim. And personally, I find it irresponsible to suggest so. While most of us are certainly capable of being discerning individuals with regards to the best way to care for ourselves, other people are not and are very easily swayed by such stuff. Such as the parents of a boy who was quickly cured of his cancer but had to be forced to do so after his mom ran off with him and was convinced ionized water would cure him. He would have died.

    @vinlyn said:

    I'm sorry, but I agree with Dhammachick. In my view, you cannot meditate away a serious organic disease. You cannot meditate away cancer, or a heart condition, or Alzheimers. You may be able to deal with some of the emotional stress around such conditions, and thereby improve your way of handling a situation, or even improve your general condition.

    there is the illness in the mind
    there is the illness in the body

    illness in the mind can be cured by mindfulness and concentration
    which improves the illness of the body (changing elements of the body positively)

    for the illness of the body,
    we can give medication (to change elements of the body)
    or
    go without medication if we have confidence in our own meditation practice

    either way, it depends on the person and his/her confidence in his/her own meditation practice

    Did you know there are hospital in Thailand just for monks? Did you know that the Dalai Lama has a personal physician?

    Buddha advised having five kinds of medicine: panca-besajja and He asked to recite the bojjanga sutta when he was ill and He Himself recited the Bojjanga sutta when Kassapa Arahants was ill

    (i am not telling anyone to not taking medication, but i am telling what really happens in this world
    believe it or not is up to you and determine to practice meditation diligently is up to you

    i have nothing to add to this thread any more, i suppose)

    best wishes and good health to you all!!!

  • eggsavioreggsavior Dagobah Veteran

    @karasti I wasn't trying to suggest anything, just wanted to share the accomplishments of someone who has worked with what we are talking about. Body over mind in unpleasant conditions.

    Wim Hof is just human. So are we. Even if we can't aspire to do what he does, the fact that he has made it so far in his journey is inspiring to me. If he is human, and I am human, then I can at least take a little bit of what he has and do it myself. I'm not running through any deserts but I can learn how to outpace the heat of my anger.

  • HozanHozan Veteran

    @upekka i totally agree with @dhammachick and @karasti. To be honest I find it quite patronising and insulting to see you type breezily about medications not needed for medical conditions. That is utter nonsense. My son has Cystic Fibrosis and is doing really well because of all the medical advances in treatment as well as his good physio and exercise plan. Should I teach him to meditate and stop taking all his medication?? Honestly!! You should think carefully before you post @upekka . 😐

  • HozanHozan Veteran

    @upekka should we stop vaccinating our children too?

  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited July 20

    @Hozan said:
    @upekka i totally agree with @dhammachick and @karasti. To be honest I find it quite patronising and insulting to see you type breezily about medications not needed for medical conditions. That is utter nonsense. My son has Cystic Fibrosis and is doing really well because of all the medical advances in treatment as well as his good physio and exercise plan. Should I teach him to meditate and stop taking all his medication?? Honestly!! You should think carefully before you post @upekka . 😐

    @Hozan said:
    @upekka should we stop vaccinating our children too?

    did i tell to stop taking medication? did i tell everybody can stop medication but do meditation?
    you are reading my posts with wrong perception

    @upekka said:
    for the illness of the body,
    we can give medication (to change elements of the body)
    or
    go without medication_ if we have confidence in our own meditation practice_

    either way, it depends on the person and his/her confidence in his/her own meditation practice

    @upekka said:
    i am not telling anyone to not taking medication, but i am telling what really happens in this world
    believe it or not is up to you and determine to practice meditation diligently is up to you

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    Moderator Note:

    If something is disquieting, please flag it. And then send me a PM advising me that you have done so.

    As comments have now been made - and it is perfectly understandable that they have been - it is difficult for me to take the thread in hand and revise accordingly.

    However,one thing, I can do.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    Now: Where were we?

    Ah yes....

    @Kerome said:
    Have you tried tai-chi or chi-gong @lobster? Doing those at speed might be a good way to work through anger in a meditative way using the body-mind complex.

    Carry on....

  • NamadaNamada Veteran
    edited July 20

    What is working for Mx Angry?

    When Iam angry iam angry, thats the way it is, just be open to it and watch.
    Dont hide it, maybe for others if you can (so they dont get hurt), but dont hide it to yourself, give it some free room (imaginery) and let the energy unfold.

    Its part of being a human, if you call yourself a smiling buddhist its just a stupid ideal.
    You can not smile all the time, anger need also some free space, just like other feelings.
    Its not good or bad, just a feeling.

    HozanlobsterVastmind
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    This is from a webcomic but I thought it showed me something about anger and how our brains are wired to get angry.

    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

    lobsterNirvanaShoshin
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Thanks @Jeffrey
    An important point in that comic.

    We are lizard/monkey/animal brained/bodied. In other words, if certain hormones, brain areas, physical needs etc are activated, all karmic hell can break loose. What to do?

    Well after my melt down ... have upped my meditation time. That is always helpful. May have to cut back on the caffeine and drink chamomile for a while ...
    Some incense would be helpful ...

    There is no permanent cure for enlightenment, alcoholism, anger, madness, old age, chronic illness or annoying optimism. Tee Hee. We just make the best choices to move towards and encourage the better options. I can like most people here, attest to the benefits of dharma practice. Today I may be extra kind ...

    Iz my plan.

Sign In or Register to comment.