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Individuality, Nonduality, Anatta, Nirvana

CedarTreeCedarTree Private Island Explorer

Imagine I am sitting at Gyobutsuji Zen Monastery in America, or Wat Pah Nanachat (Ajahn Chah Monastery) in Thailand, or Panditãrãma (Sayadaw U Pandita-Mahasi Sayadaw Center) in Burma, or at some 3-year silent retreat in the tradition of Chögyal Namkhai Norbu or Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

A lot drops off (Anatta), Nonduality is experienced, with wisdom one awakens (Nirvana).

There is a dynamic with multiplicity (Individuals), Emptiness, Awareness, Etc.

How is awakening related to the individual?

This is to be open to all traditions and view points. There may be members with not as much formal knowledge as others that yet have diamond tidbits of wisdom.

Let us be encouraging and delve into what each other presents with a lot of respect so this discussion can draw out important understandings and content.

Comments

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @CedarTree said:
    How is awakening related to the individual?

    Individuals awaken. You knew that? Tsk, tsk, picture of cushion coming up ...

    CedarTree
  • CedarTreeCedarTree Private Island Explorer

    Go deeper

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Go deeper

    Cushionlessness ???

    CedarTree
  • CedarTreeCedarTree Private Island Explorer

    @Shoshin said:

    Go deeper

    Cushionlessness ???

    Deeper!

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    Way below the ticking, kapok stuffing then.
    Back to basics, folks.

    Wooden floor.... splinters beckon.

    If anything can keep you In The present, it's a wood sliver in the sitting cheek....

    CedarTree
  • CedarTreeCedarTree Private Island Explorer

    @federica said:
    Way below the ticking, kapok stuffing then.
    Back to basics, folks.

    Wooden floor.... splinters beckon.

    If anything can keep you In The present, it's a wood sliver in the sitting cheek....

    This is the place of answers Lol

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @CedarTree said:
    How is awakening related to the individual?

    Who wants to know ? (Bearing in mind that Nothing exists from its own side)

    CedarTree
  • personperson Where is my mind? 'Merica! Veteran

    @CedarTree said:

    How is awakening related to the individual?

    "Clever answer"

    ShoshinfedericaCedarTree
  • CedarTreeCedarTree Private Island Explorer

    @person said:

    @CedarTree said:

    How is awakening related to the individual?

    "Clever answer"

    Nicely said.

  • CedarTreeCedarTree Private Island Explorer

    A poster from another forum said:

    **Awakening is clearly something that happens to a living being, altering their perspective or revealing fundamental truths, however you wish to express it, and, while those fundamental truths might be expressed in ways that involve words like "empty of a self", still, it is the sensations that previously made up both self and other that are revealed in some very vivid, clear, immediate, transformative way.

    Thus, when they awaken, from their vantage pointless vantage point, the whole field of their unique experience is awakened, but, as basically everyone who has awakened and asked other people if their awakening suddenly awakened everyone else, the answer is "no".

    So, while it can't really quite be called an "individual thing", still, it clearly happens to an individual, or a unique sense field, or however you wish to put it. When the Buddha awakened, for example, he still clearly noticed that his awakening didn't awaken everyone, as everyone else also noticed.

    I am curious to know the background to your question and what practical value you hope the discussion will have for yourself as well as others. Thoughts? **

    I think there is something about "Individualism" or "Specificity". Sometimes with our singular focus on Anatta we don't really delve into the meaning and or dynamics of this just like what happens with other parts were we get tunnel vision.

    I guess I want to explore this in an abstract and open way.

    lobster
  • CedarTreeCedarTree Private Island Explorer

    @Shoshin said:

    @CedarTree said:
    How is awakening related to the individual?

    Who wants to know ? (Bearing in mind that Nothing exists from its own side)

    The force is strong in you.

  • KeromeKerome Did I fall in the forest? Europe Veteran
    edited August 13

    So awakening and the individual. I will do a quick brain dump...

    Awakening is something that happens to the individual, sometimes in short glimpses, and with each awakening we hope to learn a little more, and the process might become better understood. The way Zen satori is handled is interesting, it is often verified by another... so if you need someone else to tell you you have awakened, are you really awake?

    In a way this is also about Mahayana versus Theravada... should you pursue your own awakening first, or try to arouse bodhicitta, the spirit for awakening all beings. For me, there is a quote by Ramana Maharshi, "the greatest gift you can give the earth is your own awakening" (I paraphrase), which captures something important about this. How could you even tell that enlightening others is a task towards which you are suited, or that it would even be relevant for you once you had awakened. It seems to me impossible to know, and you should first try to climb the mountain.

    The truth of suffering still has some influence even over the enlightened though - because suffering is inevitable for all those left behind, there will also be great compassion, naturally, and a desire to share the path.

    It could be argued that the Buddhist path to enlightenment contains also steps to becoming a mature individual in relation to others. By detaching and not clinging the character of ones relationships changes... the Buddha after all left his wife and relatives behind.

    Lastly I have heard it said, a meeting between two enlightened masters is simple - there is nothing that needs to be said, it is like two empty mirrors facing each other. So it could be that all the Buddha's who made it to Nirvana have no need to speak to eachother.

    lobster
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Things are never quite what they seem, until one is awaken from the dream

    Samsara=Mind turned outwards lost in its projection
    Nirvana + Mind turned inwards recognising its true nature

    lobster
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