Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@newbuddhist.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take up to 48 hours. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

What has meditation ever done for us?

What has meditation ever done for us?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/3wb0xx/what_has_meditation_done_for_you/

Here is some of my benefits from a daily practice:

  • More peace of mind/less suffering
  • Developing understanding
  • More awareness

What are your experiences?

wojciech

Comments

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    more ability to pause and let something go through me instead of getting stuck and following the (sometimes very lengthy!) stories my mind likes to create.
    Life seems to slow down a bit and I can take more in.
    I sleep better and with some pretty fantastic dreams!
    I understand my mind better, and so I can react better and the result has been better relationships with less drama.
    I can allow more than I push.
    The world just seems more vibrant, more alive, like everything I come across is worthy of interacting with

    lobsterMaryflor
  • nakazcidnakazcid Somewhere in Dixie, y'all Veteran
    • Certain methods I've found to be an effective antidote for depression
    • Feeling much more relaxed and peaceful/stress reduction
    • A more balanced perspective on life
    • Good for feeling less overwhelmed by life
    lobster
  • CarlitaCarlita Om Vajrasattva Hum United States Veteran

    @lobster said:

    What has meditation ever done for us?
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/3wb0xx/what_has_meditation_done_for_you/

    Here is some of my benefits from a daily practice:

    • More peace of mind/less suffering
    • Developing understanding
    • More awareness

    What are your experiences?

    So far a month of serious meditation I became more self reflective throughout the day. Not quite seen patience change. I can stop after a pinpoint what I need to work on.

  • Relaxation, calm or peace of mind is definitely an early side effect of regular practice that I noticed. I feel 'regular' being the important component. How is this different to valium, listening to trance music, Michael Sealy hypno meditation on youtube or doing yoga, exercise, craft activities etc?

    Well ...

    Some modern and ancient calming strategies obviously have considerable value. Meditation has other important components which we can experience eg:

    • Search and finding of no inherent self/independent being ☑️
    • Mind/body/emotional control/restraint ☑️ (working on a muzzle at the moment)
    • Rise of compassion, empathy, 'vibrant living' that @karasti mentions
    • Nirvana - don't tick that one - show a little restraint ☝️ :p
  • @Carlita said:

    So far a month of serious meditation I became more self reflective throughout the day. Not quite seen patience change. I can stop after a pinpoint what I need to work on.

    Patience takes time ... (who guessed?)

    Self reflection/self awareness is an interesting one. In a sense, what we experience is a reflection of our inner state of being ...

    This is what we might call The Way/Life Practice/Mindfulness. Coming from a Sufi tradition, life is the meditation/crucible/working revelation ...

    Formal meditation in Buddhist Dharma is one of the most useful practices for me. I feel it is important for Western laity to not follow the ultra humble, self effacing, 'never mention our interior state' model of Eastern cultures. Humility is a good thing but too much or innapropriately used it is not always helpful ... Dharma Pride is a form of humbly acknowledging that the path is working for us ...

    @karasti said:
    The world just seems more vibrant, more alive, like everything I come across is worthy of interacting with

    • That is something I certainly notice. It is why I often filter photographs very intensely. The camera is a liar.
    • Everything is worth interacting with, however talking to trees can still be considered weird. ;) Ah well. One day we start noticing ... E V E R Y T H I N G ...
    • Everything has medicine/revelation/wisdom to reveal. What fun!
    Carlita
  • CarlitaCarlita Om Vajrasattva Hum United States Veteran

    @lobster said:

    @Carlita said:

    So far a month of serious meditation I became more self reflective throughout the day. Not quite seen patience change. I can stop after a pinpoint what I need to work on.

    Patience takes time ... (who guessed?)

    Self reflection/self awareness is an interesting one. In a sense, what we experience is a reflection of our inner state of being ...

    This is what we might call The Way/Life Practice/Mindfulness. Coming from a Sufi tradition, life is the meditation/crucible/working revelation ...

    Formal meditation in Buddhist Dharma is one of the most useful practices for me. I feel it is important for Western laity to not follow the ultra humble, self effacing, 'never mention our interior state' model of Eastern cultures. Humility is a good thing but too much or innapropriately used it is not always helpful ... Dharma Pride is a form of humbly acknowledging that the path is working for us ...

    @karasti said:
    The world just seems more vibrant, more alive, like everything I come across is worthy of interacting with

    • That is something I certainly notice. It is why I often filter photographs very intensely. The camera is a liar.
    • Everything is worth interacting with, however talking to trees can still be considered weird. ;) Ah well. One day we start noticing ... E V E R Y T H I N G ...
    • Everything has medicine/revelation/wisdom to reveal. What fun!

    What does that mean"not mention our interior state model" in eastern cultures?

    There is a sutta that helps with mindfullness I picked up.

    Observing the body
    https://suttacentral.net/en/mn10

  • What does that mean, "not mention our interior state" model in eastern cultures?

    The concept of self-effacement is rooted in the Confucian principle of propriety, which requires that individuals maintain a degree of humility, that reflects their standing in society and promotes modesty, fitting in, not sticking out, and not bragging
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9781118339893.wbeccp478/abstract

    Carlita
  • CarlitaCarlita Om Vajrasattva Hum United States Veteran
    edited November 20

    @lobster said:

    What does that mean, "not mention our interior state" model in eastern cultures?

    The concept of self-effacement is rooted in the Confucian principle of propriety, which requires that individuals maintain a degree of humility, that reflects their standing in society and promotes modesty, fitting in, not sticking out, and not bragging
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9781118339893.wbeccp478/abstract

    Interesting. I find strength in western cultures when we come to faiths that we are connected to. I know other cultures see us being prideful on the other hand to us its a sense of independency and healthy pride of expression. Its deeply embedded in our culture which contrasts from Indian culture of The Buddha.

    Its healthy pride when expressed in a nonagressive manner. Free spirited humility of self expression. I dont contrast western and eastern cultures. Americans, for example, are not all western minded. Many are from the military and have a multicultural outlook. Others are raised out of America but live here.

    The only thing I know that many cultures can improve on is its politics. Religiously, because we have many people of different religions there is no "religious atmosphere" because to have so would deprive a persons right to freedom of religion.

    Ive never liked the contrast and word western culture. A lot of times it refers to America. We have interior values. Our politics oppress our expression of our values. Then again many cultures can learn from us. Its alright to be independent without loosing your sense of self in a community oriented culture. But one has to see the value. Good or bad is isnt important.

    I think its also hard for Americans to follow Buddhist teachings because its embedded in culture. Even the Dalai Lama adviced Americans to stay in the religion of our ancestors (christianity).

    Dont know what to really say.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    What has meditation ever done for us?

    Nothing :)

    dhammachick
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @Carlita said:
    I think its also hard for Americans to follow Buddhist teachings because its embedded in culture. Even the Dalai Lama adviced Americans to stay in the religion of our ancestors (christianity).

    There are so many problems with Christianity, I find it hard to recommend anyone to stay in it. For starters it encourages a juvenile mindset - there is always the great God the Father to look out after you. It’s an abdication of responsibility. A second major flaw is it has failed to come to grips with science, when you can adequately explain the physical world you do not need to summon up a Creator God. It makes no sense to do so. And so on.

    Great as the respect is that I have for HHDL, I think in order to truly emancipate yourself it is necessary to leave the abrahamic religions and their priests behind. Where you go from there is a personal choice, some may find humanistic atheism a more comfortable home than Buddhism. But it’s a slow process, parents fight for the right to indoctrinate their children with their chosen belief and the poor little ones as usual get the short end of the stick.

    lobsterTodd0248
  • @karasti said:
    I understand my mind better, and so I can react better and the result has been better relationships with less drama.
    I can allow more than I push.

    You have to see the mind to believe it ... What a mess (speaking for 'my mind'). :3
    Then as @karasti says, we begin to understand it, accept and allow it
    ... and gradually it falls away, nothing to sustain, nothing arising ... return to a focus ... breath, walk, chant, relaxed concentration ...

    OM MANI PEME HUM

    🧘🏻‍♀️🧘🏿‍♂️🧘‍♂️

  • When asked what bliss felt like, Tibetan meditation master Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche said, “to you, it would probably feel like pain."

  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Kerome said:

    Great as the respect is that I have for HHDL, I think in order to truly emancipate yourself it is necessary to leave the abrahamic religions and their priests behind. Where you go from there is a personal choice, some may find humanistic atheism a more comfortable home than Buddhism. But it’s a slow process, parents fight for the right to indoctrinate their children with their chosen belief and the poor little ones as usual get the short end of the stick.

    Your only mistake is to believe the abrahamic religions are the same. If they were all like Christianity, maybe I could agree with you. But study the other two for a few days even and you'd probably change that statement a bit.

    lobster
  • You also have to go quite deeply into Christian mysticism to find the good stuff ...
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/myst/

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran
    edited November 22

    @dhammachick said:

    @Kerome said:

    Great as the respect is that I have for HHDL, I think in order to truly emancipate yourself it is necessary to leave the abrahamic religions and their priests behind. Where you go from there is a personal choice, some may find humanistic atheism a more comfortable home than Buddhism. But it’s a slow process, parents fight for the right to indoctrinate their children with their chosen belief and the poor little ones as usual get the short end of the stick.

    Your only mistake is to believe the abrahamic religions are the same. If they were all like Christianity, maybe I could agree with you. But study the other two for a few days even and you'd probably change that statement a bit.

    I actually know a fair bit about Islam and the Jewish religion, including the mystical traditions of Sufism and Kabbalah. Perhaps you’d like to expand on that statement, which sounds vaguely accusatory and not particularly well-argued... personally I think anything built on the Old Testament prophets is suspect.

  • As we all suspect and eventually know, popular Buddhism, Churchianity, Cultural Judaism and occasionally shouting Allah Akhbar or 'Go Thor' is as spiritually effective as having a statue of a Mars bar (the Roman god of the sugar wars) o:)

    However ...

    Every religion has its mystery schools, devotees of the Way. For one reason or another some of us have choosen not just to offer a bit of incense to Buddha the Superman but to practice a little deeper ...

    For me that doing is meditation. For others that may be study, keeping precepts, chanting, walking etc. It is the basis of my walking the walk, not talking the trash.

    The benefits include ... well you already know ...
    https://cundi.weebly.com/meditation.html

    HozanCarlitaDhammaDragon
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I am the poorest meditator you will ever meet. I know a whole bunch-and-a-half about the theory, but the practice? let's just say I've been all mouth and trousers...

    So it's been refreshingly beneficial to actually show some personal discipline for a change, put my money where my yap is, and to actually have done it.

    I have downloaded a simple meditation timer.
    I have resisted the need to download 'Insight timer'. Simplicity, for me, is the name of the game.
    Nothing more than a timer, and a gong or bell to denote the time, beginning and end.

    So far, so wonderfully beneficial.
    In conjunction with reading small, digestible snippets of The Dhammapada, it's amazing how quickly, such beneficial practice helps....

    May you all be Happy. May you all be well.
    (I can still kick ass tho'.... ;) )

    lobsterDhammaDragon
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Kerome said:
    I actually know a fair bit about Islam and the Jewish religion, including the mystical traditions of Sufism and Kabbalah. Perhaps you’d like to expand on that statement,

    Ok, as you state that you know “a fair bit about Islam and the Jewish religion” then the you have to acknowledge Judaism (the Jewish religion) is vastly different to Christianity - not only due to the difference in belief of a saviour (Christians believe that Jesus, a divine being is their saviour whilst Jews believe the saviour has not yet come and will be a mere mortal man who’s main task is to build the Third Temple and reunite Jews worldwide in Israel), but in practises and lifestyles. And Islam again is different.

    which sounds vaguely accusatory and not particularly well-argued..

    Yours sounds blatantly condescending and not particularly well presented...

    personally I think anything built on the Old Testament prophets is suspect.

    Personally I think your post is just an excuse to pat yourself on your shoulder that you’re not a theist whilst taking a shot. You can’t accuse me of being poorly “argued” when you admit your POV is an opinion. If you want to school me about why I’m so ill informed or whatever, you need to give me an example as to why. Otherwise I can only presume my interpretation of condescension is on point.

    🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Aaaaand.....breathe......

    Carlitalobster
  • @nakazcid said:

    • Certain methods I've found to be an effective antidote for depression

    Indeed.
    Not every technique is appropriate to our needs.

    • Feeling much more relaxed and peaceful/stress reduction
    • A more balanced perspective on life
    • Good for feeling less overwhelmed by life

    Good side effects.

    Glad to hear @federica is finding benefits.

    Remember there are many approaches. I have recently gone back to breath counting as a discipline. A very rudimentary but effective concentration practice.
    https://liveanddare.com/types-of-meditation

    I also sprained a tendon this morning. Led meditation healing and some qi ong or yoga might be in order ... :)

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    What has meditation ever done for us?

    Changed the mind...and that's about it really :)

    lobster
  • KannonKannon NAMU AMIDA BUTSU Ach-To Veteran

    meditation was a nice gateway into buddhism but now its not so helpful anymore especially since i have seen what pure land practice can be. why seek enlightenment in an unenlightened mind if i can call upon amida and have him help me instead? i meditate rarely nowadays and when i do it isnt very relieving...but chanting the nembutsu is a great experience

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran
    edited November 23

    "Hard to control, unstable is this mind, ever in quest of delight.
    Good is it to subdue the mind.
    A mind subdued brings happiness."
    (Dhammapada - verse 35)

    Meditation's benefits -control of mental dynamics, presence in reality, awareness- prepare the ground for insight that leads to cessation of dukkha.
    It helps us release attachment to fixed points of reference and the need to cling to a false sense of permanence.
    Rigorous observation of our thoughts challenges us to constantly move beyond illusory comfort zones and savour the uniqueness and spontaneity of each fleeting now-ever moment.

    HozanlobsterShoshinTodd0248
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Kannon said:
    why seek enlightenment in an unenlightened mind if i can call upon amida and have him help me instead? i

    Isn't that almost like relying on a saviour?

    Carlita
  • Well said @DhammaDragon

    Quite raw and direct. Here is your mind/being, your nemesis and means to salvation/cessation of suffering.

    Onwards.

    I'll join ...

    DhammaDragonHozan
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Kannon said:
    meditation was a nice gateway into buddhism but now its not so helpful anymore especially since i have seen what pure land practice can be. why seek enlightenment in an unenlightened mind if i can call upon amida and have him help me instead? i meditate rarely nowadays and when i do it isnt very relieving...but chanting the nembutsu is a great experience

    I recently committed to Meditation in a disciplined and dedicated way.
    To say my Meditation practice was sporadic and my attitude negligent, is putting it mildly. Now after three days of practice, I cannot believe the difference it has made to my attitude and perception, even in such a short space of time.

    Meditation is at the very heart of Buddhism. It is its core essence.
    The Buddha thought it was an ok thing to do. That's how HE became Enlightened.
    If you believe you can do without it, then carry on.
    But Buddhism without meditation, is like a victoria sponge without eggs and flour.

    I personally believe you are very wrong to say that it is not helpful.

    Pure Land practice is all very well, but it's a recent construct, and one I have deep personal reservations about.
    As @dhammachick rightly points out, that's almost placing reliance on 'someone' outside of yourself. And if you have learnt anything about Buddhism, you will know that's dodgy ground you're walking on, there....

    DhammaDragon
  • wojciechwojciech I yam whatever you say I yam Veteran

    Ask not what meditation can do for you, but what you can do for meditation! :smiley:

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Ok, @wojciech - what can you do for meditation?

    wojciech
  • @federica said:
    Meditation is at the very heart of Buddhism. It is its core essence.
    The Buddha thought it was an ok thing to do. That's how HE became Enlightened.

    Yes.
    And he did not stop afterwards ...

    Before meditation. Meditate. After meditation, meditate.

  • KannonKannon NAMU AMIDA BUTSU Ach-To Veteran

    Pure land buddhism is based on expedient means for foolish beings in a time of little dharma. In ancient times it was much easier for people to find religious/spiritual connections. nowadays that is definitely not so. we are fettered by many negative distractions and systems. the Japanese use the word "bombo," spiritual idiots.

    Amida Buddha is a shortcut for me to achieve peace and happiness. the other night i lit incense before my altar and meditated with mala beads. very formal, counting my beads, kept trying to go back to the breath. i just got agitated, frustrated, and sad. my mind did not settle and it was painful as the more i wanted it to calm the more uncontrollable it became... so I started thinking of the nembutsu, counting my beads. then i ditched the beads and began chanting and bowing to the buddha statue. i was able to step out of myself and join something larger. maybe that is shinijn. in pure land text it is said that when we "do" the nembutsu we should think of amida buddha's mind and our mind as one.

    amida is also known as inifnite life and light. he is all around us, he is everything and everyone. the beautiful thing about pure land is no matter who i am or where i am all i have to do is open myself up to what is already there for me, and i will be accepted.

    this is another path for me that has helped me at my worst and i have found numerous benefits from it. it is largely based on the trikaya, which you know, is coincidentally another holy trinity. but what is the problem with that?

    no one path is better than another. but different paths can be better for individual persons. all paths have helped thousands upon thousands of people, each have their own traditions, and all lead back to the root of buddhism: wisdom and compassion.

    also, happy thanksgiving!

    Shoshin
  • CarlitaCarlita Om Vajrasattva Hum United States Veteran

    @Kannon said:
    Pure land buddhism is based on expedient means for foolish beings in a time of little dharma. In ancient times it was much easier for people to find religious/spiritual connections. nowadays that is definitely not so. we are fettered by many negative distractions and systems. the Japanese use the word "bombo," spiritual idiots.

    Amida Buddha is a shortcut for me to achieve peace and happiness. the other night i lit incense before my altar and meditated with mala beads. very formal, counting my beads, kept trying to go back to the breath. i just got agitated, frustrated, and sad. my mind did not settle and it was painful as the more i wanted it to calm the more uncontrollable it became... so I started thinking of the nembutsu, counting my beads. then i ditched the beads and began chanting and bowing to the buddha statue. i was able to step out of myself and join something larger. maybe that is shinijn. in pure land text it is said that when we "do" the nembutsu we should think of amida buddha's mind and our mind as one.

    amida is also known as inifnite life and light. he is all around us, he is everything and everyone. the beautiful thing about pure land is no matter who i am or where i am all i have to do is open myself up to what is already there for me, and i will be accepted.

    this is another path for me that has helped me at my worst and i have found numerous benefits from it. it is largely based on the trikaya, which you know, is coincidentally another holy trinity. but what is the problem with that?

    no one path is better than another. but different paths can be better for individual persons. all paths have helped thousands upon thousands of people, each have their own traditions, and all lead back to the root of buddhism: wisdom and compassion.

    also, happy thanksgiving!

    Everyone follows The Buddha differently. The parable of the burning house in the Lotus Sutra explains that The Buddha gives and speaks The Dhamma in the manner best suited for his audience. Here is the parable of The Burning House. There is a verse I'll find it later that says from The Buddha not to speak ill of other sutras and practitioners.

    I've never practiced Pure Land Buddhism. I went to the temple once when I lived close and talked with the owner of the property. We did some chanting but the way he explains the practice didn't work for me. Buddhism spread all over the world so some practices are more modern than others. I follow the older teachings but no one is "right" but how it is applied to you and how your practices reflect the core of The Buddha's teachings; which, so far I know, is universal. (Suffering. Attachments) Not all schools focus on emptiness and impermanence.

    Anyway, don't let others belittle your path. I am interested and agree, though, how you describe your path sounds more of a savior-view in comparison to an analytical view of self-salvation. The owner of the temple told me that many westerners come to Pure Land because it's close to Christianity and it's easy to convert. Also, the temple is set up in a "church-like" environment. Are you close to Amida because it gives a sense of salvation?

    Those who follow The Lotus Sutra see The Buddha as somewhat of a savior. In it, The Buddha expresses that he saves human beings from their delusions. So, in that sense, he is the cornerstone getting rid of our delusions rather than ourselves. I practice it for about four years or so. Different perspective of The Buddha's teachings.

    Is that similar to Pure Land Buddhism in your views?

  • wojciechwojciech I yam whatever you say I yam Veteran
    edited November 23

    @federica said:
    Ok, @wojciech - what can you do for meditation?

    1. Remain dedicated to practicing with all my heart.

    2. Guard my thoughts and hold my mind lightly.

    3. Approach my practice with patience, sincerity and joy.

    Above all though I think the best thing I can do for meditation is to hug my neighbors, feed my cat and pass along my bus transfers to strangers. Also, ice cream and crying and smiling and I really love to smell the rain with both nostrils!

    Thank you for asking @federica :smiley: How about you?

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    None of the above are indicative of you doing anything FOR meditation. Because it's a personal process.
    But I do get what you're trying to say....

    For my part, Mediation is a 99% one-way process. The remaining 1% is me assuring others it works in all manner of ways I never expected.
    99% of the way I benefit from meditation, because it enables me to -

    1. Remain dedicated to practicing with all my heart.

    2. Guard my thoughts and hold my mind lightly.

    3. Approach my practice with patience, sincerity and joy.

    Other benefits are also available. ;)

    wojciech
  • wojciechwojciech I yam whatever you say I yam Veteran

    OOh I like what you did there @federica :smile:

    Because it's a personal process, is exactly why I'm doing those things FOR meditation :wink:

    I am aware of the absurdity of my question, though to that I say ...ahem....the benefits of meditation are manifold!

    Perhaps if I had three nostrils, I WOULD smell the rain with three nostrils :lol:

  • paulysopaulyso usa Veteran

    hmm at the momment,not sure about this method of no method experiment ,breath and be...or just be.

  • @Shoshin said:

    What has meditation ever done for us?

    Changed the mind...and that's about it really :)

    Tee Hee.
    That is about it.

    Revaluation is one of the side effects ... :)

    The mind, depth of realisation, understanding changes.
    Change is the nature of all arisings. Buddha Nature, remember her, does not have arising, being or passing. We do. Buddha did.

    wojciechShoshinDhammaDragon
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    @Kannon said:
    Pure land buddhism is based on expedient means for foolish beings in a time of little dharma. In ancient times it was much easier for people to find religious/spiritual connections. nowadays that is definitely not so. we are fettered by many negative distractions and systems. the Japanese use the word "bombo," spiritual idiots.

    Amida Buddha is a shortcut for me to achieve peace and happiness. the other night i lit incense before my altar and meditated with mala beads. very formal, counting my beads, kept trying to go back to the breath. i just got agitated, frustrated, and sad. my mind did not settle and it was painful as the more i wanted it to calm the more uncontrollable it became... so I started thinking of the nembutsu, counting my beads. then i ditched the beads and began chanting and bowing to the buddha statue. i was able to step out of myself and join something larger. maybe that is shinijn. in pure land text it is said that when we "do" the nembutsu we should think of amida buddha's mind and our mind as one.

    amida is also known as inifnite life and light. he is all around us, he is everything and everyone. the beautiful thing about pure land is no matter who i am or where i am all i have to do is open myself up to what is already there for me, and i will be accepted.

    From the Dhammapada:

    "By ourselves is evil done,
    By ourselves we pain endure,
    By ourselves we cease from wrong,
    By ourselves become we pure."
    (v.165)

    "No one saves us but ourselves.
    No one can and no one may.
    We ourselves must walk the path:
    Buddhas only show the way."
    (v.276)

    Could we ever become too dependent on rituals and outer Buddha projections to work as a magic pill against dukkha?
    Fall in love with the raft?

    When in fact it is through development of insight which agrees with our logical rational faculties that we may attain a more lasting state of release from the grips of dukkha?
    Tapping the Buddha within?

    Hozan
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Kannon , you might like to investigate the term 'shortcut'....?

    Buddhism is hard work, and it's hard work due to our resistance to change.
    Change invariably means some level of sacrifice; an alteration of the status quo, we may be uncomfortable in facing.
    You faced discomfort the other evening while meditating.
    Instead of staying with the discomfort, and investigating its source, or fundamental reason, you sought a different route and gained a more immediate pleasurable satisfaction. An achievement... surely?

    But here, in relation to your experience - is my question: If anyone offers a shortcut in Buddhism, where exactly does it lead? How far 'ahead' in fact, has it taken you?
    And what have you by-passed that might have been worth pausing to consider?

    Not all shortcuts add to the journey, I have discovered for myself. Quite the opposite: Shortcuts are designed to take something away.

    In my experience, not only as a being enmeshed in the day-to-day process of living, but also as one whose own Spiritual Journey has been long and arduous, not all shortcuts have been of benefit to me, either immediately, or in the long-run.

    So maybe you would like to examine your experience and look back on it, to determine where your discomfiture lay, and why?
    It would be interesting....

    DhammaDragonHozanKerome
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Hey whatever floats your raft @Kannon and gives you peace of mind (and which also fills your heart with a genuine desire to help other sentient beings...)

    Bearing in mind when it comes to the Dharma and the many ways (84,000) to practice it..Nothing is permanently set in stone ...Therefore...

    Change is inevitable ...Suffering is optional :)

    CarlitadhammachickDhammaDragon
  • @DhammaDragon said:
    Could we ever become too dependent on rituals and outer Buddha projections to work as a magic pill against dukkha?
    Fall in love with the raft?

    Raft love is how Tantra works. That is why it is potentially dangerous without competent adjustment. At some point the devotion, practice investment, lama love, wood and book/polishing/body worship has to biodegrade, be severed or burned ...

    When in fact it is through development of insight which agrees with our logical rational faculties that we may attain a more lasting state of release from the grips of dukkha?

    logic eh? ... that old turkey ... :p

    Tapping the Buddha within?

    Is that like our own personal Jesus? 😇🤪🤭

    ... and now back to the meditation ...

    DhammaDragonHozan
  • KannonKannon NAMU AMIDA BUTSU Ach-To Veteran

    This conversation has been upsetting I have been a member a long time and brought up my ideas before I don't know why now it is such a big deal. I am uninterested in continuing to argue my point as I have already explained myself.

    Carlita
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    It's part and parcel of forum discussion, @Kannon. It's part of Buddhist debate.
    Don't take it personally. Challenge of ideas is what keeps us on our toes.
    I don't personally see anything that is confrontational or upsetting. It's an exchange of ideas, created to make us ponder.
    That we might disagree with something doesn't make us 'against you'....

    lobsterDhammaDragon
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran
    edited November 25

    In order to grow and mature in our practice, we should attempt to constantly review and go over our own opinions and beliefs.
    And expect them to get challenged by others and remaining open-minded in discussions.

    HH the Dalai Lama often told how debates can escalate to highly argumentative levels in Tibetan monasteries.

    We have often heard of the danger of reading just one book.
    There is also much danger in clinging fast to a single opinion or belief.

    lobster
  • @Kannon said:
    This conversation has been upsetting I have been a member a long time and brought up my ideas before I don't know why now it is such a big deal. I am uninterested in continuing to argue my point as I have already explained myself.

    <3 I am always right. Nobody realises this, especially me ... ;)

    Fortunately it is my right to not get upset. When I do get upset, this is how I know something is wrong ... <3

    ... and now back to the meditation conversation ... B)

    DhammaDragondhammachick
Sign In or Register to comment.