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Would You Eat Lab-Grown Meat?

ShoshinShoshin No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran

This thread stems from a post on another thread on "Eating meat and first precept"

@Jeffrey said:
I'm wondering if they are going to have 'laboratory' grown meat soon. Meat without a central nervous system to suffer. Like a plant does not have a central nervous system.

This short video clip may be of interesting...Especially those for whom eating animal flesh is a guilty pleasure ie their taste buds like it but their conscience don't... (who like the taste of animal flesh but not the thought of animals being killed)....

"Would You Eat Lab-Grown Meat" ?

Well would you ? :)

Um food for thought for some perhaps ....

Comments

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    yes.

  • I would prefer to.

    Yesterday was delighted to find Linda McCartney sausages again, which are delicious and my resident omnivores also like.

    Hozan
  • Resident omnivores? Humans? Cats? Dogs? Foxes? Badgers? I have a fox visiting regularly to my yard. Lovely winter coat at the moment. > @lobster said:

    I would prefer to.

    Yesterday was delighted to find Linda McCartney sausages again, which are delicious and my resident omnivores also like.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @lobster said:
    I would prefer to.

    Yesterday was delighted to find Linda McCartney sausages again, which are delicious and my resident omnivores also like.

    Even my husband loves those and he is one fully-dedicated meat eater.... I think all things considered (improvements, cost, flavour, added 'good' fats) he'd be game to try the lab-meat too....

    Shoshin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    I was watching the local news yesterday and came across a new term ..."Flexitarian" ...
    Some Buddhists could (in a sense) be called Flexitarians...

    In other words they may prefer a vegan/vegetarian diet but will eat animal flesh when/if it is offered to them...

    lobster
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Most Theravadans I know would fit in that category...

  • @Hozan said:
    Resident omnivores? Humans?

    Flexi-humans. ;) Almost human (a state as a wer-lobster, I too aspire to).

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    @Shoshin said:
    I was watching the local news yesterday and came across a new term ..."Flexitarian" ...
    Some Buddhists could (in a sense) be called Flexitarians...

    In other words they may prefer a vegan/vegetarian diet but will eat animal flesh when/if it is offered to them...

    That's how I am with chicken, turkey and some fish. I'm not able to with pigs, cows or deer and such.

    I'm not exactly sure how I come to draw the line there but there it is.

    I would try the deathless meat however I'd probably still prefer plant based nutrition if I could have anything.

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    Honestly I’m mostly a vegetarian at this point... but I think if given the choice between a beef burger and a lab-grown burger I’d go for the lab-grown.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Maybe. I haven't done enough looking into it to know how I'd feel about it. I prefer my foods be as close to the natural source as possible (and we eat as much game meat as we can from family that hunt, and we fish as well). Most of the rest of our meat that it's game is from regional small farms. We rarely buy at the store anymore, and part of that is because of how abnormal the animals are from how they are treated, how they live, etc.

    Though, there has been a week-long series in our biggest state newspaper about how consumers are shifting the face of farming by demanding better practices and better treatment of the animals.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran

    When it's at a manageable price I'll be one of the first in line.

    federica
  • RefugeeRefugee San Francisco Explorer

    It depends. We don't yet know what lab-grown meat will meat will look like in terms of its composition, but if it resembles the real thing in every detail (and in theory, there's no reason why it wouldn't) then I wouldn't be against it. There are some things like creatinine, taurine, and glycine that are difficult to obtain from a vegetarian or vegan diet, and while it is not impossible to eat a balanced diet without meat, creating additional variety is indisputably a good thing.

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    Yes I'd give it a go

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Environmentally, socially responsible and ethically it would seem to ticks all the boxes...But selling this new innovation to the carnivorous public pack,

    is no laughing matter... and is going to take some exceptional marketing...

  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    No, even lab grown meat is still not vegan. Animals would still be exploited, just to a lesser extent.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran

    @seeker242 said:
    No, even lab grown meat is still not vegan. Animals would still be exploited, just to a lesser extent.

    How would it exploit animals? Is there are large need for harvested cells or something? I would imagine that if artificial meat could be lab grown off of a few cells it could actually cause less harm to animals than the farming of vegetables.

  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    @person said:

    @seeker242 said:
    No, even lab grown meat is still not vegan. Animals would still be exploited, just to a lesser extent.

    How would it exploit animals? Is there are large need for harvested cells or something? I would imagine that if artificial meat could be lab grown off of a few cells it could actually cause less harm to animals than the farming of vegetables.

    Good article on the subject.

    "Why Laboratory-Grown Meat Is Not Vegan"

    When scientists created the first laboratory-grown meat, they started with muscle cells from a live pig. However, cell cultures and tissue cultures typically do not live and reproduce forever. To mass-produce laboratory-grown meat on an ongoing basis, scientists would need a constant supply of live pigs, cows, chickens and other animals from which to take cells.

    According to The Telegraph, "Prof Post said the most efficient way of taking the process forward would still involve slaughter. He said: 'Eventually my vision is that you have a limited herd of donor animals in the world that you keep in stock and that you get your cells from there.'"

    Certainly not as bad as a feedlot but whether or not it would cause less harm than vegetables remains to be seen.

    lobster
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    I've been an ethical vegetarian for over 40 years ( not wishing for animals/other sentient beings to be slaughtered/murdered/butchered in their prime of life just to satisfy my palate's desires ) ...
    First I became a Lacto-vegetarian ( no eggs but I ate cheese and drank milk) however whilst travelling through Southeast Asia, I got sick and ended up in hospital where a local doctor recommended whilst travelling through Asia I should at least add eggs to my diet, which (after some intense mental Humming and Harring) I started to eat 'free range' eggs, hence becoming an Ovo-lacto-vegetarian...Some 30 years later I'm still Ovo-lacto but I only eat eggs (free range) every now and again and the cheese I buy is 'vegetarian' ie non-animal rennet ...

    The interesting thing about the Middle Way is that the extreme goal posts are not stationary/static (they more often than not) shift to suit the ever changing circumstances...


  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    Wow @shoshin that’s some pretty precise categorising. I’d have to say that I’m an ovo-lacto-vegetarian too... most of the time. I eat eggs, milk, cheese with some regularity. And I sometimes diverge into a smoked sausage. I admire your dedication to knowing exactly what you are doing.

    My father is of that type too, he hasn’t been able to let go of eating cheese, but he drinks only almond milk and eats no eggs or meat.

    I think in a way it is good to take all things in moderation. There was a period when I had a lot of trouble with my joints, the ligaments in my elbows and knees were acting up. I started eating steaks for dinner and the trouble cleared up. It’s hard to know what the body needs.

    Shoshin
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @seeker242 said:
    Certainly not as bad as a feedlot but whether or not it would cause less harm than vegetables remains to be seen.

    But surely even a purist such as yourself can see it's the better choice....

  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    @dhammachick said:

    @seeker242 said:
    Certainly not as bad as a feedlot but whether or not it would cause less harm than vegetables remains to be seen.

    But surely even a purist such as yourself can see it's the better choice....

    Sure, clearly better than typical hamburger. Although, I don't think it's a better choice than a black bean burger. =)

  • @Shoshin said:
    This thread stems from a post on another thread on "Eating meat and first precept"

    @Jeffrey said:
    I'm wondering if they are going to have 'laboratory' grown meat soon. Meat without a central nervous system to suffer. Like a plant does not have a central nervous system.

    ...
    "Would You Eat Lab-Grown Meat" ?

    In the US genetically modified foods aren’t required to be labeled. So, unless something, like some fruits, is an obvious abomination, Americans aren’t entitled to know whether or not we eat GMOs, because of freedom or something. As an American who eats meat, I’m confident I will eat lab-grown meat. Will I know that I’ve eaten lab-grown meat? Probably not.

    As to @Jeffrey’s quoted statement from another thread, is a central nervous system the only way to suffer? I am sincerely less confident about that one. I apologize if that steps on any vegetarian toes. It's just something I think might be true, has nothing to do with vegetarianism, at least not from my non-vegetarian perspective, but has a lot to do with my orientation to the world around me.

    PRI: New research on plant intelligence may forever change how you think about plants

    Shoshin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited December 2017

    Interesting article/link @Snakeskin...Back in my work/study days I was quite fascinated by the symbiotic relationship that some plants have with insects, especially ants where certain plants will excrete substances that attract certain species of ant, who feed on the substance and in 'exchange' protect the plant from other insects that might cause it damage or kill it....

    When it comes to what is sentient and what is not... I tend to simplify my approach ...(which serves 'my' conscience well :) )

    "A plant is just that...Which Mother Nature planted with nowhere else to go
    Except to be pulled up, or plucked and eaten...Which is its natural flow

    They are not designed to run from danger-that's why they're meant to stay-
    And when ripe and ready they should be eaten, or they will rot away

    A 'Sentient Being' (for me) is not rooted in the ground-
    They are designed to flee from danger to a place more safe and sound

    "So if it runs on land, swims in the sea or with wings takes to the air
    For me it's not a food source...it knows pain & fear and so I care

    Snakeskin
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    @Snakeskin said:
    quoted statement from another thread, is a central nervous system the only way to suffer? I am sincerely less confident about that one. I apologize if that steps on any vegetarian toes. It's just something I think might be true, has nothing to do with vegetarianism, at least not from my non-vegetarian perspective, but has a lot to do with my orientation to the world around me.

    PRI: New research on plant intelligence may forever change how you think about plants

    It doesn't step on any toes because even if plants are fully sentient a vegetarian, generally speaking, would still be killing less plants than a typical person. Partly because animals eat plants. For example, a cow kills near 25 lbs of plants per day. And partly because of the long reaching environmental effects of animal agriculture. For example, if one assumes plants suffer, one could argue that deforestation and desertification causes a large amount of plant suffering.

    Snakeskin
  • @seeker242, I’m relieved it missed your toes. The implication of your comment gets closer to what I’m trying to express. Your comment in this context favors plants over cows and implies fewer cows is good. Plants would agree, but cows not so much. If we look at life indiscriminately, even a vegan Buddha is a predator. For every bite she takes, something must die. The monastic rule of eating once a day presumably means monastics eat/take only what the body needs. In this way monastics do no harm to themselves and as little harm to any other living organisms as is humanly possible. But it’s the humanly possible part that is the point. No matter how we cut it, there is an inherent reality of violence that, when understood, could lead to indifference but, when coupled with compassion and equanimity, should naturally lead to disenchantment. For the sake of the thread’s topic, the way lab-grown meat would be produced doesn’t change the violent reality of being human.

    Kundo
  • Would You Eat Lab-Grown Meat?


    uh.......what?...

    ShoshinsilverlobsterSnakeskin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Lab-grown Turkey for Xmas (or the US thanksgiving )... Um I wonder how that would go down...

    Snakeskin
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Shoshin said:
    Lab-grown Turkey for Xmas (or the US thanksgiving )... Um I wonder how that would go down...

    With cranberry jelly and pumpkin pie, no doubt.

    SnakeskinShoshin
  • Will_BakerWill_Baker Vermont Veteran

    No lab-grown meat for me thank you, but I have been known to enjoy vegetable lamb from Tartary :-)

    Snakeskin
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