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Ignorance is the only enemy

JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

My boss has childish temper tantrums and goes on the path of destruction. His anger and criticism was prodding me until I felt anger and a strong sense of self arise in me. I didn't know what to do because I was mainly practicing various forms of loving kindness meditation, and it didn't matter how peaceful and loving I could make myself with this type of meditation because clinging would arise in me, a sense of an angry I, and my peace would be destroyed.

I didn't know how to handle this situation and I still find myself caught in the same delusion, but have figured out how to pull myself out of it fairly quickly and let go of clinging to it.

An insight came to me in meditation: Ignorance is the only enemy. You don't get angry at an ant for being ignorant, so why get angry at anyone for being ignorant? In ultimate reality there is no self attacking another self. There is only ignorance attacking ignorance.

The way I've transcended above my boss's attacks is be constantly reminding myself of no self and that ignorance is the only enemy. When I see it this way, Right View has won the day and anger can't arise in me because the basis of anger has been wiped out.

lobsterShoshinpegembaraCromeYellowSnakeskinkarasti
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Comments

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Will this matter in a year's time?
    Probably not.
    So - why let it matter, now...?

    JaySonKundoSnakeskin
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @pegembara said:
    If a man is crossing a river
    And an empty boat collides with his own skiff,
    Even though he be a bad-tempered man
    He will not become very angry.
    But if he sees a man in the boat,
    He will shout to him to steer clear.
    And if the shout is not heard he will shout
    Again, and yet again, and begin cursing -
    And all because there is somebody in that boat.
    Yet if the boat were empty,
    He would not be shouting, and he would not be angry.

    — Chinese mystic Chuang Tzu

    Actually, there might be an element of anger there, of frustration, because either someone has been careless with their boat, or you're angry with yourself for not paying attention.
    Whatever emotion arises, the point is futile, though.

    When you see empty boats, your boat is also empty but if you see another person in the boat, your boat is no longer empty.

    Yah, but.... that's not the specific point here..... although it's an eventual follow-on...

    Snakeskin
  • @JaySon said:
    There is only ignorance attacking ignorance.

    B)

    You have widened the meaning of 'ignorance' so that it fits the Buddhist usage (which is different to common/general use).
    It is also worth considering and some of us have experience of this, when the Buddha (the awake) look around ... Everyone is awake ...

    How strange ...

    JaySonkarasti
  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @federica said:
    Will this matter in a year's time?
    Probably not.
    So - why let it matter, now...?

    Solving the problem with impermanence... I love it.

    Davidfederica
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    ... and when all else fails, there is the old Christian prayer that runs, "Dear Lord, please give him/her a swift kick in the ass."

  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran
    edited January 22

    @genkaku said:
    ... and when all else fails, there is the old Christian prayer that runs, "Dear Lord, please give him/her a swift kick in the ass."

    I already have enough bad karma :)

  • NamadaNamada Veteran
    edited January 22

    My boss has childish temper tantrums and goes on the path of destruction. His anger and criticism was prodding me until I felt anger and a strong sense of self arise in me.

    Its good to let go "inside" and keep on like nothing happend, but you can do something about it and take action. To me this sounds like harrasment and cant be very prodouctive or good for the work enviornment and I guess you are not the only one who get stamped on by your boss.
    You can go and speak to the Health and Safety Representative or the union representative, they can help you. We spend to many hours at work already and an idotic boss should not be allowed to continue to act like this without any consequenses.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited January 22

    I didn't know how to handle this situation and I still find myself caught in the same delusion, but have figured out how to pull myself out of it fairly quickly and let go of clinging to it.

    An insight came to me in meditation: Ignorance is the only enemy. You don't get angry at an ant for being ignorant, so why get angry at anyone for being ignorant? In ultimate reality there is no self attacking another self. There is only ignorance attacking ignorance.

    @JaySon ....@lobster posted this in another thread ...

    Which in a sense reminds me of Nagarjuna's chariot and the five aggregates :)

    JaySon
  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @Namada said:

    My boss has childish temper tantrums and goes on the path of destruction. His anger and criticism was prodding me until I felt anger and a strong sense of self arise in me.

    Its good to let go "inside" and keep on like nothing happend, but you can do something about it and take action. To me this sounds like harrasment and cant be very prodouctive or good for the work enviornment and I guess you are not the only one who get stamped on by your boss.
    You can go and speak to the Health and Safety Representative or the union representative, they can help you. We spend to many hours at work already and an idotic boss should not be allowed to continue to act like this without any consequense

    If the Dalai Lama can deal with the Chinese, I reckon I can deal with one angry boss.

    Dhammika
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    I would have never learned anything if I wasn't ignorant first and I enjoy learning.

    Ignorance is not an enemy, it is a friend.

  • NamadaNamada Veteran

    Dalai Lama escaped from Tibet to save his life cause the Chinese, that's how he dealt with them.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I think we mean since then, @Namada....

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @David said:
    I would have never learned anything if I wasn't ignorant first and I enjoy learning.

    Ignorance is not an enemy, it is a friend.

    I would say that ignorance is the state of not knowing, and does not necessarily point to knowledge. It is a facet of innocence. So it is not necessarily a friend, it is the absence of knowledge.

    However, that does not mean that one should charge off and start learning at speed, part of ignorance is being ignorant of what is essential. So that is the first thing to learn, what it is essential to know, and then to expand one’s circle of knowledge from there.

    lobster
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited January 24

    What I mean is there is nothing inherently wrong with ignorance like it were a bad thing.

    Imagine having no sense of wonder.

  • @David said:
    What I mean is there is nothing inherently wrong with ignorance like it were a bad thing.

    From a Buddhist point of view the inherently wrong thing about ignorance is that it leads to suffering.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited January 24

    @DairyLama said:

    @David said:
    What I mean is there is nothing inherently wrong with ignorance like it were a bad thing.

    From a Buddhist point of view the inherently wrong thing about ignorance is that it leads to suffering.

    From a Buddhist point of view ignorance also leads to awakening.

    No mud, no lotus.

  • @David said:

    @DairyLama said:

    @David said:
    What I mean is there is nothing inherently wrong with ignorance like it were a bad thing.

    From a Buddhist point of view the inherently wrong thing about ignorance is that it leads to suffering.

    From a Buddhist point of view ignorance also leads to awakening.

    But only when one recognises that one is ignorant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avidyā_(Buddhism)

    lobsterKerome
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    How can one do that without first being ignorant?

    Arguing for arguments sake is getting old don't you think?

  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited January 24

    @David said:
    From a Buddhist point of view ignorance also leads to awakening.

    It do? I feel @DairyLama is expressing the Buddhist teaching on ignorance (not required). Most of us cling to ignorance, being argumentative, ignorance, dukkha, sense of being something or other (right for example) ... or maybe that is just me ... best to leave for a while and come back emptied ...

    Kerome
  • @David said:
    Arguing for arguments sake is getting old don't you think?

    I think you are projecting.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I think you two are at it.

    Again.

    The word I'm looking for, is 'stop.'

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    ^^ That^^ was a

    Mod-note

    in case anyone was in any doubt....

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    From what I gather Ignorance in the simplest sense just means not knowing...

  • @genkaku said:
    ... and when all else fails, there is the old Christian prayer that runs, "Dear Lord, please give him/her a swift kick in the ass."

    Tee Hee. All else is quite a lot ...

    “Lord Buddha, I am an ass. Kick me away from self-ignorance and asses ...”

    Wot no enemies? No karma?
    Result!

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited January 26

    I think ignorance in Buddhism refers to a specific type of ignorance. So not knowing what is inside someone's pocket is not the type of ignorance Buddhism refers to. Or not knowing how many ants are in a square mile or something like that.

    Not necessarily responding to the thread I haven't read it all. But I've found that ignorance in Buddhism refers to a specific not knowing. Not just any like how many ants are in a square mile or who won the 1932 World Series or something.

    Shoshinperson
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited January 26

    Ignorance does not cause suffering in itself. Ignorance is our natural state. A baby is fine until we smack them on the butt.

    "Suffering is caused by the false belief in permanence and the existence of separate selves"

    • Thich Nhat Hanh

    There is nothing wrong with ignorance unless it is willful.

    And actually, thinking ignorance is the enemy only makes it harder to accept that we may be wrong and could in fact hinder the learning process.

    No, only the stories we make up to hide our ignorance are harmful, not ignorance itself.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited January 26

    @Jeffrey said:
    I think ignorance in Buddhism refers to a specific type of ignorance. So not knowing what is inside someone's pocket is not the type of ignorance Buddhism refers to. Or not knowing how many ants are in a square mile or something like that.

    Not necessarily responding to the thread I haven't read it all. But I've found that ignorance in Buddhism refers to a specific not knowing. Not just any like how many ants are in a square mile or who won the 1932 World Series or something.

    More specifically I think it's fooling ourselves into thinking we know when we don't or clinging to false views to use the Buddhist vernacular.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    edited January 26

    It seems there are different types of ignorance though, aren't there? There is the ignorance we all have, of various things big and small. Simply not knowing, and being closed off to knowing for a variety of reasons. Ideally, we are working through them to be less ignorant and more aware. But some people are willfully ignorant. They have the information to be aware and to know, but they forcefully refuse to accept it. Perhaps that type of ignorance still has a basis in the other type of ignorance, but I struggle to deal with those people.

    @JaySon HHDl indeed has dealt with the Chinese in enviable ways, but I would bet that if he had a legal recourse for someone to help fix the situation he would take it in a heart beat to ease the struggle for the Tibetan people. He does not have any routes or avenues open other than to attempt to keep an open heart and open communication. But if he had a a legal recourse to free the people from the anger of the Chinese govt, I bet he would use it. Just sayin'. He wouldn't continue to suffer, and allow Tibetans to suffer for no reason.

    If your boss treats you so poorly, there is a good chance he is doing it to others. When someone is willing to step forward, they can change things for many others. You have the tools to deal with him (or at least are figuring them out) but what about the other employees? The ones who don't have those tools? It took one strong young woman to report Larry Nassar's abuse. It had to have been terrifying for her and her coach to stand alone. Until their courage gave 100+ other women and girls the courage to come forward. If you tolerate abusive behavior, then likely so are others. Just because you might find tools to deal doesn't make his behavior ok. We don't live in communist China and we have workplace laws and rules for a reason. If the situation applies, use them. HHDL would if he could.Martyrdom is rarely called for in today's world, even if the only person who is pleased is yourself.

    DavidNamadaSnakeskin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    A funny thing Karma:)
    It may bond us to each other in an wholesome or unwholesome manner...every interaction/experience we have is the result of karma in motion......

    KundoHozanJaySon
  • @David said:
    Ignorance does not cause suffering in itself. Ignorance is our natural state. A baby is fine until we smack them on the butt.

    "Suffering is caused by the false belief in permanence and the existence of separate selves"

    • Thich Nhat Hanh

    There is nothing wrong with ignorance unless it is willful.

    And actually, thinking ignorance is the enemy only makes it harder to accept that we may be wrong and could in fact hinder the learning process.

    No, only the stories we make up to hide our ignorance are harmful, not ignorance itself.

    I disagree that unintentional ignorance is harmless. In the 12 nidanas ignorance conditions misguided actions, which condition ... feeling, which, clouded by ignorance, conditions craving and clinging, which ... conditions dukkha. I think ignorance in this context refers to lack of discernment of the 4 truths. Its opposite would be wisdom, vision. I would liken it to the difference between driving on a sunny day or a foggy night. The fog in this example isn't itself harmful, but....

    personDavid
  • @karasti said:
    It seems there are different types of ignorance though, aren't there? There is the ignorance we all have, of various things big and small. Simply not knowing, and being closed off to knowing for a variety of reasons. Ideally, we are working through them to be less ignorant and more aware. But some people are willfully ignorant. They have the information to be aware and to know, but they forcefully refuse to accept it. Perhaps that type of ignorance still has a basis in the other type of ignorance, but I struggle to deal with those people.

    @JaySon HHDl indeed has dealt with the Chinese in enviable ways, but I would bet that if he had a legal recourse for someone to help fix the situation he would take it in a heart beat to ease the struggle for the Tibetan people. He does not have any routes or avenues open other than to attempt to keep an open heart and open communication. But if he had a a legal recourse to free the people from the anger of the Chinese govt, I bet he would use it. Just sayin'. He wouldn't continue to suffer, and allow Tibetans to suffer for no reason.

    If your boss treats you so poorly, there is a good chance he is doing it to others. When someone is willing to step forward, they can change things for many others. You have the tools to deal with him (or at least are figuring them out) but what about the other employees? The ones who don't have those tools? It took one strong young woman to report Larry Nassar's abuse. It had to have been terrifying for her and her coach to stand alone. Until their courage gave 100+ other women and girls the courage to come forward. If you tolerate abusive behavior, then likely so are others. Just because you might find tools to deal doesn't make his behavior ok. We don't live in communist China and we have workplace laws and rules for a reason. If the situation applies, use them. HHDL would if he could.Martyrdom is rarely called for in today's world, even if the only person who is pleased is yourself.

    Even though the boat is empty, don't mean no action can be taken. Emptiness is not passivity. Boats, even empty ones, can hurt.

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @Snakeskin said:

    @David said:
    There is nothing wrong with ignorance unless it is willful.

    And actually, thinking ignorance is the enemy only makes it harder to accept that we may be wrong and could in fact hinder the learning process.

    No, only the stories we make up to hide our ignorance are harmful, not ignorance itself.

    I disagree that unintentional ignorance is harmless. In the 12 nidanas ignorance conditions misguided actions, which condition ... feeling, which, clouded by ignorance, conditions craving and clinging, which ... conditions dukkha. I think ignorance in this context refers to lack of discernment of the 4 truths. Its opposite would be wisdom, vision. I would liken it to the difference between driving on a sunny day or a foggy night. The fog in this example isn't itself harmful, but....

    I think ignorance of that which is essential - which includes the 4NT - is dangerous because it leads to chasing “positivism” and “happiness”. That state in which people prefere to ignore the important facts of live and ignore suffering.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited January 29

    @Snakeskin said:

    @David said:
    Ignorance does not cause suffering in itself. Ignorance is our natural state. A baby is fine until we smack them on the butt.

    "Suffering is caused by the false belief in permanence and the existence of separate selves"

    • Thich Nhat Hanh

    There is nothing wrong with ignorance unless it is willful.

    And actually, thinking ignorance is the enemy only makes it harder to accept that we may be wrong and could in fact hinder the learning process.

    No, only the stories we make up to hide our ignorance are harmful, not ignorance itself.

    I disagree that unintentional ignorance is harmless. In the 12 nidanas ignorance conditions misguided actions, which condition ... feeling, which, clouded by ignorance, conditions craving and clinging, which ... conditions dukkha. I think ignorance in this context refers to lack of discernment of the 4 truths. Its opposite would be wisdom, vision. I would liken it to the difference between driving on a sunny day or a foggy night. The fog in this example isn't itself harmful, but....

    Hmmm... I don't think I said anything about unintentional ignorance but you got me there. However, this implies we've been shown a truth and still miss it, no? I'd say that is related to but not as harmful as willful ignorance where we are shown a truth that makes sense and we dismiss it in favour of bias.

    What I'm getting at here is that without first being ignorant we would never ask the questions that lead us to a proper understanding.

    I mean, it would be nice to be born knowing the answers to questions we don't know we're going to end up asking but we learn as we go... what else we gonna do?

    Gotta be lost to be found, yadda yadda.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited January 29

    Look at the example we are given in the o/p. I didn't really want to bring it up but here goes.

    The conclusion is to see that the boss is ignorant and ignorance is the only enemy so why be angry since the boss is only being himself which is a pile of ignorance.

    I don't see any effort on the part of @JaySon to understand the bosses pain at all, just how to alleviate his own.

    Ignorance is not the enemy and seeing an enemy in anything makes it harder to understand it.

  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @David said:
    The conclusion is to see that the boss is ignorant and ignorance is the only enemy so why be angry since the boss is only being himself which is a pile of ignorance.

    The boss isn't anything.

  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    Since this post I've gotten a new job and avoided creating negative karma on my way out. Yaaay.

    lobster
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    C> @JaySon said:

    @David said:
    The conclusion is to see that the boss is ignorant and ignorance is the only enemy so why be angry since the boss is only being himself which is a pile of ignorance.

    The boss isn't anything.

    That's not what you implied in the first post.....

    My boss has childish temper tantrums and goes on the path of destruction. His anger and criticism was prodding me until I felt anger and a strong sense of self arise in me.

    So he at least was a catalyst and generator of undesirable emotions in you.

    Since this post I've gotten a new job and avoided creating negative karma on my way out. Yaaay.

    You may think the matter sorted.
    However, how do you intend to address the fact that it is possible to ignite anger and ignorance in you so readily...?

    "Everywhere you go, you always take the weather with you...."

    Hozanlobster
  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @federica said:
    C> @JaySon said:

    @David said:
    The conclusion is to see that the boss is ignorant and ignorance is the only enemy so why be angry since the boss is only being himself which is a pile of ignorance.

    The boss isn't anything.

    That's not what you implied in the first post.....

    My boss has childish temper tantrums and goes on the path of destruction. His anger and criticism was prodding me until I felt anger and a strong sense of self arise in me.

    So he at least was a catalyst and generator of undesirable emotions in you.

    Since this post I've gotten a new job and avoided creating negative karma on my way out. Yaaay.

    You may think the matter sorted.
    However, how do you intend to address the fact that it is possible to ignite anger and ignorance in you so readily...?

    "Everywhere you go, you always take the weather with you...."

    Where did I say the boss was ignorance? The boss isn't anything. The boss attached a sense of self to anger. That attachment is ignorance. But the boss isn't anything.

    I attached a sense of self to indignity and anger that arose in me. That attachment was also of ignorance. But, like the boss, I am none of these things.

    How do I address the fact that anger arises in me? Well, I'm in cyclic existence for a reason, ya know. It's called ignorance.

    lobsterShoshin
  • "Everywhere you go, you always take the weather with you...."

    Hooray!
    Well said.

    It could be a mantra:
    YA GO SUN
    YA AH SUN

    We haz mantra! o:)

    JaySon
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited January 30

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:
    The conclusion is to see that the boss is ignorant and ignorance is the only enemy so why be angry since the boss is only being himself which is a pile of ignorance.

    The boss isn't anything.

    Ok. So I'm sitting here wondering how a compassionate view can arise with this insight. Just a nice way to live in spite of the fact that nobody is anything? If nobody is anything how can anybody be worth anything?

    What if everybody is everything?

    I tell ya... This self awareness kick is our biggest blessing and our biggest curse.

  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @David said:

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:
    The conclusion is to see that the boss is ignorant and ignorance is the only enemy so why be angry since the boss is only being himself which is a pile of ignorance.

    The boss isn't anything.

    Ok. So I'm sitting here wondering how a compassionate view can arise with this insight. Just a nice way to live in spite of the fact that nobody is anything? If nobody is anything how can anybody be worth anything?

    We are working with conceptual reality here. I said the boss isn't anything to try to explain he can't possibly be a pile of ignorance.

    In ultimate reality, the boss is everything.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:
    The conclusion is to see that the boss is ignorant and ignorance is the only enemy so why be angry since the boss is only being himself which is a pile of ignorance.

    The boss isn't anything.

    Ok. So I'm sitting here wondering how a compassionate view can arise with this insight. Just a nice way to live in spite of the fact that nobody is anything? If nobody is anything how can anybody be worth anything?

    We are working with conceptual reality here. I said the boss isn't anything to try to explain he can't possibly be a pile of ignorance.

    In ultimate reality, the boss is everything.

    Ok. So we have the one extreme and then the other.

    Warned away from extremes we find ourselves in the Middle. In light of this we can live subjectively knowing the absolute. So now your boss is just a being who is suffering and acting out.

    federicaJaySon
  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @David said:

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:
    The conclusion is to see that the boss is ignorant and ignorance is the only enemy so why be angry since the boss is only being himself which is a pile of ignorance.

    The boss isn't anything.

    Ok. So I'm sitting here wondering how a compassionate view can arise with this insight. Just a nice way to live in spite of the fact that nobody is anything? If nobody is anything how can anybody be worth anything?

    We are working with conceptual reality here. I said the boss isn't anything to try to explain he can't possibly be a pile of ignorance.

    In ultimate reality, the boss is everything.

    Ok. So we have the one extreme and then the other.

    Warned away from extremes we find ourselves in the Middle. In light of this we can live subjectively knowing the absolute. So now your boss is just a being who is suffering and acting out.

    Yes, he's just a guy who can't handle his own suffering and it spills over and gets projected on those around him.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Why didn't you just say that in the first place? It would have saved a whole load of blah blah....

  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @federica said:
    Why didn't you just say that in the first place? It would have saved a whole load of blah blah....

    Why are you almost always rude?

  • @David said:

    Ok. So I'm sitting here wondering how a compassionate view can arise with this insight.

    The conceptual frame @JaySon applied depersonalized the situation, which dispelled the anger. Right view (not-self) induced right intention (freedom from ill-will). That creates a mental space where goodwill may be cultivated. It's a useful insight to retain, as the standard prescription of countering ill-will with goodwill doesn't always work, especially when someone really did do you wrong.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited January 31

    @Snakeskin said:

    @David said:

    Ok. So I'm sitting here wondering how a compassionate view can arise with this insight.

    The conceptual frame @JaySon applied depersonalized the situation, which dispelled the anger. Right view (not-self) induced right intention (freedom from ill-will). That creates a mental space where goodwill may be cultivated. It's a useful insight to retain, as the standard prescription of countering ill-will with goodwill doesn't always work, especially when someone really did do you wrong.

    I see your point however @JaySon did not really make it clear he was seeing it the way you imagine. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. The point I was trying to make is that it usually takes two to tango and pointing one finger at me leaves 3 pointing at you.

    I wasn't implying he should do something nice for the boss (I don't like the term but idiot compassion comes to mind) I was just hinting that there could be a lesson here that is being missed.

    Was the boss acting that way towards everybody? We simply do not know the specifics except that the boss was constantly angry enough that the job didn't work out.

    For all I know the guy is a slacker and the boss wasn't having it.

    No offense @JaySon, I just don't have the info either way.

  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    No problem, @David. It is exactly as @Snakeskin said. I wasn't able to clearly state it like he did.

    I'm not used to talking Dharma with others. I don't know any Buddhists and don't really know how to state what I'm trying to say as clearly as lobster can, for example. I'm on this forum to see if I can correct any of my wrong views and to help when I can. In this thread I believe I've had Right View, though Wrong Speech maybe. You and frederica didn't understand what I was saying, so I'll try to communicate more effectively.

    David
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited January 31

    Yeah, @Snakeskin seems to have a talent for wording. @Lobster ain't half bad either.

    I may not come across this way all the time but I like seeing where the compassion comes in. Like where the no nonsense logic of it all stems from because I think the worst disease to ever plague this senscience is the disease of us and "them".

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