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Meditating While High?

KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

I'm totally against it and this article expresses my reasons why beautifully. It really is against the Fifth Precept.

https://oneminddharma.com/meditating-while-high/

federicaCarameltaillobster

Comments

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran
    edited March 17

    It’s an interesting article, but I have to say I wonder about the strictness of the fifth precept. I guess it kind of comes down to the idea of spiritual progress through meditation and how that is affected by low-level drugs like alcohol and marijuana. If you believe that your spiritual progress on a metaphysical level is impeded, by all means observe the precept exactly.

    But I don’t think that small quantities of alcohol or marijuana create such an effect that they make breaking the other precepts likely. So if that is your concern, things are in a different degree. Personally I’m minded to on occasion relax the rule, and enjoy a glass of wine with family, or a whisky on my own. I have experimented with meditating while enjoying a beverage, and found it an interesting process which does not need much repeating.

    There certainly is a tendency to be more ascetic than strictly required in a lot of religion. Kind of a sliding scale where denying yourself more is also held to be more holy, or more beneficial. That said, I’ve tended to be very cautious with drugs, although I won’t preach to others about what they should or should not do.

    lobsteradamcrossley
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Meditating While High

    Hmm nowadays I meditate 'to get' high naturally ...However I have been known to partake in a puff or two in a past life... and it didn't do me any harm...(well the jury's still out on that verdict ;) :lol: )

    When it comes to how one chooses to adhere to the fifth precept ..."Different strokes for different folks"each to their own I guess :)

  • Lee82Lee82 Veteran

    Have never been 'high' so wouldn't understand.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Shoshin said:

    Meditating While High

    Hmm nowadays I meditate 'to get' high naturally ...However I have been known to partake in a puff or two in a past life... and it didn't do me any harm...(well the jury's still out on that verdict ;) :lol: )

    When it comes to how one chooses to adhere to the fifth precept ..."Different strokes for different folks"each to their own I guess :)

    No. You either do, or you don't. There is no 'how' about it. It's either one or the other.
    Simple.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    It is interesting but they really seem to be reaching in the sources department, lol.

    Decreases empathy and grey matter? Leads one to heedlessness?

    Tell me another one there, Reefer Madness, lmao.

    If one is trying different methods to meditation, how is that careless?

    And it almost tries to compare cannabis to opiates when that's like comparing apples to well... opiates.

    That being said, I find it more helpful to be sober for mediation and that includes all the drugs people pretend aren't drugs like coffee and such.

    As for the harmfulness of weed, all one has to do is have a walk around at your local hospital to find the cold, hard facts about cannabis compared to socially acceptable and prescribed drugs. Just look at the number of people in there due to alcohol. Then cigarettes and then opiates and cocaine. The numbers just may surprise you. Then have a look for the people there because of cannabis.

    The proof in that regard is in the proverbial pudding.

    All in all, I would say that the harmfulness of cannabis consumption is probably less than judging others on what doesn't work for ones self.

    But I digress.

    [Deleted User]
  • CarameltailCarameltail UK Veteran

    I think anything that affects the mind (and body) like that is not that helpful if you want to keep it generally 'clear', healthy and balanced. Of course it's true cannabis for some is thought to boost things like creativity or insight. Though long term you just feed an addiction in addition to the damage you do and even with cannabis there is short term harm to the mind.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited March 17

    I came across this interesting article....

    "An Ayurvedic Approach To Marijuana"

    Although long revered in India as a sacred plant of Shiva, ganja has, as we have seen, significant physical, emotional and spiritual impacts. In its ancient cultural setting, it has for centuries been used by world renouncing sadhus in conjunction with fasts and severe austerities.

    In such a context, ganja could potentially be of value on the spiritual path, although this author has rarely met a ganja-smoking sadhu who had attained the ultimate goal. Taken out of its cultural context and introduced into a party lifestyle unheard-of in ancient tradition, ganja has become far more problematic.

    No doubt there are Buddhist practitioners who smoke tobacco and or ganja and drink alcohol.... Just for the record....I neither drink alcohol nor smoke tobacco or ganja...I stopped doing these things many moons ago ...But as I mentioned before ....Different strokes for different folks....Each to their own...

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited March 18

    @Shoshin said:
    I came across this interesting article....

    "An Ayurvedic Approach To Marijuana"

    Although long revered in India as a sacred plant of Shiva, ganja has, as we have seen, significant physical, emotional and spiritual impacts. In its ancient cultural setting, it has for centuries been used by world renouncing sadhus in conjunction with fasts and severe austerities.

    In such a context, ganja could potentially be of value on the spiritual path, although this author has rarely met a ganja-smoking sadhu who had attained the ultimate goal. Taken out of its cultural context and introduced into a party lifestyle unheard-of in ancient tradition, ganja has become far more problematic.

    No doubt there are Buddhist practitioners who smoke tobacco and or ganja and drink alcohol.... Just for the record....I neither drink alcohol nor smoke tobacco or ganja...I stopped doing these things many moons ago ...But as I mentioned before ....Different strokes for different folks....Each to their own...

    Personally, ganga is all I partake in these days and its usually only when the insomnia/chronic dreaming phase hits or the migraines are too much.

    I also have worsening chronic tinnitus which sometimes makes me want to drive an ice pick through my temples when the migraines gives it that extra painful dimension.

    Somehow I am not at all worried about the grey matter but perhaps that's due to the ginko biloba and Maca root.

    I am basically a health nut now and in the best shape of my life aside from the head stuff I mentioned.

    Shoshinlobster
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Everyone is just so different. I have not had a drop to drink since NYE. I have been keeping a journal to note any differences, and quite honestly and noticed none as far as the effects on my understanding, my practices, my meditation, my yoga etc. That is not to say there is no difference, but if there is, it is imperceptible by me. shrug I go to bed earlier, and I do sleep better.

    I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.

    That is what it says in the article and I think the last part is what makes it hard to discern because at what point any of those things leads to carelessness varies incredibly by individual. I would have a much harder time meditating after taking benadryl or most allergy meds than having had a glass of wine with dinner. Any pain meds are out of the question, I can hardly function on them so I simply never taken them even if prescribed. Even surgery pain I have managed with just advil.

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited March 18

    Where I am from marijuana can put you in jail and thus is nothing I would consider. I did have some experiences with it in high school but quit in college because I didn't want to be smoking it years from then when I had a career and family. (so why smoke now if I want to quit then) I never ended up having the career and family but I did quit smoking marijuana. If it was legalized I would probably not start it because I am happy without it and it would make me want to eat ice cream and things that I shouldn't do! (should I start a thread about the Budda's take on ice cream? :p )

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Not that it would be remotely skillful but some days I think the feds should legalize it and then the whole country can settle the hell down already. We could use a good decade to just chill out for once >:)

    lobster[Deleted User]
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited March 18

    @David said:
    It is interesting but they really seem to be reaching in the sources department, lol.

    Decreases empathy and grey matter? Leads one to heedlessness?

    Tell me another one there, Reefer Madness, lmao.

    If one is trying different methods to meditation, how is that careless?

    And it almost tries to compare cannabis to opiates when that's like comparing apples to well... opiates.

    That being said, I find it more helpful to be sober for mediation and that includes all the drugs people pretend aren't drugs like coffee and such.

    As for the harmfulness of weed, all one has to do is have a walk around at your local hospital to find the cold, hard facts about cannabis compared to socially acceptable and prescribed drugs. Just look at the number of people in there due to alcohol. Then cigarettes and then opiates and cocaine. The numbers just may surprise you. Then have a look for the people there because of cannabis.

    The proof in that regard is in the proverbial pudding.

    All in all, I would say that the harmfulness of cannabis consumption is probably less than judging others on what doesn't work for ones self.

    But I digress.

    My cousin has smoked marijuana regularly for thirty years. He's paranoid, delusional and suffers shocking memory loss along with speech impediments, lack of sleep and mood swings that are sometimes violent. His immune system is shot to hell and he has emphysema and other breathing issues. No he doesn't smoke regular cigarettes or tobacco.

    Harmless my lily white arse. IMNSHO shrugs

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @Carameltail said:
    I think anything that affects the mind (and body) like that is not that helpful if you want to keep it generally 'clear', healthy and balanced.

    Indeed.

    Medical marijuana has many benefits for chronic conditions. So do opioids, which people are also abusing.

    If the body/mind is unbalanced or unwell do we increase its wellness or add more problems?

    Do we kill our inner demons with sedations, self medicated drugs or further unbalancing? Or ... Buddha dharma, meditation, body healing/balancing etc ...?

    Choose wisely. That's my plan. :)

    Kerome
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Holy smoke !!!

    "Nun but ourselves can free our minds"

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited March 18

    @dhammachick said:

    @David said:
    It is interesting but they really seem to be reaching in the sources department, lol.

    Decreases empathy and grey matter? Leads one to heedlessness?

    Tell me another one there, Reefer Madness, lmao.

    If one is trying different methods to meditation, how is that careless?

    And it almost tries to compare cannabis to opiates when that's like comparing apples to well... opiates.

    That being said, I find it more helpful to be sober for mediation and that includes all the drugs people pretend aren't drugs like coffee and such.

    As for the harmfulness of weed, all one has to do is have a walk around at your local hospital to find the cold, hard facts about cannabis compared to socially acceptable and prescribed drugs. Just look at the number of people in there due to alcohol. Then cigarettes and then opiates and cocaine. The numbers just may surprise you. Then have a look for the people there because of cannabis.

    The proof in that regard is in the proverbial pudding.

    All in all, I would say that the harmfulness of cannabis consumption is probably less than judging others on what doesn't work for ones self.

    But I digress.

    My cousin has smoked marijuana regularly for thirty years. He's paranoid, delusional and suffers shocking memory loss along with speech impediments, lack of sleep and mood swings that are sometimes violent. His immune system is shot to hell and he has emphysema and other breathing issues. No he doesn't smoke regular cigarettes or tobacco.

    Harmless my lily white arse. IMNSHO shrugs

    And you really think that's from the cannabis???

    Sorry, but there is obviously something else going on there you aren't aware of.

    But please. Keep judging that which you don't understand.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Whoa there...

    That last comment was wholly unnecessary, @David.
    Discussions and disagreements are acceptable.
    A sarcastic barb isn't.

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @federica said:

    Whoa there...

    That last comment was wholly unnecessary, @David.
    Discussions and disagreements are acceptable.
    A sarcastic barb isn't.

    But not entirely unexpected anymore @federica

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited March 18

    @federica said:

    Whoa there...

    That last comment was wholly unnecessary, @David.
    Discussions and disagreements are acceptable.
    A sarcastic barb isn't.

    It wasn't sarcasm though. What is being judged in this thread is not understood by the original poster and the article outright lies.

    Sorry it was harsh though.

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited March 18

    @David said:

    @federica said:

    Whoa there...

    That last comment was wholly unnecessary, @David.
    Discussions and disagreements are acceptable.
    A sarcastic barb isn't.

    It wasn't sarcasm though. What is being judged in this thread is not understood by the original poster.

    Sorry it was harsh though.

    You think I misunderstand because, from another thread, you've admitted you smoke weed. So you perceive my post as an attack and denigrate my experience because you won't/don't want to/don't understand my experience. The thing I dofail to understand is why so many "Buddhists" think smoking weed or doing other drugs is ok.

    Yes, it was harsh, as usual. I've come to expect it because you enjoy being nasty to me shrugs Fuck knows why, but whatever floats your boat. But don't worry, you won't have to put up with my posts anymore.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited March 18

    No I say you don't understand because your view is based on faulty science articles written by those with an agenda (not the Buddhists perhaps but the "studies" they linked to) and that your cousin smokes weed.

    It has nothing to do with you personally. I think you're great.

    A bit on the dramatic side but great.

    We agree on more than we don't to be sure and I for one would really miss your input if you left us for good.

    I honestly value you but I am too blunt sometimes when we do disagree it seems.

    I remember being nasty to you once when you freaked out about a joke I made about Hitler bastardizing the swastika. That was a bad day almost 2 years ago. Since then you've gone out of your way to be offended by me.

    We are here in support of each other and I am sorry if it seems like I try to be nasty to you.

    It isn't just you but a few people seem like I attack when I disagree but it seems to me that my defense usually gets seen as the offense simply because my defense is more aggressive.

    I am not here to fight, lol.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I hope you are not leaving, @dhammachick. We do not always agree, either, but I always appreciate your input and your perspective. It is inevitable that our experiences in life lead to us feeling poked and poking others, even if unintentional.

    What counts as a drug anyhow? How many people who judge others for drug use are addicted to sugar or caffeine? If Generic You thinks that excess sugar does not affect your brain and thus your practice, you would be mistaken. It has been studied extensively and shown many times to be as, if not more, addictive as cocaine. My point being that we all have our vices but society has set up some of those vices as worthy of attacking and others as worthy of quietly ignoring because we all do it even though many of them are just as destructive as others, it just takes longer for the destruction to show.

    lobster
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 18

    @David said:
    No I say you don't understand because your view is based on faulty science articles written by those with an agenda (not the Buddhists perhaps but the "studies" they linked to) and that your cousin smokes weed.

    It has nothing to do with you personally. I think you're great.

    A bit on the dramatic side but great.

    We agree on more than we don't to be sure and I for one would really miss your input if you left us for good.

    I honestly value you but I am too blunt sometimes when we do disagree it seems.

    I remember being nasty to you once when you freaked out about a joke I made about Hitler bastardizing the swastika. That was a bad day almost 2 years ago. Since then you've gone out of your way to be offended by me.

    We are here in support of each other and I am sorry if it seems like I try to be nasty to you.

    It isn't just you but a few people seem like I attack when I disagree but it seems to me that my defense usually gets seen as the offense simply because my defense is more aggressive.

    I am not here to fight, lol.

    I'm sorry, but in this instance, the 'lol' doesn't cut it. It was an unnecessary comment, and yes, harsh. Your description.

    I find it strange that people feel it necessary to continue batting on sticky wickets once a Moderator has already intervened.

    "Go placidly amidst the noise and haste
    and remember what peace there may be in silence"

    Is an excellent one to model one's behaviour, on.

    Curiously, if nothing is said, then people have nothing to respond - or react - to.

    Also sprach Federica. To borrow a line from Nietzsche....

    Do I really need to add "No response required."....?

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    The 5th precept states it is skilful to avoid intoxicants or substances which can affect the working of the mind.
    I really don't give a flying whatsit if people - specifically Buddhists - more specifically, those who follow Buddhism here - choose to drink, smoke, have coffee, tea, or do recreational drugs, of whichever type.
    Anyone can argue their stance, preferences, likes or decisions all they want.

    The 5th precept is quite clear.
    If you choose to violate it, that's your choice, up to you, go for it, knock yourself out.

    But don't try to justify it, or infer that it's ok, fine, not harmful, or doesn't affect you "much".
    It doesn't matter what your reasons, they just don't wash.

    You either adhere to the 5th precept, or you don't.

    Nobody is obliged, one way or the other to justify their own personal decisions.
    If you do, you do. If you don't you don't.
    Choice. Karma. Consequences.
    Up to you.

    I think this ranks as "a troublesome topic" alongside vegetarianism, porn, and abortion.

    If anyone else has something of extraordinary importance to add, feel free to PM me with the transcript.
    All entries considered fairly and squarely.

    Otherwise...

    Thanks, all.

    Fosdick
This discussion has been closed.