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Worldly Achievements and Enjoyment

WesternBuddhismWesternBuddhism England New
edited April 15 in Buddhism Basics

Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

Shoshin

Comments

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    There is a meditation in Tibetan Buddhism called the nine point meditation on death which brings this home pretty neatly. It consists of nine logical statements, these:

    The first Root: Death is certain.
    1. No being has ever escaped death [unless one becomes enlightened].
    2. I am constantly becoming closer to death.
    3. There is not much time to act.

    The second Root: The time of death is uncertain.
    4. The lifespan of human beings is not fixed.
    5. More conditions endanger life than support it.
    6. This body is extremely fragile.

    The third Root: Nothing can help at the time of death, except spiritual practice.
    7. Wealth can’t help.
    8. Friends and relatives can’t help.
    9. Your body can’t help.

    This is intended to make several things clear, first that one should be ready to die any time. This means being able to let go of things in this life, not clinging to them. Second, it raises the question whether you are spending your time well while you live this life. Are you deepening your practice in the dharma?

    There is nothing wrong with achieving things in this life, as long as you keep in mind that at any moment you can be called upon to let it all go and move on to the next life.

    personadamcrossley
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator

    It's difficult and requires a lot of practice, such as developing dispassion, contemplating death for perspective and motivation, developing contentment with what one has, seeing the world as empty of self, and realizing that these things aren't ours and can't bring happiness on their own and can actually cause us suffering if we become too attached (see some of my thoughts on clinging for more).

    KeromeWesternBuddhism
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    The wonderful thing about well-entrenched habits is that if you start paying close attention to them, they tend to dissipate all by themselves.

    karastiadamcrossleyWesternBuddhism
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I tend to not support any clubs or organisations, that way, I don't have to worry WHERE they come in the league table/Grand Slam/Grand Prix/Medal table.... If a club does well, well done, you're just as good as your last game. If a club doesn't do well, commiserations, but you're only as good as your last game. Winners have lost, losers have won.
    I had money once, then I didn't. Then I did, and then I didn't. Easy come, easy go.
    And I don't say that flippantly.,
    I have, in all sincerity, known long periods of genuine poverty. Going without, counting the pennies and having to budget on half a shoestring.
    I'm also lucky enough to have had money at times, when I didn't have to worry whether I should buy this, that or the other.
    Nothing ever stays the same. Everything is transitory, nothing is ever permanent.

    This too, shall pass.
    Just like a cloudy overcast sky, the clouds will clear, the sky will be blue and the sun will shine.
    Then the clouds will put in an appearance again...

    As Kipling famously put it,

    (If you can) meet with Triumph and disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same...."

    Everything is just all 'meh' after a while...

    Bunksperson
  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    @WesternBuddhism said:
    Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

    i suggest you look into Vajrayana Buddhism (i am not pushing it btw, i have practiced different types of Buddhism and feel in your case this would be the best fit.) Having taken care of my pc responsibilities, i''ll relate a story about the Buddha. Supposedly Buddha talked to a king who wanted to get enlightened but couldn't sneak off to a cave. He told Buddha he had responsibility to many people and had to continue to help them as a king. Buddha then replied that Vajrayana Buddhism was best suited for his needs, and i believe he gave him the Kalachakra tantra (don't quote me on that.)

    Simply put, In VY Buddhism one learns to use the energies of the world to help other people. So, you could do that with what you enjoy. Maybe you could get a cheerleader to kiss all the guys, some of them might get enlightened,especially if it was a male cheerleader. I would strongly suggest that you become well grounded in meditation practice before doing it though, since playing with the world's energies without a prepared mind can lead to serious consequences for you and others.

    I feel like i'm handing you a nuclear weapon without any instructions , but this is my best recommendation for what you want. In any case, please develop an authentic meditation practice, one that helps you look at your mind( it's not yours actually, the practice may help you see that some day) and is not involved with reaching higher planes , consciousness, bhumis, realms etc. Best of luck and have fun.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @WesternBuddhism said:
    Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

    In a nutshell....By practising the Dharma ... :)

    And by doing so eventually you will come to realise (all by your self ) what's what and what's not... There's no magic bullet (train)... Right effort (along with the seven other 'rights') is what's needed :)...Then things will gradually fall into place :)

    BunksWesternBuddhism
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @WesternBuddhism said:
    Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

    Who is stopping you? B)

    adamcrossley
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    One of the Lamrim topics in the Gelug Tibetan Tradition is to meditate on the amount of time we waste worrying about the "Eight Worldly Concerns" (broken in to four pairs):

    1. Loss and Gain
    2. Praise and Blame
    3. Infamy and Fame
    4. Pleasure and Pain

    Worth checking out....

    lobsterWesternBuddhism
  • @WesternBuddhism said:
    Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

    Begin with the end in mind.
    A good metaphor for this

    The creation of a mandala, the representation of the world in divine form, perfectly balanced, precisely designed, is meant to reconsecrate the earth and heal its inhabitants. But it is more than a picture. Sand painting is an intricate process. It requires millions of pieces of sand to make a mandala five by five feet square. It requires a team of monks working anywhere from days to weeks, depending on the size of the mandala, to create this floor plan of the sacred mansion that is life. It requires the interplay of vivid colors and ancient symbols.

    The monks bend over the piece for hours on end, dropping one grain of sand after another into intricate symbolic patterns. The purpose is to call the community to meditation and awareness of something larger than their own small world.

    But the process itself, as laborious, as precise, as artistic, as stunningly powerful as it is, is not really the message.

    When the mandala is finally finished, however long it takes for the monks to deal in this divine geometry of the heavens, they pray over it — and then they destroy it. They sweep it up, every last grain of sand and give handfuls of it away to those who participate in the closing ceremony as a final memory of sublime possibility. Then they throw the rest of the sand into the nearest living stream to be swept into the ocean to bless the whole world. And that’s it. It’s gone. In an instant, after all that artistry, all that work, it’s over.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/sister-joan-chittister-osb/mandala-why-destroy-it_b_970479.html

    Bunks
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @Tsultrim said:

    @WesternBuddhism said:
    Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

    i suggest you look into Vajrayana Buddhism (i am not pushing it btw, i have practiced different types of Buddhism and feel in your case this would be the best fit).

    Vajrayana is generally said to require a teacher, and is one of the more esoteric branches of Buddhism with many initiations, so it may not be as easily accessible where you are. But it all depends on whether it resonates - if you look at how it works and you get a feeling of “this is it, I’ve come home”, then it may be the direction for you.

    In general I would say that any Buddhist direction will have a focus on insight, and that is always very beneficial.

  • @lobster said:
    Who is stopping you? B)

    Have you been reading Lion's Roar again?

    Someone asked Shitou, “What am I supposed to do?”
    “Why are you asking me?”
    “Where else can I find what I’m looking for?”
    “Are you sure you lost it?”
    - Joan Sutherland

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Tee Hee. <3

    I did read that Roshi Joan Sutherland piece. Nobody stopped me, not even me ...

  • @Bunks said:
    One of the Lamrim topics in the Gelug Tibetan Tradition is to meditate on the amount of time we waste worrying about the "Eight Worldly Concerns" (broken in to four pairs):

    1. Loss and Gain
    2. Praise and Blame
    3. Infamy and Fame
    4. Pleasure and Pain

    Worth checking out....

    so, basically become more present and stop worrying as much?

  • WesternBuddhismWesternBuddhism England New
    edited April 16

    @Shoshin said:

    @WesternBuddhism said:
    Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

    In a nutshell....By practising the Dharma ... :)

    And by doing so eventually you will come to realise (all by your self ) what's what and what's not... There's no magic bullet (train)... Right effort (along with the seven other 'rights') is what's needed :)...Then things will gradually fall into place :)

    great video thank you!

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @WesternBuddhism said:

    @Bunks said:
    One of the Lamrim topics in the Gelug Tibetan Tradition is to meditate on the amount of time we waste worrying about the "Eight Worldly Concerns" (broken in to four pairs):

    1. Loss and Gain
    2. Praise and Blame
    3. Infamy and Fame
    4. Pleasure and Pain

    Worth checking out....

    so, basically become more present and stop worrying as much?

    Yeah, just about sums it up, really!

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    @WesternBuddhism said:

    @Bunks said:
    One of the Lamrim topics in the Gelug Tibetan Tradition is to meditate on the amount of time we waste worrying about the "Eight Worldly Concerns" (broken in to four pairs):

    1. Loss and Gain
    2. Praise and Blame
    3. Infamy and Fame
    4. Pleasure and Pain

    Worth checking out....

    so, basically become more present and stop worrying as much?

    Yes! Easier said than done obviously - patience and persistence are required.

    lobster
  • @WesternBuddhism said:
    Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

    Awareness + mindfulness + time. If, every day, awareness of experience is coupled with mindfulness of impermanence, then attachment diminishes.

    “Before my enlightenment … it occurred to me: ‘What is the gratification in the world, what is the danger in the world, what is the escape from the world?’ Then it occured to me: ‘Whatever pleasure and joy there is in the world, this is the gratification in the world; that the world is impermanent, bound up with suffering, and subject to change, this is the danger in the world; the removal and abandoning of desire and lust for the world, this is the escape from the world.’”
    -- AN 3.103

    ShoshinBunks
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited April 18

    @WesternBuddhism said:
    Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

    There's nothing wrong with achieving things in this world. Why, exactly, would that be a problem, OP? What is your concern, there?

    What do you mean by "enjoying these"? What form does your enjoyment take? Are you using these achievements in order to praise yourself, and inflate your ego? Or, conversely, are you regarding your money-earning achievements humbly, as something that enables you to provide for a family, or for your secure future? Do you see the difference between those two attitudes? If you attach self-image to your material blessings, then it's a problem. If you don't, then--not an issue.

    If you could clarify your concern a bit, we could be of more help. But I think the main point is simply to not get caught up in it all; don't get ego-involved in it. See what I mean? For example, think of your job and its salary as a form of service. This could be service to your family, or to the community, or to your employer.

    BunksWesternBuddhism
  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    Livelihood , from the buddhist perspective I'm familiar with, is simply a way to support oneself in the Dharma. We work to have the means to take time off for retreats or programs or acting as a helper to the teacher. Or maybe we're considering doing a three year retreat. The Dharma can be expensive in this day and age. Of course, one can still find a cheap cave. I suggest the U.S. mountain states for that, but I'm sure people on the forum know other good places.

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @WesternBuddhism said:
    Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

    Somewhere in all the variety of answers ... Something will resonate and be suitable. In time, with practice, money and other sport - attachments - may lessen their hold on your being ... 🏆🧘🏻‍♂️🥇

    In other words you will change. It is inevitable. Sorry about that, it is a Buddhist thing ... 💗

    Bunksadamcrossley
  • @Dakini said:

    @WesternBuddhism said:
    Hello, how can I incorporate achieving things in the world- e.g. money, sporting, as well as enjoying these things fully without attachment while practicing Buddhism?

    There's nothing wrong with achieving things in this world. Why, exactly, would that be a problem, OP? What is your concern, there?

    What do you mean by "enjoying these"? What form does your enjoyment take? Are you using these achievements in order to praise yourself, and inflate your ego? Or, conversely, are you regarding your money-earning achievements humbly, as something that enables you to provide for a family, or for your secure future? Do you see the difference between those two attitudes? If you attach self-image to your material blessings, then it's a problem. If you don't, then--not an issue.

    If you could clarify your concern a bit, we could be of more help. But I think the main point is simply to not get caught up in it all; don't get ego-involved in it. See what I mean? For example, think of your job and its salary as a form of service. This could be service to your family, or to the community, or to your employer.

    I’ll be honest, when I was about 14 I wanted to get an economics degree, and work my way up only caring about money as I saw this as happiness, I’m so thankful for the change in myself😂 Now it’s more I would love to earn as much as I can for 2 reasons- To invest as much as I can so I become financially free and have to option to retire from a young age hopefully, and then so I can experience as much as this world has to offer through experiences and travelling, of course a nice car& house would be lovely and nice things etc, but they’re not my main focus anymore.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 20

    Whatever happens, there you are.
    If you cannot find happiness, peace, contentment, where you are right now - then where else do you expect to find it?

    Everything falls away, until you are left with just you and your dying body.

    I have had 3 people known to me, die over the past 6 months.
    Not a one of them was over 35.

    It's not the how, it's not the why.

    Death is not the great unknown.
    It's the when.
    Yama has his own ideas. And when he beckons, one cannot resist.

    Think on that while you strive to earn enough to retire young.

    WesternBuddhismlobster
  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    "Wherever you go there you are." Buckaroo Bonzai

    lobster
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