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I AM

ShoshinShoshin No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran
edited May 15 in General Banter

Sometimes "I" think...
I am all
I am Buddhist
I am curious
I am deluded
I am empty
I am full
I am grateful
I am happy
I am ignorant
I am joyful
I am kind
I am lonely
I am mindful
I am noisy
I am optimistic
I am proud
I am quiet
I am right
I am sad
I am tearful
I am undecided
I am victorious
I am wrong
I am xenophobic
I am yearning
I am zero
Am I all of the above? Am I some of the above? Am I none of the above ?
Who am "I" really ?

Hmm perhaps I am really nothing special ... :)

KundoBuddhadragonSocair
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Comments

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    Who asked the question? Sound familiar? ;)

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited May 15

    @Tsultrim said:
    Who asked the question? Sound familiar? ;)

    I am curious....Who wants to know ? ;)

    KundoBuddhadragon
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I am because we are.

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    @Shoshin said:

    @Tsultrim said:
    Who asked the question? Sound familiar? ;)

    I am curious....Who wants to know ? ;)

    Who wants to know wants to know. You're not curious, there is just curiosity.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @Tsultrim said:

    You're not curious, there is just curiosity.

    ....Yes "I" am ;)

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    No "you" aren't.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @Tsultrim said:
    No "you" aren't.

    ...Who said that ??? ;)

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    Who wants to know said that, and that's who heard it too.

    Shoshin
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Welcome to the Not-pissing contest, everyone...

    BuddhadragonKundoSocair
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    So is Who wants to know and that's who heard it "curious" ? ;)

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran

    @federica said:
    Welcome to the Not-pissing contest, everyone...

    It came across as a famous comedy routine to me

    ShoshinfedericaBuddhadragonSocair
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    You don't say ;) :lol:

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @person said:

    @federica said:
    Welcome to the Not-pissing contest, everyone...

    It came across as a famous comedy routine to me

    Yup, gotcha. I see what you mean - !

    person
  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    @Shoshin said:
    So is Who wants to know and that's who heard it "curious" ? ;)

    Very much so.

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    @person said:

    @federica said:
    Welcome to the Not-pissing contest, everyone...

    It came across as a famous comedy routine to me

    It's actually a cosmic joke.

    person
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @Tsultrim and "I" are just having fun/enjoying our selves nothing serious well apart from getting other "I" ams to perhaps think about who they are in the scheme of things...which in a sense is nothing really special ...Just a bundle of selves jockeying for position ...when the mood takes us so to speak :)

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    @Shoshin said:
    @Tsultrim and "I" are just having fun/enjoying our selves nothing serious well apart from getting other "I" ams to perhaps think about who they are in the scheme of things...which in a sense is nothing really special ...Just a bundle of selves jockeying for position ...when the mood takes us so to speak :)

    There is no need to jockey for position in emptiness. It's everywhere, so one place is as good as another.

    Shoshin
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited May 15

    I am, therefore I write.
    A different combination of things you've probably already read before, perhaps;
    but my existence transcends mediocrity all the same.
    You read, and I am manifest;
    words, dancing from my fingertips and pirouetting onto the screen,
    giving my amorphous soul shape and form.
    Words, floating through cyberspace,
    drifting towards an unknown destination,
    a time capsule of thoughts and emotions to be discovered by you.
    Words, screaming 'HERE I AM!'
    Subject and object merging together as one;
    for at least a fleeting moment, eternity unfolds between the two of us.
    Words, consumed by your eyes.
    Hopefully enjoyed, maybe despised;
    but here I am, naked and bare, unashamed of my humanity,
    my insatiable desire to be acknowledged.
    It doesn't really matter what I say,
    as long as I say it well enough to capture your gaze,
    the gaze which validates my being,
    and breathes life into my clumsily assembled vicariousness.
    I write because I don't want to be alone,
    even if my ephemeral companion is unknown and thousands of miles away.
    Even in my solitude, I am a social creature it seems.
    I write, therefore I am.

    DavidShoshinBuddhadragonSocair
  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    Poem in Response to Jason's Poem

    I am not, therefore i write
    Because i want you to know the same,
    Some way to relieve your pain.

    No matter what i write
    I never have a shape or form
    For i am nothingness that knows.

    My words scream, "Here I Am Not""
    And subject and object are never parted,
    Even for a fleeting moment.

    I am not here displaying what it really means to be human
    For any desire to do so will certainly separate us.

    My being is unchanged, validated or not,
    For true being is impervious to conditions.

    I write because i'm not, and want you to see
    There is a way to peace and freedom.

    We are all social creatures in emptiness,
    Therefore I write so that one day we will meet there.

    DavidShoshin
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited May 16

    @Tsultrim said:

    @Shoshin said:

    @Tsultrim said:
    Who asked the question? Sound familiar? ;)

    I am curious....Who wants to know ? ;)

    Who wants to know wants to know. You're not curious, there is just curiosity.

    But there is more than just curiosity. The curiosity in question has a point of origin and was caused by incoming information. The information was received and so the curiosity about the source of information was formulated.

    I use labels as handy tools of exploration and expression without needing a permanent identification to cling to but my actions are a different story. These I own.

    I may not be a thing in the conventional sense that takes up space but I express qualities as if I were. So I relate to somethingness which could be akin to nothingness except that there is no such thing as nothing. Nothingness then implies qualities which by definition cannot exist or be demonstrated by anything including that which does not exist.

    Shoshin
  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    I'll make this short because I'm posted out. You don't own anything. The nothingness I speak of is inseparable from awareness, it's commonly called emptiness or sunyata in Buddhism. It is an experience without an experiencer.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited May 16

    @Tsultrim said:
    I'll make this short because I'm posted out. You don't own anything. The nothingness I speak of is inseparable from awareness, it's commonly called emptiness or sunyata in Buddhism. It is an experience without an experiencer.

    That sounds nice and all but if nothingness is inseparable from awareness then it makes more sense to say awareness and not nothingness. Afterall, the idea is to be ever more aware, not ever more non-existent.

    It shouldn't take too much practice to figure out you don't exist since if you didn't exist you couldn't practice anything really, could you?

    I do own my actions and so I take full responsibility for them. Cause and effect. My actions can cause pain to myself and others and so it would be wise to put them to constructive use and be mindful of my compassion to wisdom ratio.

    Sunyata makes more sense as potential than nothingness to me but then here I am so I could be a bad example.

    Maybe somebody that isn't here will have a better take.

    I will just reference the Upajjhatthana Sutta for referencings sake. "I am the owner of my actions".

    Oh, welcome by the way. If I sound cheeky it's because I am.

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran
    edited May 16

    @David said:

    @Tsultrim said:
    I'll make this short because I'm posted out. You don't own anything. The nothingness I speak of is inseparable from awareness, it's commonly called emptiness or sunyata in Buddhism. It is an experience without an experiencer.

    That sounds nice and all but if nothingness is inseparable from awareness then it makes more sense to say awareness and not nothingness. Afterall, the idea is to be ever more aware, not ever more non-existent.

    Awareness is nothingness. If you don't think so, try to get a glass of it. Ever more aware until you become it. Yes you go through a phase of more nonexistence: nonexistence of self, nonexistence of other and the big nonexistence or emptiness when the nonexistences are seen to be the same.

    It shouldn't take too much practice to figure out you don't exist since if you didn't exist you couldn't practice anything really, could you?

    It takes a lot of practice and an aptitude to see you don't exist. When you don't exist you can practice everything better because ego and duality aren't in the way.

    I do own my actions and so I take full responsibility for them. Cause and effect. My actions can cause pain to myself and others and so it would be wise to put them to constructive use and be mindful of my compassion to wisdom ratio.

    You don't own anything , there's no you. There are actions but no actor. Emptiness has never known cause and effect. We are in the absolute world now, governed by absolute truth. Compassion and wisdom are the nature of that world, and they see to responsible action. We have gone from behavior modification to realization now, from trying to being.

    Sunyata makes more sense as potential than nothingness to me but then here I am so I could be a bad example.

    Sunyata is not potential it is the true nature of Mind and reality.

    Maybe somebody that isn't here will have a better take.

    I'm not here and you're getting my take.

    I will just reference the Upajjhatthana Sutta for referencings sake. "I am the owner of my actions".

    That's true until there is no owner.

    Oh, welcome by the way. If I sound cheeky it's because I am.

    Hello to you as well. No you're not cheeky, you're nothing and any reference points to you as cheeky or anything else only makes nothingness harder to realize.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @David said: I will just reference the Upajjhatthana Sutta for referencings sake. "I am the owner of my actions".

    @Tsultrim said: That's true until there is no owner.

    Yeah, right. There is no owner' until said owner drops a non-brick on their non-foot, then hops around like some demented non-dunce on a non-pogo-stick cursing said non-brick.

    Non?

    It's confusing when two channels of a tradition are discussed as one.

    Original meets Pseudo-Esoteric.

    It's never going to end well.

    Buddhadragon
  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran
    edited May 16

    I do not think, therefore I am not.
    Or maybe I am.
    A bundle of loosely-tied aggregates.
    Who cares?
    I am just passing by and enjoying the view

    ShoshinDavidSocair
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    I am in the habit of having my say and when all is said and done
    contemplation come back into play -as the ego's overrun

    The ego is in the habit of cropping up when least expected and to think otherwise is being ...well egotistical ;)

  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    "I think therefore I am."

    So what happens when you don't think? =)

    Shoshin
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    All these things I write
    Are just pale shadows
    Rough reflections of thought
    Passing through language
    And electronics
    From my mind to your mind!

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited May 16

    @Tsultrim said:

    @David said:

    @Tsultrim said:
    I'll make this short because I'm posted out. You don't own anything. The nothingness I speak of is inseparable from awareness, it's commonly called emptiness or sunyata in Buddhism. It is an experience without an experiencer.

    That sounds nice and all but if nothingness is inseparable from awareness then it makes more sense to say awareness and not nothingness. Afterall, the idea is to be ever more aware, not ever more non-existent.

    Awareness is nothingness. If you don't think so, try to get a glass of it. Ever more aware until you become it. Yes you go through a phase of more nonexistence: nonexistence of self, nonexistence of other and the big nonexistence or emptiness when the nonexistences are seen to be the same.

    There's the problem from where I sit. You figure that if something takes up no space it doesn't exist but emptiness denotes change which denotes potential, not a magic nothing.

    In my experience awareness is more akin to somethingness than nothingness. Being aware is not the same as being nothing but I could see being no thing in particular. Potential means anything is possible if conditions allow but nothing means absolutely nothing. No illusion, no anything.

    But you seem pretty sure of yourself so I'll leave you to your non-existence where that which doesn't exist must argue the point.

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    @seeker242 said:
    "I think therefore I am."

    So what happens when you don't think? =)

    Really, you aren't, but you mistakenly believe that you are. Whether you think or don't think doesn't change that fact.
    From a Buddhist insight standpoint Descartes was way off.
    I see you come from a long lineage of seekers (242). Keep going. =)

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran
    edited May 16

    @Kerome said:
    All these things I write
    Are just pale shadows
    Rough reflections of thought
    Passing through language
    And electronics
    From my mind to your mind!

    Hi Kerome, your short poem stimulates me to do one myself.

    All these things i write are messages from emptiness
    And are themselves empty.
    They arise from no one and are sent to know one.
    Nothingness that knows creates them
    And they pass through nothingness
    To nothingness that understands them.
    The empty awareness that we are is naturally kind and caring
    And its messages are well understood by their recipients.
    There is a smile, warmth, and things continue as they always are
    Always have been and always will be.

  • SocairSocair Veteran
    edited May 16

    =)

  • SocairSocair Veteran
    edited May 16

    =)

  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    @Tsultrim said:
    From a Buddhist insight standpoint Descartes was way off.

    I don't think it's too far off. =) What is this "I, me, mine" other than a mere thought with no substantial essence?

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    There's the problem from where I sit. You figure that if something takes up no space it doesn't exist but emptiness denotes change which denotes potential, not a magic nothing.

    Things both exist and don't exist in the absolute world. They don't exist because they are empty, without thingness, but they do exist because they can be experienced without an experiencer. Examples used are mirages, rainbows etc. Emptiness is unchanging, how could emptiness change? In a sense you may say emptiness has potential: like the ocean has the potential to make waves, the emptiness of mind has the potential to make thoughts and emotions which are also empty. Yes, when first experienced the nothingness of mind is quite magical, and seeing the world become unreal because of it is also quite remarkable. But nothingness that knows is not magic to those who are it. We don't feel its magical to have a tongue do we?

    In my experience awareness is more akin to somethingness than nothingness. Being aware is not the same as being nothing but I could see being no thing in particular. Potential means anything is possible if conditions allow but nothing means absolutely nothing. No illusion, no anything.

    Well we are not aware, awareness is self existing. And it is inseparable from emptiness and as a result is not a thing, not something, Being aware is exactly the same as being nothing, the you that is not you is nothing as is awareness. I like nothing because it is expressive of the true nature of mind, but those who only know the words in Dharma, create a sense of nihilism when they use it. In some cases the better term is emptiness which includes such things as awareness, vastness, caring, warmth, nonduality etc.

    But you seem pretty sure of yourself so I'll leave you to your non-existence where that which doesn't exist must argue the point.

    I don't have a self, the assurance comes from the experience of mind's true nature (woae). It's like if i asked you about what's in your living room when you weren't there, and you looked with the mind's eye and said, "Well i have my chair, my hookah and my bearskin rug." Yes indeed, but rather than argue i prefer to clarify the point.

    Like the barely understandable messages after a TV ad that protects the companies from law suits, i would like to say, a bit more legibly, what is going on with these comments of mine.

    First, although said differently at times, they do not differ from the words of my teacher Chogyam Trungpa, Rinpoche or other respected teachers of the Kagyu, Nyingma and Zen traditions. I invite you to read the Rain of Wisdom, dohas by past teachers in the Kagyu lineage as a start, and of course the vast, profound literature of Chogyam Trungpa, Rinpoche.

    Secondly, my comments come from the absolute world governed by absolute truth, where emptiness, self existing awareness, nonduality, loving kindness are the norm. For those who don't share that world the words can be mystifying or to some absurd. They are not meant to obfuscate however, but to describe the nature of the absolute world. The words used are our first tongue from a place that is our ancestral home.
    If we wish to return to that home we must have a great teacher, enlightenment in the flesh, authentic enlightenment teachings, and a sangha that is devoted to the teacher and teachings, as well as a good deal of luck, some may call it karma.
    Thank you @ David for the excellent questions,cheekiness can be a good thing in the Dharma. Some of us have bet our lives on it and it helps in getting to the truth.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    "I" too at times might talk out my ass
    But as with all things anicca... this too shall pass ;) :)

    At times...
    I am ignorant
    I am deluded
    But for the most part...
    I am empty

    For which I am grateful :)

    Socair
  • SocairSocair Veteran

    @Tsultrim said:

    @seeker242 said:
    "I think therefore I am."

    So what happens when you don't think? =)

    Really, you aren't, but you mistakenly believe that you are. Whether you think or don't think doesn't change that fact.
    From a Buddhist insight standpoint Descartes was way off.
    I see you come from a long lineage of seekers (242). Keep going. =)

    Tsultrim sometimes you come across as quite condescending. Have I got it wrong?

  • TsultrimTsultrim Hawaii Veteran

    @Socair said:

    @Tsultrim said:

    @seeker242 said:
    "I think therefore I am."

    So what happens when you don't think? =)

    Really, you aren't, but you mistakenly believe that you are. Whether you think or don't think doesn't change that fact.
    From a Buddhist insight standpoint Descartes was way off.
    I see you come from a long lineage of seekers (242). Keep going. =)

    Tsultrim sometimes you come across as quite condescending. Have I got it wrong?

    I hope so @Socair.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    At times "I" (also) think ...
    I am Condescending
    I am Hopeful

    Hmm... more to add to the list of "I Ams"

    The list that "I" am (so it would seem) is never ending...I am gobsmacked ... ;)

    Socair
  • SocairSocair Veteran

    Gobsmacked?? @Shoshin ! Why? Do tell? ;)

    Shoshin
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Are we still on topic.......?

    Socair
  • SocairSocair Veteran
    edited May 16

    @federica said:
    Are we still on topic.......?

    I AM ;)

    Shoshinpersonseeker242
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @Socair said:
    Gobsmacked?? @Shoshin ! Why? Do tell? ;)

    "I" seem to go on and on and on and on... like a never ending story ;) :lol:

    Socair
  • SocairSocair Veteran
    edited May 16

    You are lovely @shoshin. 💚💚💚 I AM certain of that.

    @federica and @Shoshin does an I AM incorporated into a post on this thread automatically keep it on topic? ;)

    Just askin' for a friend..:D

    Shoshin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @Socair said:
    You are lovely @shoshin. 💚💚💚 I AM certain of that.

    @federica and @Shoshin does an I AM incorporated into a post on this thread automatically keep it on topic? ;)

    Just askin' for a friend..:D

    I would say yes....I am happy with that :)

    Socair
  • SocairSocair Veteran

    Shoshin
  • SocairSocair Veteran

    lobsterShoshin
  • paulysopaulyso usa Veteran

    i am tired.
    busy working,
    sharp and focus,
    to make that money.

    buddhist practice paying off.
    intention,
    energize ,power through,finish strong.
    the day is long,
    but the sleep is good.

    good night or good day,
    whereever you are.

    peace,praise enlightenment and work(mind,body,breath).

    Shoshin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited May 17

    The more "I am" thinking about how "I am" mentioned, the more insignificant I am becoming...I am (so it would seem) cropping up everywhere...in all kinds of situations and conversations :)

    "I" guess it helps 'me' to see/understand that "I am" not a permanent unchanging entity. and just like a chameleon changing colours to suit its background..."I am" changing all the time to suit the environment that "I" find my "self" in... so to speak... :)

    Just some food for thought to contemplate :)

    Socairlobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Hmm perhaps I am really nothing special ...

    B)
    Most of us, well I am, are aware of 'dependent arising' ...
    http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/depend.htm

    As the import of essence grasping increasingly dissolves, not into nothing, that is zombie or Alzheimer mode, we increasingly become aware of a sense or state of non-being.

    Nun or none-being is an ideal of Dharma. The Buddhist tradition describes this as Buddha (awake).

    Being awake means I am not, everything else is I am knot, auspicious.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endless_knot

    Shoshin
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