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The struggle for survival

It seems that we are progressing to a point where we would be able to provide all human beings with what they need to survive... if indeed we are not already there. Do you think that we should? Do you think if it were possible to make sure everyone had the food, water, shelter, medicine etc. that they needed to survive that we should? Or is there a need for the struggle? Does the struggle give something to the species that outweighs the extreme ends of the spectrum such as poverty?

Comments

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    For some people the struggle gives a motivating impulse, something that gets them going. Or at least that is the only thing I can think of. But then I am a socialist and believe the redistribution of wealth is a good thing, so let’s do it!

  • @Kerome said:
    For some people the struggle gives a motivating impulse, something that gets them going. Or at least that is the only thing I can think of. But then I am a socialist and believe the redistribution of wealth is a good thing, so let’s do it!

    Yeah, I was thinking about this, and thinking about all the great art, science and philosophy throughout history, and how much of it was motivated by money. And then thinking about all the art, science and philosophy that is motivated by money and, well, how much it sucks! So money certainly motivates, but to what end, and to what merit, i'm not sure. I don't think we need flip flops with digital radio in the heel.

  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Kerome said:
    For some people the struggle gives a motivating impulse, something that gets them going. Or at least that is the only thing I can think of. But then I am a socialist and believe the redistribution of wealth is a good thing, so let’s do it!

    Yeah, I was thinking about this, and thinking about all the great art, science and philosophy throughout history, and how much of it was motivated by money. And then thinking about all the art, science and philosophy that is motivated by money and, well, how much it sucks! So money certainly motivates, but to what end, and to what merit, i'm not sure. I don't think we need flip flops with digital radio in the heel.

    Agree entirely, money becomes the motivation of so much that is creative, or rather others usurp the creativity in people for their own usually dubious ends. Another socialist over here, verging on anarchist at times of wrath!

  • ScottPenScottPen Maryland Veteran

    All I know is that if we let compassion guide their actions, each one of us can help someone. I have no idea about the possibility or efficacy of economic ideas, but I know that I and my immediate family can give what we can of our time and resources, and use our careers to be helpful every day.

    Shoshinadamcrossley
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran
    edited June 27

    I think the struggle is important in the sense that although we could redistribute all the resources to ensure everyone has enough, continued striving helps enable further advances in terms of better medicine, more efficient sources of energy, etc. Also, things deteriorate and wealth declines naturally so some sort of struggle would still be needed under perfect distribution.

    In the not too distant future there could be a day where robots and AI can push the economic cart and do the heavy lifting. There is an idea for a society called Fully Automated Luxury Communsim. Many people do find meaning in their lives through providing and ensuring economic security for themselves and family, so as a species without work we'll have to find new sources of meaning. Personally I find meaning through my Buddhist practice so I look forward to such a future. But many people will face meaninglessness and may simply plug into virtual reality and use scifi mood enhancing drugs to sort out their lives.

    I would recommend Yuval Noah Harari and his latest book Homo Deus, or just one of his You Tube talks on the topic. He's a great thinker and the whole book looks into possible futures for humanity.

  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited June 27

    On the one hand ...

    on the other ...

    personkandoShoshin
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited June 28

    Yes, of course I think we should. Only social darwinists think otherwise, likely confusing struggle with luck and blaming those who are without for not being fit/smart/industrious enough. To look at it the other way, without having to spend so much time and energy just trying to pay for things like food, rent, etc., we could spend it on even greater pursuits like art, literature, science, travel, and any number of things to enhance ourselves and the world around us. To willfully keep people in privation is monstrous, in my opinion.

    lobsterkando
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Well said @Jason it is monstrous (and I should know being a wer-lobster)

    Former life karma is the flimsy excuse for not facilitating social development for the involuntary impoverished. It is a faulty model and I reject its victim blame mind model. Don't cling to it as an excuse, peoples of the Dharma.

    as well as art, literature, science, travel, and any number of things to enhance ourselves and the world around us.

    Exactly ... let me add to that list:

    • social care for our young, vulnerable, old and lonely
    • life long education
    • environmental care
    • self sufficiency
    • the pursuit of happiness
    • spiritual development

    Can we sing and dance now?

    kando
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Think Global, Act Local.

    Isn't getting up in the morning, getting ready for work, getting the kids set on their day (or their own 'struggle') having breakfast, leaving the security of our own homes, dealing with the tussle of traffic (we contribute to) and getting through the day's challenges, not a struggle for survival in and of itself?
    Man, sometimes it's all I can do to actually get out of bed.

    We can consider the world's struggle to survive, when we can be sure we can conquer our own demons.
    Until then, are we aiding - or abetting?

    Bunkskandoperson
  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    "I define anarchist society as one where there is no legal possibility for coercive aggression against the person or property of any individual" Murray Rothbard - no fizzing black bombs mentioned :) Some great posts and thoughts on this thread. I <3 passion in compassion.

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    I was watching a documentary called 'Take Back Your Power' - an example of corporate dystopia ...

    That led me here

    kando
  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    Thank you for posting this @lobster - that rabbit hole keeps getting deeper!

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @federica said:
    Until then, are we aiding - or abetting?

    Like the Buddha we are just human (despite what you have heard) <3

    I consider myself more than human, at times inhuman, humane and super mundane. Very occasionally I exhibit some glimmer of unfolding ...
    That is when we have aids/friends/compassion.

    I will bet my life on The Buddha. Why? She has helped me [lobster wipes away salty tear]

    They who dare, Win. (Motto of the SAS - Special Airy Service) o:)

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran
    edited July 25

    In a talk Andrea Fella was giving she brought up a story that I thought had some relevance to this thread.

    You’ve probably heard the story about a man who tried to help a butterfly out of its cocoon by slitting the cocoon open. The butterfly that emerged had small, unformed wings, and died soon after. It needed the struggle out of the cocoon to force the fluid into its wings to stretch and open them so that the butterfly could fly. By trying to shortcut the process, the man had instead doomed the creature...

    http://www.joyfuldays.com/the-struggle-is-necessary/

    Struggle is usually difficult and often even painful, but it strengthens us and helps us grow. Removing struggle can have the opposite effect of the intention to help in the immediate term and actually cause longer term harm.

    lobsterkandoKerome
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