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Something is missing?

KeromeKerome Love, love is mysteryThe Continent Veteran

What my buddhist practice has brought me is a lot of peace and insight into my negative qualities, a deeper understanding of suffering and a great deal of compassion for others. These are things I am grateful for, and it has returned me to a certain quiet space which has been very appropriate to the phase my life has been in.

But at the same time I feel something has been missing. It’s only been recently that reading a book of Osho’s has been helpful in putting it into words. In that book Osho talks about saying “yes!” to existence, celebrating it, and that one of the things he looks forward to is seeing his sannyasins become “blissful, ecstatic, fulfilled”. That passage made me realise that that aspect of celebration was something I missed in buddhism.

I think in many ways they are strangely complimentary, the dharma and what Osho teaches. I certainly wouldn’t want to miss the words of the Buddha, but sometimes it feels a little dry compared to the teachings of the sufi’s or the poetry of a Kahlil Gibran.

Have you ever found something in the words of another teacher which made you think, I miss that in buddhism?

Hozanrocala

Comments

  • @Kerome said:
    What my buddhist practice has brought me is a lot of peace and insight into my negative qualities, a deeper understanding of suffering and a great deal of compassion for others. These are things I am grateful for, and it has returned me to a certain quiet space which has been very appropriate to the phase my life has been in.

    But at the same time I feel something has been missing. It’s only been recently that reading a book of Osho’s has been helpful in putting it into words. In that book Osho talks about saying “yes!” to existence, celebrating it, and that one of the things he looks forward to is seeing his sannyasins become “blissful, ecstatic, fulfilled”. That passage made me realise that that aspect of celebration was something I missed in buddhism.

    I think in many ways they are strangely complimentary, the dharma and what Osho teaches. I certainly wouldn’t want to miss the words of the Buddha, but sometimes it feels a little dry compared to the teachings of the sufi’s or the poetry of a Kahlil Gibran.

    Have you ever found something in the words of another teacher which made you think, I miss that in buddhism?

    I stayed at a Hare Krishna place for six months, and they were very celebratory. It wasn't my style. I much prefer the calm, stillness and austerity in Buddhism. I think the problem with the 'YEAH' lifestyle is that, if it's not based on deep realisations, i.e. if your bliss belongs to samsara and not Nirvana, then it is temporary, it will pass, you'll probably feel more down when the high passes because of the high, and you'll probably be more motivated to strive to have it again and then cling to it... in other words, it encourages all the mental traits that will prevent you from true realisations. That is, if it comes from samsara. If, however, such bliss and joy comes from an awakened, then, well, there's nothing to be said, and, of course, crack on and enjoy the show! For now, I prefer a mind of equanimity... no highs, no lows, no chasing, and no clinging. That's why Buddhists be how Buddhist be.

    personKerome
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited September 20

    Yeah. That's part of my interest in things like Christian monasticism, liberation theology, and writers like Thomas Merton.

  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited September 20

    Something is missing?

    Buddhism can be dry, unemotional (Dispassionate - pah ... who are we kidding?) but it is a head based system ...
    I would encourage passion for dharma, love for the Boddhisatvas, body based meditation and the influence of mystical paths, psychological and secular well being etc.

    I was involved with Secular Sufism, which is heart based.

    My feeling is dharma changes according to what is missing and what is required. A bit like us ...

    ShoshinKeromekandorocala
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @mindatrisk said:
    if your bliss belongs to samsara and not Nirvana, then it is temporary, it will pass, you'll probably feel more down when the high passes because of the high, and you'll probably be more motivated to strive to have it again and then cling to it... in other words, it encourages all the mental traits that will prevent you from true realisations.

    That is true, and clinging is something to beware of. At the same time, bliss is not something to be avoided, it is generally a good sign if you’re not forcing things. So I don’t think celebration is necessarily a bad thing.

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @lobster said:

    Something is missing?

    Buddhism can be dry, unemotional (Dispassionate - pah ... who are we kidding?) but it is a head based system ...

    Yes, exactly. In Buddhism the learning all goes into the head, and the practice then goes beyond.

    I would encourage passion for dharma, love for the Boddhisatvas, body based meditation and the influence of mystical paths, psychological and secular well being etc.

    Sounds great, but I’ve found that falling in love is something you don’t really control. If you’re lucky you get to fall in love with a teacher, what Osho calls the “master-disciple love affair”, otherwise you can try and fish love out of the tangle of a romantic involvement.

    My feeling is dharma changes according to what is missing and what is required. A bit like us ...

    I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. I don’t think that what a person needs is strictly defined by one path, we are all individuals and some people may need a little of this and a little of that. I think you have to be sensitive to what you are drawn to

    kando
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @lobster said:

    My feeling is dharma changes according to what is missing and what is required. A bit like us..

    The Dharma

    Very much so... Change is inevitable...Suffering is optional

  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited September 21

    @Jason said:
    Yeah. That's part of my interest in things like Christian monasticism, liberation theology, and writers like Thomas Merton.

    I don't have the time these days to comment as much as I want. But I wanted to mention I've found that, while Buddhist and Christian monastic traditions share similar practices and insights, Christianity's focus on charity community, social justice, and loving others as ourselves helps to balance out the strictness and austerity of my Theravada practice. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with finding other teachers and traditions that inspire you and help you have a happier life. And I also don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying being alive. There is suffering. And we can address the causes of that suffering and suffer less. But we can also enjoy the beauty, joy, and love that life also has to offer, and share that with others.

    lobsterKeromerocala
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    @Kerome said:
    What my buddhist practice has brought me is a lot of peace and insight into my negative qualities, a deeper understanding of suffering and a great deal of compassion for others. These are things I am grateful for, and it has returned me to a certain quiet space which has been very appropriate to the phase my life has been in.

    But at the same time I feel something has been missing. It’s only been recently that reading a book of Osho’s has been helpful in putting it into words. In that book Osho talks about saying “yes!” to existence, celebrating it, and that one of the things he looks forward to is seeing his sannyasins become “blissful, ecstatic, fulfilled”. That passage made me realise that that aspect of celebration was something I missed in buddhism.

    I think in many ways they are strangely complimentary, the dharma and what Osho teaches. I certainly wouldn’t want to miss the words of the Buddha, but sometimes it feels a little dry compared to the teachings of the sufi’s or the poetry of a Kahlil Gibran.

    Have you ever found something in the words of another teacher which made you think, I miss that in buddhism?

    I recall a young Sri Lankan guy staying at my local Monastery stating that we Westerners "take the dhamma too seriously" or words to that affect.

    Ajahn Brahm said something similar to me when I met him...

    We need to (en)lighten up a little!!! :)

    ShoshinlobsterkandoKerome
  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    @Kerome said:

    @lobster said:

    Something is missing?

    Buddhism can be dry, unemotional (Dispassionate - pah ... who are we kidding?) but it is a head based system ...

    Yes, exactly. In Buddhism the learning all goes into the head, and the practice then goes beyond.

    I would encourage passion for dharma, love for the Boddhisatvas, body based meditation and the influence of mystical paths, psychological and secular well being etc.

    I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. I don’t think that what a person needs is strictly defined by one path, we are all individuals and some people may need a little of this and a little of that. I think you have to be sensitive to what you are drawn to

    Agree with both of you, I love my Bodhisattvas and mystical writings and poetry of all creeds. I feel that Buddhism is a constantly evolving and wonderfully creative source, and whatever floats your raft is cool! B)

    lobsterrocala
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @Bunks said:
    I recall a young Sri Lankan guy staying at my local Monastery stating that we Westerners "take the dhamma too seriously" or words to that affect.

    Ajahn Brahm said something similar to me when I met him...

    We need to (en)lighten up a little!!! :)

    That’s very likely part of it, that we perhaps take the 4NT and get disheartened by the suffering, having been conditioned by centuries of Christianity to treat spirituality as something very serious? Who knows what it is in the western psyche which encourages that.

    Maybe that’s why I’m interested in traditions which encourage an inner celebration, because it seems so counter to the engineer’s mindset in which I was educated. Being sensible all the time is also a kind of quiet death, I’m beginning to realise.

    BunksKundo
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran

    I began my Buddhism in the Tibetan tradition and generally they are very happy, exuberant and often outgoing.

    With the Theravada tradition I'm involved in now everything seems to be about being mindful or done in silence and generally oriented towards intellectual culture. I'm not an extrovert so I only really care to socialize around an activity, where that can carry the interactive load. They have things like book clubs and writers groups, activities oriented towards intellectual culture, so if something is missing for me it would be a Dudeist bowling night at the bowling alley a block away from the center, or maybe a game night where we play table top games with a Buddhist theme.

    They're starting remodeling on their newish retreat property, so I'll be volunteering a week there, its going to be done in a mindful manner with 3 sittings a day and I don't know if it will be done in silence or not. I'd like to be able to get to know people in a manner that is somewhat comfortable for me so I hope not.

  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    Odd coincidence @kerome, I am reading 'advice not given' by Dr Mark Epstein at present. He talks a lot about the way meditation can be used to shut down feelings and how this is sometimes encouraged by the idea of them being 'defilements' - a quote;
    'in the guise of openess emotions are shut down. Feelings are pushed away. A kind of joylessness masquerades as equinamity.'
    He is both a psychotherapist and a Buddhist, I find it interesting how he combines them! Great book. :)

    lobsterKeromeShoshin
  • Personally, I don't see anything wrong with finding other teachers and traditions that inspire you and help you have a happier life.

    <3

    I want to visit wise rabbi but usually settle for our local wild rabbits. I find the wise druids are now feeding the trees they once grew, grove and grooved to. My local Christian monasteries and convents have mostly closed. Maybe I would speak more silence if I listened ... Time to draw the curtains and let the Light speak ... ;)

  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    Talking of wise rabbis, 'from the book to the book' is full of them!

    'thus I would circle the earth in order to die of my images. There are truths that rule over sunny estates. I would meet them all. For the time it takes to formulate a question I would take advantage of their sound company. I would adopt their reason and their perspective. '

    Edgmond Jabes, a wonderful writer for the mystical inclined :)

  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited September 24

    I am sure it is a better read than 'The Book of the Book' by Idries Shah, which is one of the few of his books I never had time for ...

    Something regurgitated for the fish eaters ...
    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/20919/question-for-christian-buddhists-or-buddhists-christians
    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/16681/gnostic-christianity

    Thanks @kando, I am interested in a perspective without or beyond reason, which in this sense is unreasonable ...

    So what about Buddhist mysticism? No such thing? Missing?
    https://m.wikihow.com/Be-a-Mystic

  • GuiGui Veteran

    Personally I think that waiting for bliss or practicing Buddhism to attain bliss, or enlightenment or anything else, is a mistake. For me, Buddhism is not about getting something or somewhere but is learning about and removing the "layers" the prevent us from experiencing reality. Bliss is an emotion that may come and go. And that is that. We suffer waiting for it to come and we suffer waiting for it to leave. Reality is boring only if you think about it.

    lobster
  • VimalajātiVimalajāti Whitby, Ontario Veteran

    @Jason said:

    @Jason said:
    Yeah. That's part of my interest in things like Christian monasticism, liberation theology, and writers like Thomas Merton.

    I don't have the time these days to comment as much as I want. But I wanted to mention I've found that, while Buddhist and Christian monastic traditions share similar practices and insights

    IMO bodhicitta = noetic faculty.

    My partner is an Anglican but he reads Bodhisattvacharyāvatāra and sees little difference between it and a contemplative Christian text.

    lobster
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Something is missing?
    Have you ever found something in the words of another teacher which made you think, I miss that in buddhism?

    Dharma Practice ( along with other things) is a Path to Bliss
    ...and Bliss just being one of many by-products of the practice....nothing more ...nothing less....when it comes to the Buddha Dharma ...nothing is missing ...well for me anyhow ...but I have been known to miss the mark :)

    There is Dukkha! There is the cause of Dukkha ! There is the cessation of Dukkha! The 8FP !

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    Have you ever found something in the words of another teacher which made you think, I miss that in buddhism?

    Kabbalah - and not the crap Madonna peddles. My Wednesday night classes are a treat for me (plus our festivals are generally very joyful - aside from Yom Kippur, which was last Tuesday)

    Kerome
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran
    edited September 25

    @Gui said:
    Personally I think that waiting for bliss or practicing Buddhism to attain bliss, or enlightenment or anything else, is a mistake.

    That’s a line of thinking that I stuck to as well for a while, until I realised that the not-pursuing of bliss was also a choice that I was making that was limiting how I lived my life. And when presented with living with some bliss in life or only equanimity, I preferred experiencing some bliss. It is tricky sometimes to see how you limit yourself.

  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    @lobster said:
    So what about Buddhist mysticism? No such thing? Missing?

    Lots of mystical thinking in Tibetan Buddhism @lobster, at least I find so, there is for me a heavy dose of Shamanism and magic in their reading of psychological states. In Chan and Zen nature becomes a mystical experience, even everyday life does, but then that is probably true of all such intense experiences. Poetry manages, at its best, to map out those strange territories :)

    Shoshinlobster
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