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You

JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

You exist in name only.

Vimalajāti

Comments

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Not even in that.
    If you share a name with others, are you the same existence or different?

  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    So then who wrote that? Can a mere name make a forum post? How?

  • I don' exist. The Pope doesn't exist. Nothing = nothing. Therefore, I am the Pope.

    seeker242kando
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @seeker242 said:
    So then who wrote that? Can a mere name make a forum post? How?

    what exactly is your point in posting this topic?
    Sounds to me a bit extremist. There are always two sides to the matter of existence.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to do, or get at...

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    From moment to moment, its a changing existence. Not same, not different.

    kando
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited November 1

    @federica said:

    @seeker242 said:
    So then who wrote that? Can a mere name make a forum post? How?

    what exactly is your point in posting this topic?
    Sounds to me a bit extremist. There are always two sides to the matter of existence.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to do, or get at...

    The point is to ask the question I asked. Question asking is an age old practice in chan style buddhist traditions. And it's a very valuable practice. What you are trying to get at with such questions is who you really are, you're true nature, buddha nature, etc.

  • @JaySon said:
    You exist in name only.

    Twaddle!

    newlotus
  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    As I once heard quoted in an episode of Babylon Five 'the universe put us here to make sense of itself.' Good luck with that, universe, says I! :)

    lobsterKundoJasonnewlotus
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 1

    @seeker242 said:

    @federica said:

    @seeker242 said:
    So then who wrote that? Can a mere name make a forum post? How?

    what exactly is your point in posting this topic?
    Sounds to me a bit extremist. There are always two sides to the matter of existence.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to do, or get at...

    The point is to ask the question I asked. Question asking is an age old practice in chan style buddhist traditions. And it's a very valuable practice. What you are trying to get at with such questions is who you really are, you're true nature, buddha nature, etc.

    Moderator note:

    My apologies, I mis-quoted.
    I was intending to refer to the original question at the head of the thread, I wasn't meaning to ask you...

    But my question still stands. If the posing of the question has a significance, an objective, the questioner should say so.
    While I realise this is in the 'Philosophy' thread, I'm finding it difficult to differentiate between the trivial unnecessary and pointless enquiries and the poignant, deep meaningful ones.

    It's not always a fun, breezy walk in the park, being a Moderator.

  • @kando said:
    As I once heard quoted in an episode of Babylon Five 'the universe put us here to make sense of itself.' Good luck with that, universe, says I! :)

    Tee Hee. <3
    Good quote. Well said. That is also a dervish teaching.
    I wonder where in the universe ...
    http://www.rumi.org.uk/poems.html#TheTrueSufi

    Strangely enough sense and bewilderment are close ...

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @kando said:
    As I once heard quoted in an episode of Babylon Five 'the universe put us here to make sense of itself.' Good luck with that, universe, says I! :)

    That had to be either Delen or Lenier 👌👌

  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator

    @kando said:
    As I once heard quoted in an episode of Babylon Five 'the universe put us here to make sense of itself.' Good luck with that, universe, says I! :)

    Loved that show. I share a birthday with Mira Furla/Delenn. :)

  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    It was Delen @kundo, great character, loved the show too @Jason - we are star stuff! (also Delenn) :)

    Kundo
  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    Brilliant, brilliant Rumi - great link @lobster, I feel that new buddhist at its best is a great field for meetings :) am reading a lot of Cid Corman at present and like this too,
    "Poetry becomes
    The conversation
    We could not
    otherwise have'

    lobster
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I have a sneaky feeling this discussion has spatially veered in a direction hitherto unforeseen by @JaySon ... There you go pal - make a blatant statement, and all sorts of replies ensue!! :D

    kando
  • 'Poetry becomes
    The conversation
    We could not
    otherwise have'

    Is Plan

    Other wise
    is ways less more

    Be wise in Ways
    Unspoken

    Loudly

    kando
  • VimalajātiVimalajāti Whitby, Ontario Veteran

    @JaySon said:
    You exist in name only.

    Names exist. Does that mean "you" exist, then?

    kando
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    You
    You exist in name only

    What's in a name ?

    "I" answer to the name "Shoshin Clinging Aggregates" clinging to name clinging by nature

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 4

    @Shoshin said:

    You
    You exist in name only

    What's in a name ?

    "I" answer to the name "Shoshin Clinging Aggregates" clinging to name clinging by nature

    The Artist formerly known as @JaySon...?

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited November 4

    @JaySon said:
    You exist in name only.

    Sounds neat but it isn't very practical, logical or realistic.

    It isn't very practical because your individuality is what makes you useful and so it seems like a kind of refusal to use the tools you are given.

    When it comes to figuring out a problem, it is often said that two heads are better than one. Looking at it this way, we have hit the big time. Ignoring this and trying to shun the self goes against the grain of natural diversity. We are unique aspects of the same process but conformity is impossible as no one can share another's exact perspective.

    We could dismiss suffering and everything else as just so much nothing with our proverbial heads in the sand but I relate it to the two arrows. Pretending the first arrow never hit is just the second arrow in disguise.

    It isn't very logical as most people here will be following the 8FP as well as our understanding and determination will allow. If we existed in name only then suffering would exist in name only and so no diligence required to extinguish it.

    However, the first NT is that there is indeed suffering. Implying that existence is illusion posits non existence being tricked into thinking it exists. It just doesn't make any sense.

    If I call myself someone else's name will I know how they feel?

    Are you typing this right now or just reading it?

    It isn't very realistic because it is the labels that only exist for our convenience, not the other way around. And of course we like to turn conveniences into necessities thereby getting hooked into believing we are the labels and thoughts we are actually using as tools.

    In the way I see it at the moment, our existence is not the illusion, seperation is the illusion but it is a tool of exploration. Our individual stream of thoughts is not even the individual self but a tool within a tool that we can master through the practice of meditation.

    Jeffrey
  • "The belief that there is no self can actually get in the way of awakening. As the Buddha noted, the contemplation of not-self can lead to an experience of nothingness (MN 106). If your purpose in practicing is to disprove the self—perhaps from wanting to escape the responsibilities of having a self—you can easily interpret the experience of nothingness as the proof you’re looking for: a sign you’ve reached the end of the path. Yet the Buddha warned that subtle clinging can persist in that experience. If you think you’ve reached awakening, you won’t look for the clinging. But if you learn to keep looking for clinging, even in the experience of nothingness, you’ll have a chance of finding it. Only when you find it can you then let it go.
    So it’s important to remember which questions the not-self teaching was meant to answer and which ones it wasn’t. Getting clear on this point can mean the difference between a false awakening and the real thing."

    By Thanissaro Bhikkhu

    https://tricycle.org/magazine/there-no-self/?utm_source=fb

    David
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