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Non-intended meditation

@herbie said:
Certainly depends on what one considers to be 'meditation'. Many different types and understandings.
For me it is sometimes like coming home, sometimes like a refuge, sometimes merely a reminder ... and sometimes something artificial. If the latter then that's the best case. However my delusion seems to be present at a constant level independent of meditation or non-meditation. But it seems as if meditation can help me to become mindful of my delusion.

Hi all,

I've written the above in the thread 'Meditation is like ...' and now I would like to chatch up on this because it once again happened to me this morning when I sat down for a cup of tea.

It's been one of these moments when the thought 'I want to meditate to today', i.e. the intention to meditate, would have appeared like a thought originating from an alien world of experience, would have appeared very artificial and unnecessary abstract.

I'm sure everybody know such states that occur spontaneously, not intended, not fabricated. But even though they're not intended they are similar to meditative states since there are no thoughts, no worries, no intentionality at all. It is a kind of super-relaxed selfless and objectless state where there is nothing remaining that might be let go of.

When such states happen or even happen more often then I know that my current practice and conduct can't be that wrong. But I can't pin down what it is that I am doing right, i.e. I cannot effect such states through doing this or that.
It is beyond my control.

This is what I have referred to with 'non-intended meditation'.
It is a kind of naturally and spontaneously occuring meditation. I feel gratitude that something like this can happen but I do not know whom to express my gratitude to.

Thanks for reading.

ShoshinKerome

Comments

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited January 5

    Many moons ago when reading a book by a Zen practitioner and neuroscientist ,,, This passage jumped out at me and floored 'me'....(and I've never been the same since ;) )

    "AWARENESS is fundamentally non-conceptual before thinking splits experience into subject and object...It is empty and so can contain everything, including thought...It is boundless...And amazingly it is intrinsically KNOWING..."

    I feel gratitude that something like this can happen but I do not know whom to express my gratitude to.

    So I would say Awareness.... but from what I gather Awareness has no need for gratitude...If it could talk, I sure it would say "Thank you kindly ...but I'm just doing my job !" well something like that :)

    herbietom_hitt
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 5

    No, I think it would say, "Hey, don't thank me, you did it, not I! I'm just sat here like I always have been.... YOU came to ME!"

    Shoshinherbie
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    It’s probably a natural consequence of following the Noble Eightfold Path... after a certain amount of training the mind, mindfulness also becomes easier. You could pay attention to the entry and exit from this state to see if you can prolong it.

    herbietom_hitt
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think the void Veteran

    I think be grateful to the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha for presenting and passing down a world view and set of practices that promote such states of mind to occur. And be grateful to yourself for making the efforts needed to walk through the door.

    herbielobsterShoshin
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Well said @person

    They go to many a refuge,
    to mountains, forests,
    parks, trees, and shrines:
    people threatened with danger.
    That's not the secure refuge,
    that's not the highest refuge,
    that's not the refuge,
    having gone to which,
    you gain release
    from all suffering and stress.

    But when, having gone for refuge
    to the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha,
    you see with right discernment
    the four Noble Truths —
    stress,
    the cause of stress,
    the transcending of stress,
    and the Noble Eightfold Path,
    the way to the stilling of stress:
    That's the secure refuge,
    that, the highest refuge,
    that is the refuge,
    having gone to which,
    you gain release
    from all suffering and stress.

    — Dhammapada, 188-192
    https://accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/refuge.html

    tom_hitt
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited January 5

    When such states happen or even happen more often then I know that my current practice and conduct can't be that wrong. But I can't pin down_ what it is that I am doing right, i.e. I cannot effect such states through doing this or that.
    It is beyond my control._

    There is no doer only doing (perhaps Anatta is making its non-permanent presence felt )...It would seem that is what's happening... No doer is doing things behind your back/behind the scenes so to speak :) doing without a doer's involvement

    @herbie ...I was going to add that this special event should be treated as nothing special...but then again one could say it is Awareness's "speciality"...subtle & unexpected...Which I guess is to be expected.... Awareness is full of surprises... :)

    tom_hitt
  • SE25WallSE25Wall London Explorer

    @herbie said:

    @herbie said:
    Certainly depends on what one considers to be 'meditation'. Many different types and understandings.
    For me it is sometimes like coming home, sometimes like a refuge, sometimes merely a reminder ... and sometimes something artificial. If the latter then that's the best case. However my delusion seems to be present at a constant level independent of meditation or non-meditation. But it seems as if meditation can help me to become mindful of my delusion.

    Hi all,

    I've written the above in the thread 'Meditation is like ...' and now I would like to chatch up on this because it once again happened to me this morning when I sat down for a cup of tea.

    It's been one of these moments when the thought 'I want to meditate to today', i.e. the intention to meditate, would have appeared like a thought originating from an alien world of experience, would have appeared very artificial and unnecessary abstract.

    I'm sure everybody know such states that occur spontaneously, not intended, not fabricated. But even though they're not intended they are similar to meditative states since there are no thoughts, no worries, no intentionality at all. It is a kind of super-relaxed selfless and objectless state where there is nothing remaining that might be let go of.

    When such states happen or even happen more often then I know that my current practice and conduct can't be that wrong. But I can't pin down what it is that I am doing right, i.e. I cannot effect such states through doing this or that.
    It is beyond my control.

    This is what I have referred to with 'non-intended meditation'.
    It is a kind of naturally and spontaneously occuring meditation. I feel gratitude that something like this can happen but I do not know whom to express my gratitude to.

    Thanks for reading.

    an old zen poem helps me:

    "you can't catch hold of it
    nor can you get rid of it

    by not being able to get it
    you get it.

    when you speak it is silent.
    when you are silent, it speaks. "

    the last two lines are key. any involvement of will, other than simple awareness clouds the awareness for me. i end up being mindful through a filter. it's about just letting the mind and all the other senses do their thing. i could say "watch" these things, but i think watching is just another thought too that can end up being clung too. "i must watch, i must watch" etc. if the universe is just an endless process or happening, then it's somehow being tehre when its happening.

    Shoshinherbielobstertom_hitt
  • SE25WallSE25Wall London Explorer

    as soon as a practice gets caught up in "I am doing this right, or i am not doing that right" then in my view my self has caught up the practice, and with enough practice the self becomes illusive so it's a false economy anyway lol

  • SE25WallSE25Wall London Explorer

    there's so many paradoxes in this game, but whilst they are annoying sometimes they add so much beauty and mystery to it. even if i am trying to win a game that can never be won, my life gets better because of it. vision and wisdom gets better because of it. i think with any "path" or "enlightenment" there is no real pot at the end of the rainbow. when i let go of any sense of destination, practice was easier.

    herbielobster
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