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The "right" religion

edited July 2005 in Buddhism Basics
This is something that I've thought about time and time again and discussed on numerous occasions and I would love to heard what fellow practioners think since I've never had this discussion with one.

There can't possibly be a 'right' religion. One that everyone in the world should follow? Why should people who have never heard of Chrsitianity be condemed? Why should the native americans who worshipped sun and moon gods and revered the earth as a living entity have been condemed? There are too many minds for people to nicely fit into just one.

I feel that if that's what you practice and believe in what's right for you then you will have the peace that you seek in the end.

What do you guys think?

Comments

  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited June 2005
    Maybe the "right" religion is to believe what you believe. All religions have some sort of common ground.
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited June 2005
    That's why I chose to become a buddhist - because it's not a religion.
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited June 2005
    I disagree with that, Brian. If it wasn't a religion it wouldn't be compared to Christianity. A lot of people say here on the forum that they had a hard time telling their Christian families that they had turned towards Buddhism. Sure it was originally meant to not be a religion but it has become one because of people's use of it. It is much as a religion as Christianity, Islamic, Jewish, or anything else. The difference is that the people here try to say it's not. But that's the good thing about Buddhism. You can say whatever you like. That's not the point. It is just another label. Buddhism is another form of Spirituality. I look at it as a religion. I get so much out of it. More than anything I ever got from Christianity.
  • edited June 2005
    If the differentiating factor between a religion and a non-religion is structure then Buddhism is a religion in that there is a definate religious structure and heirarchy in place.

    However, that being said, it is far different than the structure of, say, Roman Catholicism.

    It is quite possible that Buddhism is a religion (which I tend to believe it is), though a religion in a sense that differs from our Western sensibility of religious structure.

    The inability of the Catholic Church, for example, to ever adiquately explain what happens to those who have no knowledge of their form of salvation (a response which is typically, "Ignorance is okay for them, but not for you") points directly to the flaws in any of the prevailing religious certainty.

    At the end of the day it is in the best interest of the Catholic Church to proclaim their soverign divinity because once they lose that they lose all their power -- and with it their income. I firmly believe it to be a numbers game, and a large financial gambit, with the greater majority of organized religions. It has become quite vogue to attack the likes of Tom Cruise for his Scientology (which is wacky, don't get me wrong) but to, at the same time, defend ideals just as outlandish, and money-grabbing practices just as blantant, by more conventional Churches.

    In that respect, Buddhism, or at least the Buddhism I have been exposed to, differs greatly from the conventional idea of religion and, it could be argued, is not a religion based on our knowledge of what religion is.

    That was long. Phew.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited June 2005
    IMHO, human beings generate myth as response to a deep need. There are lots of metaphors for this need. Saint Augustine called it a "God-shaped hole". The Jungian might call it a drive to express the Archetypes. The Buddhist may see it as Suchness expressing itself in samsara. The capitalist will manifest it as the market-place. Myth itself has to be used to try to describe this basic human function.

    At a cultural level, myths evolve and are accepted because they make some sort of sense of the chaos that confronts our naked senses. We also have our own mythic framework for our perception of ourself, others and the world at large.

    If you have read The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night or have been around people with autism, you may have been struck, as have I, by their unmetaphorical world-view. It appears to be extremely painful and isolating.

    One of the benefits to my own pilgrimage of Buddhism has been the realisation that 'right' and 'wrong' are not categories that can be attached to myth. On the dashboard of a taxi in Goa, our driver had a statue of Sri Ganesha, a picture of the Dalai Lama and a small shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes. From the mirror hung a picture of Sai Baba: can't get too many gods for safety! And, after a journey with him, I gave thanks to all of them for a safe arrival.

    Old John Paul II could not consider Buddhism a religion and he may have been right in terms of Western Buddhism which is typically reductionist. We are getting forms of Buddhist practice and theory based on various traditions but stripped of their ancient myths: Tibetan Buddhism without all the gods, demons, magic kingdoms, etc., etc. is one example. Sogyal Rinpoche has grasped this very clearly and the myth content of his work is minimal. But he can't avoid it completely: Gampopa, Milarepa, Padmasambhava all turn up in his work.

    It is exactly this which prevents Buddhism from being viewed solely as a philosophy in modern terms: there is a need for stories to illustrate and to affirm points made.


    I'm not sure that Buddhism fits into any of our usual categories, although it has aspects of both a group of philosophical schools and a clutch of religious doctrines.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited June 2005
    I would hate to say what I believe is "right" and exclude so many other people who have deep faith in their beliefs. I would also hate to say what I believe is "wrong" because then I look foolish for following it. I have to be honest and say that I don't know if there is a right and wrong way to believe anything. I choose to poke around here and there and find out what is "real" for me. That is what I practice. I have practiced many philosophies and religions in my short life, so I can say that I'm not always "right". :) The search continues......
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited June 2005
    In that regard, let me rephrase to say that I do not feel that the buddhism I practice is a religion. Although I may be biased in that I was raised religious, and therefore I feel that religion requires worship. I do not worship anything or anybody, and yet I call myself a buddhist. Therefore, the buddhism that I practice is not a religion. I hope that clarifies :)
  • edited June 2005
    You said exactly what I feel in your post Elo 'cept my search has ended. It ended a long time ago I just didn't have an outlet and now that I've found one I definitely feel complete. You summed up perfectly what I try to say in a 40 minute conversation. I love those conversations though because generally the other person is really receptive to what I'm seeing because when I tell people that I practice Buddhism they say that they can see it and they wouldn't expect anything else. They always want to know more because they would like to be more like me and I don't know if that sounded conceited but I don't mean it that way. That's just the response that I generally get. Unless we're talking about my aunt who is a 'preacher'? I think I'm still confused by that concept and I don't understand what preacher's are supposed to be if she's one. She's not a very nice, caring or stable person. She seems to care at times but there are times where she's unforgiving and unyielding. It's possible she just hasn't completed her spirtual journey as she thinks she has. Because I don't ever want to be that unforgiving and harsh. I don't think that comes with the territory here.

    Anyhow I did want to give the definition of religion I found in the Encylopaedia Britannica:

    human beings' relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, spiritual, or divine. Religion is commonly regarded as consisting of a person's relation to God or to gods or spirits. Worship is probably the most basic element of religion, but moral conduct, right belief, and participation in religious institutions are generally also constituent elements of the religious…

    I think the first sentence could be applied to Buddhism but I don't think the rest of it really does unless you're a buddhist who incorporates God or gods.

    "moral conduct, right belief, and participation in religious institutions are generally also constituent elements of the religious" this could apply to us also right?

    So in some technical way for the people with their survey's and the people at the check in desk at the hospitals or the university admissions department, this helps them to neatly classify people of our spiritual orientation! :D or something like that :o
  • edited June 2005
    Here is my opinion on the 'right religion'.

    Religion is like a shoe. Certain sizes fit for different people. No matter how you may try to fit someone else's foot in your shoe, it may or may not fit the same. Everyone's shoe is valid and unique in its own way.
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited June 2005
    Also different types of shoes that are the same sizes don't fit your feet the same way either. ;)
  • edited June 2005
    There is not only one right religion. I'm fairly sure that Buddhism has ever claimed this. From my practice I think there is but one Dharma (ultimate truth) that are basic tenants of all religions. The moral conduct is simply basic pure human nature. If we look deeply enough we might find that we would follow these "rules" even if they were never written. E.g. if today they said oh well we made a mistake killing isn't one of the Ten Commandments. Would you then suddenly be able to kill another person? Probably not. To become one with God, Allah, Rah, Buddha, Dharma etc. is to be aware that all things we perceive are part of the one thing. Finding our way beyond the manipulations of ego driven mankind that has buried the teachings of "religions" beneath mountains of delusion. This is the path. As Master Dogen said, "to study the Buddha is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self" when we can see the self we forget is the egoic self indulgent mind created self, we will find that "the kingdom of God is within us" (G.O.T.) or all beings are Buddha. Any way we name it the truth is the same.

    ^gassho^
  • edited June 2005
    I see Buddhism as my religion even though I don't worship anyone or anything. I can also see how Buddhism can be a non-religious philosophy for others. I can't say I have a clear definition to make the distinction. It's just a feeling, that Buddhism fills the spot that Christianity used to. I kind of think of religion as where you turn to answer the questions that science hasn't figured out and probably won't soon, but that seem important enough to ask anyway. Christianity I turned to for definite answers. Buddhism, while it doesn't give me simple answers, does at least help me deal with the not knowing to some extent - although sometimes I think I'm going to think myself out of existence.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited July 2005
    I thought that typically, "religion" was something that involved the acknowledgement or worship of a supernatural being or diety.

    I don't believe that Buddhism falls under that.

    Michael
  • edited July 2005
    Religion is only a word. Try not to get to hung up on it. It only matters what your practice is. words are signposts pointing to the path. We just learn to read the sign and walk the path.
    welcome to the site. Im glad you are here!


    ^gassho^
  • edited July 2005
    buddhafoot wrote:
    I thought that typically, "religion" was something that involved the acknowledgement or worship of a supernatural being or diety.

    I don't believe that Buddhism falls under that.

    Michael

    According to The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language - Fourth Edition, religion is

    "1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
    A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
    2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
    3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
    4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."

    In my case, Buddhism falls into definition #3, and perhaps #4. Of course, it also depends on how you define spiritual.
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited July 2005
    buddhafoot wrote:
    I thought that typically, "religion" was something that involved the acknowledgement or worship of a supernatural being or diety.

    I don't believe that Buddhism falls under that.

    Michael



    For me I still have faith in God. I don't believe Jesus was his son nor do I have faith in the bible. You see I have faith in God but I believe Buddhism is God's true way. I am not saying that God worked his ways through Buddha. I just believe that Buddha figured it all out first. I believe God wants us to find out things for ourselves. So for me Buddhism is a religion. And yes as Wolf points out it is also a label. I myself am not past labels yet but maybe one day. I love it here on the path. I have never felt more "right".
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