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Is it still Buddhism?

RiverRiver
edited July 2005 in Buddhism Basics
Simonthepilgram wrote "It is, of course, possible to strip Buddhism down to the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path....." in annother thread and rather than hijack it I thought I would start new one. Not wanting to misrepresent myself I havent called myself a buddhist because Im really not sure if I am. For me the Four Noble Truths are in fact truths and I am trying my best to follow the Eightfold Path. Does that make me a Buddhist?

Comments

  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited July 2005
    I'm sure you'll get a variety of answers to this, but my personal opinion is as follows. It seems very important to many people to label themselves as "buddhist". If it makes you comfortable to label yourself in such a way, then by all means, you are a buddhist. If you believe the label carries negative connotations or will bring discomfort to your life, then you should not call yourself a buddhist :)

    For me, I label myself as a buddhist because I follow the teachings of a man who became fully self-aware. He was called a buddha, so I call myself a buddhist.
  • RiverRiver
    edited July 2005
    Im really not looking for a label for myself. I try to think of myself as a sentient being seeking enlightenment. But it sure would be easier for everyday conversations to be able to say Im a Buddist, or Im following the Buddhist path, but I certainly wouldnt want to offend anyone by doing so.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited July 2005
    I wouldn't worry about offending anyone by saying "I am Buddhist". Do people usually get offended if you tell them you are a different "religion" than what they follow? I guess some do and some don't. I am very laid back, so it is not important to me what religion a person is and I find it fascinating that there are so many different people out there. You are doing what is right for you, and I would like to think people would not be offended by that. Or am I just being naive?? :)
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited July 2005
    I don't think there can be any offence taken, River.

    Even though there are lineages which appear to insist on some sort of "stream entering" ceremony for Taking Refuge, there is no specific institutional requirement within Buddhism. It's not like Christian baptism or naturalisation. As Brian says, it is whatever you want to call yourself.

    Many Buddhists will ask each other about lineage but even that is a matter of personal choice.
  • RiverRiver
    edited July 2005
    Yogamama, its not that Im worried about people from other religions getting offended. Its more that I think the label Buddhist belongs to the Buddhist community and if what I practice doesnt fit into their definition I wouldnt want to use that label. Just calling myself a Buddhist doesnt make it so, and not that I'll change so I can.
    Simon, I guess what Im looking for in a way is what do some of the different lineages within Buddhism consider to be the essence of Buddhism. Many of the lineages have taken on and adapted local rituals and ceremonies Im wondering do they draw a line between them and the Buddha-Dharma, or are they interconnected in their view.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited July 2005
    Oh, I get it! :) Sorry for the confusion. I should have known what you meant since I also worry about calling myself a "Buddhist" since I still know so little about it!
  • RiverRiver
    edited July 2005
    No need for the apology. There is alot to learn let alone study and put it to the test. I guess I should quit thinking about how long the path is and where I am on it and just "be" on the path.
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited July 2005
    River, one thing I've discovered is that it's very hard for people like us, who have been raised with labels such as "he's a protestant" "i'm a catholic", "she's african methodist", "my uncle was a baptist", and having those labels actually define almost a culture or at least a lifestyle, to do away with those very labels.

    Buddhism is completely different from our cultural norm - it is an individual pursuit. It has taken years for me to come to grips with the idea that Bob the Monk doesn't care what I am doing, that I cannot possibly offend him with my actions, that I can call myself a devil-worshipping buddha brother, or I can even tell a monk "I think the buddha was full of crap", and he will not judge me. What will his judgment have to do with his enlightenment? It will only hold him back on his own path!
  • RiverRiver
    edited July 2005
    Ok, I think I may have a grasp on this. Taking refuge in the Three Jewels seems to be the deciding factor atleast for me. Not to say that beliving the Four Noble Truths and following the Eightfold Path wont lead to enlightenment.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited July 2005
    Brian wrote:
    River, one thing I've discovered is that it's very hard for people like us, who have been raised with labels such as "he's a protestant" "i'm a catholic", "she's african methodist", "my uncle was a baptist", and having those labels actually define almost a culture or at least a lifestyle, to do away with those very labels.

    Buddhism is completely different from our cultural norm - it is an individual pursuit. It has taken years for me to come to grips with the idea that Bob the Monk doesn't care what I am doing, that I cannot possibly offend him with my actions, that I can call myself a devil-worshipping buddha brother, or I can even tell a monk "I think the buddha was full of crap", and he will not judge me. What will his judgment have to do with his enlightenment? It will only hold him back on his own path!

    Very good points, Brian. This has cleared some things up for me as well. Thank you.
  • RiverRiver
    edited July 2005
    Brian, the whole label thing is tough to get over. I think offending Buddhists wasnt what I meant to say (offending a Buddhist is an oxymoron if I ever heard one), what my fear is if I call myself a Buddhist and Im really not it would just cause more confusion and misconceptions about Buddhists in the world.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited July 2005
    I asked a bhikkhu once if I should take the refuge and precept ceremony at the monastery (Thai Theravada). It simply consists of Person A. chanting in Pali that they would like to take refuge, etc. Monk B. chants appropriate response, person A. then repeats the what Monk. B. says -- yadda yadda. He told me that I could but there is no real point, the ceremony itself is superficial. What really matters is if you honestly believe in the Buddha's teachings as being skillful in nature and leading to the ceasation of dukkha. You simply have to practice them. That is enough.

    Don't forget the Buddha wasn't a "Buddhist"! He was just "Awake".
  • kinleekinlee Veteran
    edited July 2005
    River wrote:
    Ok, I think I may have a grasp on this. Taking refuge in the Three Jewels seems to be the deciding factor atleast for me. Not to say that beliving the Four Noble Truths and following the Eightfold Path wont lead to enlightenment.

    Hi River,

    Yes, by taking refuge in the Three Jewels is the deciding factor. They have indeed profound meaning which I only discovered last year.

    Believing the Four Noble Truths raise the level of awareness about life. But it may not lead to Enlightenment.

    Eightfold Path can be a viewed as a strong foundation towards Enlightenment, this requires daily practises.

    cheers,
    :p
  • RiverRiver
    edited July 2005
    Thank you all for helping me see this issue much more clearly. This site is truly a great resource.
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