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Please help this poor meditator

edited December 2009 in Meditation
Hi everyone,

I have recently strated practising awareness meditation. But I find it really difficult as things are far from perfect in my life, and I lose my breath and end up focusing on the negative stuff as a focus for the meditation. It dosn't clear away it just stays in my mind and makes the meditation unbearable and I give up and walk away.

When I fist started this meditation I would sometimes attain quite a blissfull state of mind. Now when I don't acheive this I get real frustrated and it ruins my meditation. Should we meditate even when it isn't joyful?

I'm sorry everyone, please be patient with me I am just finding mindfullness so hard!

Thank you!

Stream

Comments

  • edited December 2009
    I am having the same problem. I used to have great meditations, but they just seem to of stopped. I know one shouldnt judge the meditation but one cant help but feel disheartened.

    What does everyone do when you live in a noisy family enviroment also, should I concentrate on the breath as best as I can (easier said then done), or play some peaceful music.

    Help for two poor meditators needed!
  • edited December 2009
    I'm no expert on this, so I'm not going to give any direction. My silence on this matter for now is best, at least I feel that way. I just wanted to drop a note saying "chin up, and keep trying"
    Meditation has changed my life for the good in a very significant way.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Keep coming back to the breath each time you notice a shift away from it, including a shift to negative stuff. It'll take a while for the effects to manifest.
  • jinzangjinzang Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Meditation was not intended as a refuge from your problems. Instead, it's intended to show you your mind as it is, including all the unpleasant parts. It can be tough, but if you stick with it, you'll see the benefit from practice.
  • edited December 2009
    Firstly, do either of you have a teacher? If not, now might be a good time to find one. A wise and knowledgeable teacher can help guide you through things like this. I will try to answer your questions, but I am no teacher.
    Stream wrote: »
    I lose my breath and end up focusing on the negative stuff as a focus for the meditation. It dosn't clear away it just stays in my mind and makes the meditation unbearable and I give up and walk away.

    Sometimes metta (loving-kindness) or karuna (compassion) meditation can help in overcoming negativity.
    Stream wrote: »
    When I fist started this meditation I would sometimes attain quite a blissfull state of mind. Now when I don't acheive this I get real frustrated and it ruins my meditation. Should we meditate even when it isn't joyful?

    Do not try to attain a blissful state. If it happens, that's fine, but you should not have any attachment to such states. By desiring such a state and expecting it, or trying to force attainment of it, you cause this frustration to arise when it doesn't happen.
    Elliott wrote: »
    What does everyone do when you live in a noisy family enviroment also, should I concentrate on the breath as best as I can (easier said then done), or play some peaceful music.

    For the noise issue, try to develop greater equanimity... if that's not enough maybe try reciting mantras. Also, consider visiting your local temple, as they usually will have a quiet place where you can sit and meditate.
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited December 2009
    I have this problem too. Negative incidences, problems in day to day life, stress at work make it very hard to meditate sometimes. No wonder some people leave their home life and become a monk just to practice because our life as a lay person sometimes is too chaotic.

    However, there is nothing much you can do about it. Why not try to do some other meditation than the breath meditation like the metta or walking meditation as already suggested. Breath meditation is hard to do when you are in pain and when you have troubles in your mind. Metta meditation is a superb option in such a situation. It refreshes your mind, makes you strong emotionally.

    Also, please keep in mind that, practice makes perfect. Keep at it. Meditation is not an easy thing to do sometimes and it is common to everyone here. I am sure everyone here has gone through what you are describing. If breath meditation is difficult, then just sit and be mindful of the present moment. You know, listen to the sounds outside but don’t analyze them. Just be aware of here and now. It’s very relaxing… Then if you feel you are stable at this stage, slowly drift your awareness to the breath.
  • edited December 2009
    OK sincerest thanks for your advice everyone, I have taken note of all your positive suggestion thank you so much.
  • shadowleavershadowleaver Veteran
    edited December 2009
    I can totally identify with your frustration. When there is a lot going on in my life, the mind just seems to spin around what's going on, unable to let go. At such times, attempts to meditate resemble fighting more than anything else and I feel an annoying headache.

    Nevertheless, sometimes, 20-30 minutes into the session, something happens and there is an opening. Whatever was bothering me loses its grip and the awareness falls through, down to a less tense place. It is actually such sessions that I find most rewarding, as I get a very encouraging sense of liberation-- the goal of practice to beging with.
  • edited December 2009
    I can totally identify with your frustration. When there is a lot going on in my life, the mind just seems to spin around what's going on, unable to let go. At such times, attempts to meditate resemble fighting more than anything else and I feel an annoying headache.

    Nevertheless, sometimes, 20-30 minutes into the session, something happens and there is an opening. Whatever was bothering me loses its grip and the awareness falls through, down to a less tense place. It is actually such sessions that I find most rewarding, as I get a very encouraging sense of liberation-- the goal of practice to beging with.

    I think my problem is that I am just much weaker than you. The last time I succesfully meditated was at Chittvakka (A Thai Forest Monastery), because your expected to sit with the Sangha and for some reason I found that so much easier, and could meditate for three hours at a time no problem.

    But I just can't sit on my own for any lengh of time with all these demons arising in my mind I am just not strong enough. :(
  • shadowleavershadowleaver Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Stream wrote: »
    I think my problem is that I am just much weaker than you. The last time I succesfully meditated was at Chittvakka (A Thai Forest Monastery), because your expected to sit with the Sangha and for some reason I found that so much easier, and could meditate for three hours at a time no problem.

    But I just can't sit on my own for any lengh of time with all these demons arising in my mind I am just not strong enough. :(

    Stronger? Well, I haven't been strong enough to travel anywhere for practice! I've always led very a comfortable, sedentary life.

    Hope things get better for you!
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Stream wrote: »
    I think my problem is that I am just much weaker than you. The last time I succesfully meditated was at Chittvakka (A Thai Forest Monastery), because your expected to sit with the Sangha and for some reason I found that so much easier, and could meditate for three hours at a time no problem.

    But I just can't sit on my own for any lengh of time with all these demons arising in my mind I am just not strong enough. :(

    Can relate to this too. I also find it much easier to meditate in a group although I haven't done it a lot. If there is a possibility of it, why don't you join a class?
  • edited December 2009
    See my other thread, "my only meditation center is NKT"
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited December 2009
  • skullchinskullchin Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Stream wrote: »
    because your expected to sit with the Sangha and for some reason I found that so much easier, and could meditate for three hours at a time no problem.

    But I just can't sit on my own for any lengh of time with all these demons arising in my mind I am just not strong enough. :(

    I immediately thought of something someone I know does. She calls her friend, they put the phone down, and they meditate. When the timer goes off they pick up the phone, check in, and hang up. That way they have the sense that they are meditating with someone even though they are alone in the room.

    Could something like this be helpful? Just a thought
  • Floating_AbuFloating_Abu Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Stream wrote: »
    Hi everyone,

    I have recently strated practising awareness meditation. But I find it really difficult as things are far from perfect in my life, and I lose my breath and end up focusing on the negative stuff as a focus for the meditation. It dosn't clear away it just stays in my mind and makes the meditation unbearable and I give up and walk away.

    When I fist started this meditation I would sometimes attain quite a blissfull state of mind. Now when I don't acheive this I get real frustrated and it ruins my meditation. Should we meditate even when it isn't joyful?

    I'm sorry everyone, please be patient with me I am just finding mindfullness so hard!

    Thank you!

    Stream

    Dear Stream

    You are in Portsmouth. Perhaps you might find Ajahn Sumedho's teachings interesting. He can be found on Forest Sangha or at Amaravati. Chithurst Buddhist Monastery is also possible.

    In short, yes meditate even when it isn't joyful. True meditation in the Buddhist sense is not about attaining any particular state or state of mind, it is about clarity, seeing things for what they are.

    Take heart, everyone 'seems' to struggle at the beginning, but to continue is very very important.

    With best wishes, and hopes for a good journey for you.

    Abu
  • Floating_AbuFloating_Abu Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Stream wrote: »
    I think my problem is that I am just much weaker than you.


    Entirely untrue. To meditate, through all conditions of mind, is unexcelled bravery. It is probably a good idea to sit daily for a short time, this can orientate you to the conditions of meditation. You are much stronger than your emotions..everyone has these things in their mind, but only few face them and see them for what they are. It is possible though. You are not alone.

    Remember: meditation is not about achieving or keeping any particular state or state of mind. Eightfold path, kindness, meditation. Perseverance, determination.

    Best wishes.
  • edited December 2009
    Dear Stream

    You are in Portsmouth. Perhaps you might find Ajahn Sumedho's teachings interesting. He can be found on Forest Sangha or at Amaravati. Chithurst Buddhist Monastery is also possible.

    In short, yes meditate even when it isn't joyful. True meditation in the Buddhist sense is not about attaining any particular state or state of mind, it is about clarity, seeing things for what they are.

    Take heart, everyone 'seems' to struggle at the beginning, but to continue is very very important.

    With best wishes, and hopes for a good journey for you.

    Abu

    Abu,

    Thank you for that. Yes I find Ajahn Sumedho very interesting and listen to his dhamma talks online when I can. I have visited Chithurst and stayed as a guest twice now. A wonderful experience as the Venerable Ajahn Succito is also very wise, as is the Venerable Jinavamso Bhikku, I do hope to go again soon.

    Thanks again,

    Stream
  • Floating_AbuFloating_Abu Veteran
    edited December 2009
    :)

    Peace and blessings, dear one, on your path, always.

    lotus.jpg

    Gassho.
  • edited December 2009
    poto wrote: »
    For the noise issue, try to develop greater equanimity... if that's not enough maybe try reciting mantras.

    I was thinking that too. Also one can recite the heart sutra or the metta sutta. Or sing a gatha. I will often chant a mantra for 20 minutes before I sit. I have noticed that different mantras can have different effects too. For those lacking resources in their area; youtube can be helpful. Gazing at a mandala or even a nice painting helps me center my mind too. Also, using mudras. That way the ears, the mouth, the eyes, and textile senses are occupied and focused. If I burn a good good quality incense or a nice scented candle; my nose-sense can be focused too. Then, the mind follows.
  • edited December 2009
    robby wrote: »
    I was thinking that too. Also one can recite the heart sutra or the metta sutta. Or sing a gatha. I will often chant a mantra for 20 minutes before I sit. I have noticed that different mantras can have different effects too. For those lacking resources in their area; youtube can be helpful. Gazing at a mandala or even a nice painting helps me center my mind too. Also, using mudras. That way the ears, the mouth, the eyes, and textile senses are occupied and focused. If I burn a good good quality incense or a nice scented candle; my nose-sense can be focused too. Then, the mind follows.

    Hi,

    Its interesting, at the meditation session I just came from we chanted before and after the meditation. Words were used like Bhaggavato or something (sorry if thats wrong) and we recited a verse from the Heart Sutra. Where can I find these chants and mantras?
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Stream wrote: »
    Hi,

    Its interesting, at the meditation session I just came from we chanted before and after the meditation. Words were used like Bhaggavato or something (sorry if thats wrong) and we recited a verse from the Heart Sutra. Where can I find these chants and mantras?

    Usually in a book pal, which meditation centre did you attend ? :p
  • edited December 2009
    Stream wrote: »
    Hi,

    Its interesting, at the meditation session I just came from we chanted before and after the meditation. Words were used like Bhaggavato or something (sorry if thats wrong) and we recited a verse from the Heart Sutra. Where can I find these chants and mantras?

    Om Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma-Sambuddhasa?

    You can go to youtube. Search Mantra, Dharani, Sutta, Sutra. There will be a lot of hits.
  • edited December 2009
    caz namyaw wrote: »
    Usually in a book pal, which meditation centre did you attend ? :p

    A Ch'an meditation group in Portsmouth Caz. It was nice, every one was very friendly.
  • edited December 2009
    robby wrote: »
    Om Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma-Sambuddhasa?

    You can go to youtube. Search Mantra, Dharani, Sutta, Sutra. There will be a lot of hits.

    OK, will do, thanks Robby.
  • edited December 2009
    Stream wrote: »
    OK, will do, thanks Robby.

    I am sure, if you have questions about the background of specific mantras, some here can offer some suggestions. Maybe that would call for a separate thread? I regard contemplative chanting as a form of meditation; though not everyone agrees with this. I think even devotional chanting and prayer chanting have elements of meditation.
  • AllbuddhaBoundAllbuddhaBound Veteran
    edited December 2009
    This is a youtube presentation that can help.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-wyaP6xXwE

    They cannot hurt you. I have found you can get your boat to shore even more quickly, if you embrace the demons rather than try to vanquish them below decks.
  • edited December 2009
    This is a youtube presentation that can help.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-wyaP6xXwE

    They cannot hurt you. I have found you can get your boat to shore even more quickly, if you embrace the demons rather than try to vanquish them below decks.

    Yes, that explains my problem quite well actually. Thanks for the link. Not sure if I will ever be brave enough to make it to shore though.
  • AllbuddhaBoundAllbuddhaBound Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Stream wrote: »
    Yes, that explains my problem quite well actually. Thanks for the link. Not sure if I will ever be brave enough to make it to shore though.

    Patience, determination, repetition and acceptance. It will come.
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