Oracles?

fee

Hello everyone

I watched the film Kundun last night, and really enjoyed it. I wonder if any of you know how true to life the film is?

But, the main question is this. The Dalai Lama was consulting an oracle in the film, a strange head-dressed man who hissed a lot. Now, is this used in Tibetan Buddhism or not, because it kind of freaks me out and makes me think of ancient superstitious nonsense.
I'm not sure I'd like to follow a tradition where this sort of hocus-pocus goes on.

Please don't think I am being rude about their traditions, or denigrating them in any way - it just rings hollow for me.

Any clues, anyone?

Simonthepilgrim

Kundun was based on His Holiness's first autobiography and was made with his help. It appears to be as accurate as any filmography can be.

Oracles are still used in determining the recognition of tulkus, although I am not aware of their being consulted in political decisions any longer, particularly since the change to a democratice, elected government.

Superstitious? Probably. But just as superstitious as our own belief in weather or stock market forecasts.

fee

Hi Simon

I'm impressed with the film even more now. It's amazing to think HHDL had some input, especially when he was portrayed as a little boy telling his dad that he was in charge and would eat eggs if he wanted to. It could have been too easy to leave that arrogance out.

That makes sense to me - the analogy of the weather and stock market forecasts. It makes the whole oracle thing seem a little less weird. I suppose it's just different strokes for different folks - depends where you grow up and your influences as to what seems natural or not.

Do you mind letting me know what a tulku is? I might have read a definition somewhere else, but for the life of me, can't remember.

Thanks

Jason

Tulku means 'reincarnated Lama'.

Palzang

Oracles do seem weird to our "modern" scientific minds. You might think of them as channels, which is more of a contemporary New Agey thing. What the Nechung Oracle in the movie was doing was basically channeling the Nechung deity, Dorje Drakden, a protector who can foretell the future and has the power of clairvoyance (clear seeing). Dorje Drakden's major function is to protect the Dharma, but he is also consulted for important decisions, healing and that sort of thing. This is not so strange to other indigenous people, such as the Australian aborigines or Native Americans, who have similar traditions. It is, unfortunately, a tradition which has long since been extinguished in Western culture. That doesn't mean necessarily that it's a bad thing! The reason they continue to use oracles is because the answers the oracles give are unfailingly good ones.

By the way, the costume the oracle wears weighs over 70 pounds, and the oracle himself is a little old man who can only walk with the costume on with assistance, yet when he is in the trance state, he dances around as if the costume weighed nothing.

Palzang

fee

Thanks Elohim.

Palzang, is the guy in the movie a real oracle? Or just an actor? What is it with all the hissing though, and how do they understand what he's saying?

Does HHDL still use an oracle?

Thanks in advance

Palzang

I believe the oracle in the movie was the real thing, though I'm not positive. The Dalai Lama does still use the Nechung Oracle as he says he has had excellent results from the replies to his questions he gets from the oracle. I don't know what all the hissing is all about or how the assistant understands what he's saying, but somehow he does. Remember, he's not channeling a human being but a protector, which is more like a minor god. There is a page on the Government of Tibet webpage (http://www.tibet.com/Buddhism/nechung_hh.html) that explains the use of oracles by the Dalai Lama and has some comments from His Holiness as well. It's pretty interesting. The use of oracles is also part of Western history, such as the Delphic oracle in ancient Greece.

I think it's also important to remember that Buddhism in Tibet took on many of the cultural appearances of the Tibetan people, so it looks strange to us who come from very different backgrounds. Yet the logic behind these seemingly strange practices makes sense when you know what it is. So I guess the lesson is don't judge a book by its cover.

Palzang

fee

Thanks Palzang

I had a look at the site and it is very interesting. I have certainly had my mind opened a little by asking questions about oracles.

Simonthepilgrim

The Nechung oracle was played, in the film, by Jampa Lungtok, from TIPA (the Tibetan Institute for Performing Arts). Jampa is the Tibetan name of the Buddha-To-Come.

fee

Thanks Simon - that's interesting.