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Meditation from A to Z

NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
edited February 2010 in Meditation
I've started meditating about a year ago. Now, since then i felt like something was missing, even if I realised I've become more aware of the things around me.
Now, back to the "missing part" point.
I really want to know, in detail, how "real" meditation is like. I mean...well...you know what I'm sayin'...

Comments

  • shenpennangwashenpennangwa
    edited February 2010
    NomaD Buddha wrote: »
    I've started meditating about a year ago. Now, since then i felt like something was missing, even if I realised I've become more aware of the things around me.
    Now, back to the "missing part" point.
    I really want to know, in detail, how "real" meditation is like. I mean...well...you know what I'm sayin'...

    Can you be more specific about what it is you feel is missing?
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Well, it's hard to explain, for example i have moments when meditating when thoughts seem to have gone , but they come back, and repeat inside my head...It's like in Enter the Matrix movie with the black cat that did the same thing ( Neo's deja-vu) .So are my thoughts.
    Sometimes I feel like meditating, but after a minute or so, my mind, instinct, you name it, tells me that I shouldn't do that and I feel the need to do something else. I try to ignore that "voice" but when I do so, all the pains gather in the lower back and my neck becomes tense ( when I meditate I sit in a cross-legged position), and my feet start going numb.

    And there are days when I have my mind clear, no thoughts in it ( da' Zen stuff) and suddenly an avalanche of thoughts invade my mind.

    Something like that...
  • jinzangjinzang Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Meditation has a quality where it feels like the real thing is just out of reach. That feeling is an illusion. The real thing is the messy stuff that's going on in your head right now. You can't get realler than what's happening right now. The illusion is the ideal perfect meditation that you are chasing.
  • BrotherBobBrotherBob
    edited February 2010
    how to bake a 'meditation'

    1. Sit Down
    2. Shut-up.
    3. Let-go
    4. Repeat til done.

    :D
  • sukhitasukhita
    edited February 2010
    NomaD Buddha wrote: »
    ..... Sometimes I feel like meditating, but after a minute or so, my mind, instinct, you name it, tells me that I shouldn't do that and I feel the need to do something else. I try to ignore that "voice" but when I do so, all the pains gather in the lower back and my neck becomes tense ( when I meditate I sit in a cross-legged position), and my feet start going numb. ........

    If sensations, thoughts, or feelings arise in meditation, its better to note it mentally without attachment or aversion and ease yourself back into the object of mindfulness, instead of simply "ignoring" them. In insight meditation, the distraction itself could become the object of mindfulness. The specifics will depend on the type of meditation you are practicing.

    You are presently confronted with two "problems" simultaneously - mental feeling + physical pain in lower back and neck. Try sitting on a chair for a few months to reduce any physical pain so you can deal with the mental hinderances. You can later go back to the cross-legged posture.
    :)
  • NiosNios Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Maybe you're not missing anything, but expecting too much??
  • Floating_AbuFloating_Abu Veteran
    edited February 2010
    NomaD Buddha wrote: »
    Well, it's hard to explain, for example i have moments when meditating when thoughts seem to have gone , but they come back, and repeat inside my head...It's like in Enter the Matrix movie with the black cat that did the same thing ( Neo's deja-vu) .So are my thoughts.
    Sometimes I feel like meditating, but after a minute or so, my mind, instinct, you name it, tells me that I shouldn't do that and I feel the need to do something else. I try to ignore that "voice" but when I do so, all the pains gather in the lower back and my neck becomes tense ( when I meditate I sit in a cross-legged position), and my feet start going numb.

    And there are days when I have my mind clear, no thoughts in it ( da' Zen stuff) and suddenly an avalanche of thoughts invade my mind.

    Something like that...

    Some of the best advice I ever received was 'good sit, bad sit, clear sit, a complete mess sit - whatever - still sit'

    What you are describing is normal - just keep at it. Perseverence is necessary in our practice.

    Best wishes,

    Abu

    PS I found this on posture recently, perhaps it might be of some help -- Notes on posture
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Brother Bob wrote: »
    how to bake a 'meditation'

    1. Sit Down
    2. Shut-up.
    3. Let-go
    4. Repeat til done.

    :D

    I'll keep that in mind, thanks :D !!
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Floating_Abu wrote: »
    Some of the best advice I ever received was 'good sit, bad sit, clear sit, a complete mess sit - whatever - still sit'

    What you are describing is normal - just keep at it. Perseverence is necessary in our practice.

    Best wishes,

    Abu

    PS I found this on posture recently, perhaps it might be of some help -- Notes on posture

    Aha, so your suggestion is to " Keep it real" ! :D I'll scope that !!
    Many thanks :D.
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Nios wrote: »
    Maybe you're not missing anything, but expecting too much??

    You know you're right? (Imma call you Mr. Right :D ). I mean, yeah, I must have been expecting too much. It's the Romanian mentality to have great expectations from something that is believed to be a wonder (e.g.:if some country produced a car that looks like an UFO, meaning it has a great aspect, late generation technology , etc, we Romanians, who would buy that car would think that this car would have a death-prevention system in case of an accident, or some other miraculous things we could attribute to that new car.)
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    jinzang wrote: »
    Meditation has a quality where it feels like the real thing is just out of reach. That feeling is an illusion. The real thing is the messy stuff that's going on in your head right now. You can't get realler than what's happening right now. The illusion is the ideal perfect meditation that you are chasing.

    So, you say that I should stop chasing the illusion of that perfect meditation and just stick with it no matter how imperfect that is. Right, I'll write it in my notebook ( no joking with the notebook :D) .
    Thanks a lot :D !!
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    sukhita wrote: »
    If sensations, thoughts, or feelings arise in meditation, its better to note it mentally without attachment or aversion and ease yourself back into the object of mindfulness, instead of simply "ignoring" them. In insight meditation, the distraction itself could become the object of mindfulness. The specifics will depend on the type of meditation you are practicing.

    You are presently confronted with two "problems" simultaneously - mental feeling + physical pain in lower back and neck. Try sitting on a chair for a few months to reduce any physical pain so you can deal with the mental hinderances. You can later go back to the cross-legged posture.
    :)

    I..think I got it. You mean that even distraction itself should not be jugded, but instead I should allow it to manifest without my intervention( Kno' wha' I'm sayin' ? :grin:).
    Well, I don't really know the difference between insight, mindful and other types of meditations...
    Now, with the posture, I've found a solution ! Thanks a lot for the advise anyway :grin: !!
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited February 2010
    NomaD Buddha wrote: »
    Well, it's hard to explain, for example i have moments when meditating when thoughts seem to have gone , but they come back, and repeat inside my head...It's like in Enter the Matrix movie with the black cat that did the same thing ( Neo's deja-vu) .So are my thoughts.
    Sometimes I feel like meditating, but after a minute or so, my mind, instinct, you name it, tells me that I shouldn't do that and I feel the need to do something else. I try to ignore that "voice" but when I do so, all the pains gather in the lower back and my neck becomes tense ( when I meditate I sit in a cross-legged position), and my feet start going numb.

    And there are days when I have my mind clear, no thoughts in it ( da' Zen stuff) and suddenly an avalanche of thoughts invade my mind.

    Something like that...

    I think you are just restless. Restlessness is a major hindrance in meditation and bad news is, usually when you overcome restlessness you fall into the pit of sloth and torpor. It happens to me all the time.

    Restlessness is the feeling that tells you that you shouldn't be doing it and the moment you start to do something else it tells you that you should get back to the one you did before. It's just that the mind is so used to stimulation, thoughts, inner chatter and all that, the moment you abandon them your mind becomes like a fish out of water.

    So what do we do? We train the mind. Fighting the hindrances is the goal of samatha. If you get hold of a meditation handbook (like the mindfulness, bliss and beyond) or a teacher it will give you instructions on how to overcome these hindrances step by step and how to reach very peaceful states
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Deshy wrote: »
    I think you are just restless. Restlessness is a major hindrance in meditation and bad news is, usually when you overcome restlessness you fall into the pit of sloth and torpor. It happens to me all the time.

    Restlessness is the feeling that tells you that you shouldn't be doing it and the moment you start to do something else it tells you that you should get back to the one you did before. It's just that the mind is so used to stimulation, thoughts, inner chatter and all that, the moment you abandon them your mind becomes like a fish out of water.

    So what do we do? We train the mind. Fighting the hindrances is the goal of samatha. If you get hold of a meditation handbook (like the mindfulness, bliss and beyond) or a teacher it will give you instructions on how to overcome these hindrances step by step and how to reach very peaceful states

    Like others said before, I should accept everything that passes through my mind without judging it...
    And yeah, you're somewhat right about my restlessness, and I'll try to do something about it.
    And about the teacher with the meditation instructions...in my country there's no such thing as Buddhism. Well, I tried to look for a dojo, or a small "temple", but the nearest one is in another region of my country :(. So I have to educate myself...of course, with the help of the sangha ( the buddhist community around the world :D) !
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited February 2010
    NomaD Buddha wrote: »
    Like others said before, I should accept everything that passes through my mind without judging it...
    And yeah, you're somewhat right about my restlessness, and I'll try to do something about it.
    And about the teacher with the meditation instructions...in my country there's no such thing as Buddhism. Well, I tried to look for a dojo, or a small "temple", but the nearest one is in another region of my country :(. So I have to educate myself...of course, with the help of the sangha ( the buddhist community around the world :D) !

    Well that's ok. I also don't have a teacher. My teacher is mostly my meditation handbook: mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond by Ajhan Brahm

    If it is possible get a copy of this book. As it was written by a monk of the Thai forest tradition who has spent many years in the meditative practice you can safely take his advice. Trust me the book is superb.

    If you want to you can read the first five chapters here before buying the book
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Too bad I can't find books like these in Bucharest.
    And what is Thai forest ?
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Check out this series as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd7a9Ur2x0o&feature=related

    Another monk from the forest tradition. It addresses most basic things we all need to know
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Thanks :D
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited February 2010
    NomaD Buddha wrote: »
    Too bad I can't find books like these in Bucharest.
    And what is Thai forest ?

    You can order it online. Anyway is the pdf in my link blocked or something? You can read the first five chapters for free :)

    A google search will get you details on what Thai forest tradition is. It's basically monks living in seclusion mostly in monasteries nearby the forest. They lead a more simple life depending on the arms food. Similar to what the Buddha and his disciples did years back.

    Important thing is their simplified lifestyle get them the opportunity to meditate like 8 hours a day year after year so most of these monks really know what they are talking about when it comes to meditation. There is also wide-spread belief that at least some of them have reaped some fruitful states in Buddhist meditation.
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Deshy wrote: »
    You can order it online. Anyway is the pdf in my link blocked or something? You can read the first five chapters for free :)

    A google search will get you details on what Thai forest tradition is. It's basically monks living in seclusion mostly in monasteries nearby the forest. They lead a more simple life depending on the arms food. Similar to what the Buddha and his disciples did years back.

    Important thing is their simplified lifestyle get them the opportunity to meditate like 8 hours a day year after year so most of these monks really know what they are talking about when it comes to meditation. There is also wide-spread belief that at least some of them have reaped some fruitful states in Buddhist meditation.

    Got it ! :D ...And the link worked very well
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited February 2010
    NomaD Buddha wrote: »
    Got it ! :D ...And the link worked very well

    Good. You are in good hands... Actually it was these five chapters that basically motivated me to meditate in the first place :D
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited February 2010
    Deshy wrote: »
    Check out this series as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd7a9Ur2x0o&feature=related

    Another monk from the forest tradition. It addresses most basic things we all need to know



    I agree that this is a good series, I recommend it to people too :)


    _/\_


    .
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Dazzle wrote: »
    I agree that this is a good series, I recommend it to people too :)


    _/\_


    .

    Thanks, I'll scope that !:)
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