Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

confused about parinirvana

TreebeardTreebeard
edited September 2005 in Buddhism Basics
Hello all, first post here. :)

I'm fairly new to buddhism, and had a question that I can't seem to find an answer to anywhere on the web. now as I understand it, samsura, the needless ignorance and suffering in all life, is the cause of rebirth. when one reaches enlightenment, they sever themselves from the cycle of karma and end the cycle of rebirth.

so here's the part I'm not too sure on. what happened to the buddha and all others who attain enlightenment after death? I mean is that it, the cycle is ended and you blink out of existence? if so, I can't say I understand why enlightenment would be very appealing in that aspect, seems rather pointless. or did buddha do sort of an obi-wan-kenobi absorbing into the force thing? (lol, very nerdy refference I know). or is there something I'm missing? this has just always confused me.

p.s. look forward to future discussion with you all! :)

Comments

  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited September 2005
    Please read these Suttas first and see if they help you to understand the idea of what happens to a Buddha/arahant after death.

    Kotthita Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/anguttara/an04-174.html
    Anuradha Sutta http://pratyeka.org/a2i/canon/sutta/samyutta/sn22-086.html
    Cula-Malunkyovada Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/majjhima/mn-063-tb0.html
    Kokanuda Sutta http://pratyeka.org/a2i/canon/sutta/anguttara/an10-096.html

    Please read these Suttas first to see if they help you to understand the reasons why one would want to experience Nibbana:

    Sukhavagga http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/khuddaka/dhp/tb0/dhp-15-tb0.html#202
    Nibbana Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/anguttara/an09-034.html
    Magandiya Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/majjhima/mn-075x-tb0.html
    Bahuvedaniya Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/majjhima/mn-059-nt2.html#degrees
    Pañcakanga Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/samyutta/sn-36-019-nt2.html#degrees
    Niramisa Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/samyutta/sn36-031.html

    After you read these I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. :)

    Jason
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited September 2005
    I was in the middle of trying to post a nice, welcoming if slightly verbose reply, and my server froze.... :grumble:

    Star Wars is a good thing to pick up on... Yoda's likeness is based on two or three Tibetan Lamas/Monks.... the original Trilogy was heavily laced with Buddhist Philosophy.... not so nerdy after all.

    Welcome to our humble little wonderful home! :)
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited September 2005
    It is kind of our Brother Elohim to give links to many sutras.

    Having read each one and reflected on them, if only for a day, it seems to me that the World-Honoured Tathagata, the Buddha Shakyamuni, was careful not to define 'exactly' what 'happens' in nibbana. How can one describe it? Those of us who love and use the Heart Sutra are presented with this paradox every time we return to its sublime wisdom.
    "O Shariputra, a son or daughter of noble family who wishes to practice the profound prajnaparamita should see in this way: seeing the five skandhas to be empty of nature. Form is emptiness; emptiness also is form. Emptiness is no other than form; form is no other than emptiness. In the same way, feeling, perception, formation, and consciousness are emptiness. Thus, Shariputra, all dharmas are emptiness. There are no characteristics. There is no birth and no cessation. There is no impurity and no purity. There is no decrease and no increase. Therefore, Shariputra, in emptiness, there is no form, no feeling, no perception, no formation, no consciousness; no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind; no appearance, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no dharmas, no eye dhatu up to no mind dhatu, no dhatu of dharmas, no mind consciousness dhatu; no ignorance, no end of ignorance up to no old age and death, no end of old age and death; no suffering, no origin of suffering, no cessation of suffering, no path, no wisdom, no attainment, and no non-attainment. Therefore, Shariputra, since the bodhisattvas have no attainment, they abide by means of prajnaparamita.

    Since there is no obscuration of mind, there is no fear. They transcend falsity and attain complete nirvana. All the buddhas of the three times, by means of prajnaparamita, fully awaken to unsurpassable, true, complete enlightenment. Therefore, the great mantra of prajnaparamita, the mantra of great insight, the unsurpassed mantra, the unequaled mantra, the mantra that calms all suffering, should be known as truth, since there is no deception. The prajnaparamita mantra is said in this way:
    OM GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA


    It is, therefore, not possible to say that a Tathagata exists or does not exist after death because neither category can contain nibbana which goes beyond categories and contingencies.

    Thus, the question itself leads us into speculations which remove our attention from the Noble Eightfold Path. The Dharma shows that in the unbound state, neither birth nor death has eternal or independent reality. How than can there be a question about birth or death when the Tathagata goes beyond both?
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited September 2005
    Exactly. :)
  • _BeautifulSpringtime_BeautifulSpringtime Veteran
    edited September 2005
    Elohim wrote:
    Exactly. :)

    and no-exactly! ;)
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited September 2005
    :lol:
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited September 2005
    Star Wars is something I like and the "Force" thingy is reflected in Chinese Buddhism and Taoism as the "qi"... I love Yoda, he's my favourite character!

    Anyway paranirvana is something difficult to express in words... You have to read the many sutras and understand the questions to know what is it actually. It's more of a process than a result thing.
  • TreebeardTreebeard
    edited September 2005
    Elohim wrote:
    :lol:

    there's something funny about monks being burned alive?

    personally, I think it was a terrible waste.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited September 2005
    My friend,

    I think you confused the context in which the laugh arose. It had nothing to do with Thich Quang Duc.

    Jason
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited September 2005
    mr-devious wrote:
    there's something funny about monks being burned alive?

    personally, I think it was a terrible waste.

    Mr. Devious, the picture of the burning Monk is BeautifulSpringtimeFists's perpetual signature/image.... and Elohim was laughing at something quite different.... follow the thread.... :)
  • TreebeardTreebeard
    edited September 2005
    lol, sorry, stupid mistake :o
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited September 2005
    :) No problem.
Sign In or Register to comment.