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How to demonstrate the existence of Karma
NomaDBuddha
Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
Being a buddhist now, I have to answer questions about karma, rebirth, Buddha and so on. One day , I battled an atheist and I lost because I don't know how to demonstarte the existence of karma. Now, I know( say like feel it) that karma is omnipresent and omnipotent and such.
But how can I demonstrate it's existence ? Any ideas ?
But how can I demonstrate it's existence ? Any ideas ?
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Yeah. Reminds od something I've seen in a movie: a guy and his clairvoyant girlfriend were sitting on a bench. A poor man passes in front of them, and the woman said "He will die in a car accident.". The guy asked her why didn't she want to warn the poor man, and she said "If I tell him that, then after an hour, he will go by a building site, and a heavy load will fall on him". The guy " But, if you warn him again?";the woman "Then he would die , drowned in his own bathroom. You, know, death always finds a way to hit it's target".
So, if make the link between karma and death, hen you'll get ha karma, as death, is omnipotent and omnipresent.
But still, how do I demonstrate the existence of karma ?
How to demonstrate karma, seriously punch your friend, then reap the fruits of your karma
I don't believe in Karma as some independent principle that is omnipresent, omnipotent etc. I think it's just commonsense-- you're good to people, they'll naturally like you and be good to you. If you're being a jerk, people won't like you and not give you much sympathy. If your outlook on things is positive, your mind is healthier and you see more opportunities. If you're gloomy most of the time, you've mentally conditioned yourself for defeat and misery.
Now if I'm an old man on my deathbed with a gun and shoot someone a few minutes before dying, I probably won't "reap" anything ever. For me to be able to reap there would need to be personal post-mortem existence which I very much doubt exists.
The initial story is horrific. How could one human being suffer so much? My heart goes out to him.
The next story in the paper is this very same man who was attacked by his neighbors dog had neglected and abused his own dogs. Several dogs starved to death, one dog was tied to a post with a chain that was so short it couldn't reach food or water. The puppies were traumatized. The dead dogs stomach contents only contained pine needles.
Considering the harm this man caused, with his ignorance and cruelty it's amazing that he didn't die of his injuries and he has the opportunity to mend his ways. How human this man an how mixed his karma.
This is a true story.
You may be right. Nonetheless if all it is is coincidence it sure is ugly.
To prove to him say that the sun rises in the east. That is an example of karma. It is just a relationship.
If tomorrow the sun rises in the west that is still karma because it is still a relationship!
Now only a buddha knows the reasons for all the relationships...
You may not be able to prove a buddha exists..
At least I do not know how to prove it other than a buddha is defined by a relationship to suffering among other things and ability to transform it.
:eek:...too much suffering on both sides...
Karma..isn't that cause-effect chain ?? Now that's what I've learned so far...
It does not evaluate what you do, provide retribution or bring the good to lofty heights...
It just 'is'.
The whole process commences with what you think.
If you watch the thinking, and it's positivity or negativity, then you can either perpetuate or forestall the word/action that follows.
Mind precedes all states.
"If you wish to know what you once were and how you got here, look at your body, now. If you wish to know what you will be and how you'll get there, look at your mind, now."
Hope that helps.
Now I realised that I know nothing
Clarify what you mean about evolution....?
Get drunk some Saturday night and yell at a police officer, "You can't touch me, Pig!!"
Karma is an unconjecturable, so don't expect to be able to convincingly show how it works.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.077.than.html
So this bhikku says that is better to leave the concept of karma as it is, rather than trying to explain it ?
Maybe I won't get touched if I get drunk on a Saturday night and yell at the police !:D Who knows, in my country, police would ignore me being in that drunken state.
It's both. Well, I've been taught that karma is a cause-effect chain(you do good, you receive good; you do bad, you receive bad), but some thing in my life demonstrated me the contrary, and so, I started to search about karma, but never really understood this concept. The conclusion was that karma was something that was beyond that simple cause-effect chain.
Aaah, yeah, so no one can see the exact results. So, yeah, better to leave the karma be just karma !
I understand now.
Karma is a cause-effect chain, but good and bad don't really enter into it. It is not a force for cosmic jurisprudence. As Ken says in those essays, actions and intentions set up and reinforce patterns of perception, thought, reactivity and behavior. Those patterns are karma. That's all there is to it.
Love & Peace
Jellybean
Yeah, I am happy with myself as I am right now, but still no one understands me. And because I'm hard to be understood, this thing generates bad conflicts, which I try to avoid, but whatever I do, I fail.
To a certain extent, If you think like this, it's the way you will see the world.
Again... Who knows ?
Love & Peace
Jellybean
I have nothing like that.
Have some, but I can't rely on them when I need something. They rely on me most of their time.
Maybe I am a nice person
Like time and gravity it is not something metaphysical it is very real. But sometimes when you are a subroutine it's hard to see the properties of the programme.
Got that.
Things are different in the West of Europe. Here in the East...it's another story.
Well (sorry for the offtopic) I prefer to take advatage of something rather than just let it be. Don't get me wrong, with this advantage I can give a share to my friends ( Ha! Found some friends lately, but no girlfriends
Question your view that no one understands you. And that your hard to be understood. It may just be a view you've seen to be true at one point. But as we know. All is imperminent. So hold to such view's is unwise.
Also, if you think, "people dont understand me" your more likely to see things that confirm that thought and as such you behaviour will be effected. So you will act like somebody who isn't understood.
So really try to go give up that thought for a bit. See what happens. Maybe nothing will happen, but if you really give up that thought, you'll prolly be happier.
I've passed that kind of suffering, of not being understood, but now, I'm a lot happier with who I am rather than who I must pretend to be.
Bah off topic as usual.