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Meditation Frustrations
I'll start this off first stating that meditation HAS helped me slowly start changing the person I am, and the perception of what that person "is or isn't". Following Buddhism having a postiive effect on my life, and I still very much enjoy my time everyday that I spend meditating.
My frustration though is, and I don't know if this is normal, that it's been two months, and I haven't yet felt what a lot of people have reported feeling. I can:
1. Bring myself to a relaxed state....check.
2. Focus on my meditation object.....check.
3. Start having the reality of things around me fall away, or become clearer...check.
But for the most part, I feel lost still. I've never felt the extreme bliss others have felt. I know chasing sensory feelings defeats the purpose, but I can't help but try to compare my experiences with others. Maybe the problem is I haven't really relinquished control of anything, because that's the type of person I've been conditioned to be. Martial Arts and life in general has taught me to be in supreme control of myself physically and mentally, and to NOT lose control of either of those things. So I don't know how to give up control.
When I focus on my breathing, instead of just being WITH my breathing and observing, I instead find myself trying to consciously control it.
Mentally I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. When I get relaxed, I start asking myself "who am i?" or circular questions like that. Or if there was a particularly troubling part of my day, I'll focus on that and live it out in my mind and try to practice compassion towards the other person, and understand their motivations, as well as seeing what I could have done differently.
Often times I feel depressed, sad or angry about something, I'll focus on that feeling intensly and imagine letting go of it.
But I feel lost like I don't know what I'm doing, and like I said I think my need to control things is hindering my progress. I have yet to feel even a taste of beginning stages of awareness, or extreme calm. I know it's been only 2 months, and it might be my western mind's need for everything now now now, but when I hear about other peoples experiences, I often wonder "why not me?" or "am I doing something wrong?"
any help is appreciated.
PS: physically I might also be hindered. I can't seem to be comfortable for too long.. Too long in Burmese, or Half Lotus (which is sadly only 15 minutes) and my legs start falling asleep. Now I can usually deaden myself to the pain, and not focus on it, but eventually, after a total of 20-25 minutes the sensation is too overwhelming, and I have to stop. Maybe that's part of my problem as well..not enough time to really dig in.
My frustration though is, and I don't know if this is normal, that it's been two months, and I haven't yet felt what a lot of people have reported feeling. I can:
1. Bring myself to a relaxed state....check.
2. Focus on my meditation object.....check.
3. Start having the reality of things around me fall away, or become clearer...check.
But for the most part, I feel lost still. I've never felt the extreme bliss others have felt. I know chasing sensory feelings defeats the purpose, but I can't help but try to compare my experiences with others. Maybe the problem is I haven't really relinquished control of anything, because that's the type of person I've been conditioned to be. Martial Arts and life in general has taught me to be in supreme control of myself physically and mentally, and to NOT lose control of either of those things. So I don't know how to give up control.
When I focus on my breathing, instead of just being WITH my breathing and observing, I instead find myself trying to consciously control it.
Mentally I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. When I get relaxed, I start asking myself "who am i?" or circular questions like that. Or if there was a particularly troubling part of my day, I'll focus on that and live it out in my mind and try to practice compassion towards the other person, and understand their motivations, as well as seeing what I could have done differently.
Often times I feel depressed, sad or angry about something, I'll focus on that feeling intensly and imagine letting go of it.
But I feel lost like I don't know what I'm doing, and like I said I think my need to control things is hindering my progress. I have yet to feel even a taste of beginning stages of awareness, or extreme calm. I know it's been only 2 months, and it might be my western mind's need for everything now now now, but when I hear about other peoples experiences, I often wonder "why not me?" or "am I doing something wrong?"
any help is appreciated.
PS: physically I might also be hindered. I can't seem to be comfortable for too long.. Too long in Burmese, or Half Lotus (which is sadly only 15 minutes) and my legs start falling asleep. Now I can usually deaden myself to the pain, and not focus on it, but eventually, after a total of 20-25 minutes the sensation is too overwhelming, and I have to stop. Maybe that's part of my problem as well..not enough time to really dig in.
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Comments
When you find yourself doing this, don't worry about it, just stop controlling and start fresh. Do this as often as you need.
Same thing with thoughts, like events of the day. When you find yourself turning these over in your mind, stop thinking about them and put them aside.
Don't worry about this. With more practice, it will become less of a problem. You might just go with shorter periods for now, or do your longer periods in a different posture.
So you torture yourself. You haven't let go of your need to control the situation and the pain. (if i get up, the pain will stop)
You have to settle with what is. for 30 minute or one hour, you will not control everything, you will only observe. Whatever arise, i will not interact with it, i will only observe it.
The pain in the leg is there, just observe it like you would observe a bird outside your window.
Just let it be, and only observe.
(ps my legs fall asleep as well 10-15 minutes in every sittings.)
So what you're saying is when the pain and pins and needles start in my leg to observe it as long as i can and then just stand up to alleviate it when i can't take it anymore, rather than consciously trying to ignore it, or focus on it? I always thought that when something arises like that that distracts y ou from your meditation object so much, that it was ok to instead make THAT your meditation object.
Or are you saying that if i've decided in my head to stay for a certain period of time, then it wouldn't be such an issue? Like if I said "I'm going to sit for 30 minutes" and not get up until then...it might be easier to just observe what I go through? sorry your meaning got lost in the way the words read back.
I thought through the analytical side of meditation i was SUPPOSED to analyze the moments in my life that I could have been better, or shown more compassion. Am i supposed to, instead, let it play out again as happened, only as an observer, with no analytical thought?
about the control of breathing ..i've felt times where i have been REALLY close to something..when i almost totally let go of control of my breathing, and was just able to sit and observe it h appening in my body without my control..and the few times that have happened, i felt the slightest brush against something great...but immediately lost it upon noticing the feeling.
am i completely incapable of expressing myself??
just observe the pain, without reacting to it.
and move back to your breath or to another body part depending on which mediation you do...
Please re-read my previous post with this in mind.
there is no such thing as "i can't take it anymore".
this mean that you are "enduring" the pain, you haven't let go of your desire to control it, and control your situation.
you must let go of this, and simply observe.
If you base your own meditation practice on what others have felt or "report" feeling, then you are starting on the wrong foot. Forget about what you're "supposed" to feel.
What exactly IS your meditation object. There are many different kinds of meditation and you've said you focus on breath, but then you also say you switch the focus to whatever distracts you enough from the breath. I'm no zen master or Thic Nhat Hahn (SP?), but this just doesn't seem right.
Where did you learn how to meditate? Maybe you got a hold of wrong information as you began your practice.
You KNOW it's not right to chase sensory feelings and compare to others, but yet you still do it? Try to let go of comparisons and ideals first and then your sitting practice might start changing positively without you even trying.
This is a particularly difficult thing to accomplish for me too. I always try to control the breath, even if it's in a slight way. It's hard to let go, isn't it?
This will depend on what kind of meditation you are practicing. But I'd say reflecting on the past and what you could have done better, is not a "technique" I'm familiar with and doesn't fit the concept of focusing on the present and being here, now.
If others here know what kind of meditation he is talking about, please enlighten me.
You're right. It HAS only been two months. Nobody becomes a perfectly enlightened buddha in that time frame. Give it time, give your practice a chance to mature and don't feel like you're failing just cuz you haven't felt something others have described to you.
I have this problem too. After 20 minutes of sitting in Burmese, my left leg is DEAD. It takes the focus away from my meditation and I don't enjoy it, but it's a problem that can easily be solved by meditating on a chair instead.
pattb's suggestion of not reacting to the pain and just observing it, sounds like good advice in writing, but in a real life situation, considering most people can't tolerate pain too well and are used to run away from it, it might just not be "doable", so a chair might help you more after all.
This is good advice.
I think focusing on "stopping" anything, is the wrong way to go. If thoughts arise, let them be, be aware of them and see them pass. Keep returning to here and now and your object of meditation.
One Zen Master said once "Proper practice has no checking" :-)
As far as posture is concerned, I'm old and fat, so I simply sit on the edge of a chair, eyes closed, back straight, hands in my lap. Any other posture I find to be a distraction from my meditation. Some traditions are very particular about posture, others are less restrictive. If you feel it important to sit in a particular posture, I'd say do it until it becomes uncomfortable. Then either switch to a different posture, or take a break. You should be able to gradually increase the amount of time you spend in the desired posture.
I seem to recall a story about the Buddha likening the correct mental state of meditation to tuning a stringed instrument. Set the string too tight, and it sounds wrong. Set the string too loosely, and it still sounds wrong. Set it just right, and you get beautiful music. It sounds like you might be trying to hard. Try relaxing a bit, and not being so focused on attaining a particular state of mind.
I don't think broad general statements like that really help the argument. What's could my response possibly be to that? SURE! let me just pull 5,000.00 out of my behind to go to China to talk to a monk. I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but that contributes nothing.
Try being less rigid in other parts of your life. This is something I've been struggling with, as I'd done a great job and put GREAT effort into developing and maintaining a very structured environment and schedule. While it was important for me to develop that at one point in my life, my life is now calling for me to be more flexible. If I miss a day of meditation, I don't get angry with myself, because this does nothing but further frustrate me. Have compassion with yourself and with your practice.
Also, I frequently meditate just laying down with my arms relaxed beside my body.
Try to make meditation work for you - don't try to make yourself work with others' guidelines and rules regarding meditation. Once you find a great system just for you (it may be something no one else has ever considered!) and really tune yourself to that, you'll get great benefits - they might not be the benefits that you are expecting or hoping for, but they will be the best benefits for you in your life right where you are at this time.
After that, then try someone else's rules.
If you looked down and noticed that your arms are tugging on a rope, stopping would simply mean not pulling on or even letting go of the rope. It requires no additional focus, effort, or thought. Stop tugging on the rope and return to meditating.
That's a good example. I was assuming that by "stopping" you also meant to KEEP thoughts at bay from that point ahead and stopping them before they rise, which would definitely take away from the main focus, but I see now that you didn't mean it like that.
I presume you have a meditation instruction and its very simple. Just follow it. If you are trying to do something with your meditation....STOP. Just let it be as it is.
Part of meditation is being honest and sitting with confusion or difficulties. Without that quality no progress can be made.
I have been meditating almost every day since 2002 and nothing special has happened though it does feel nice sometimes. I mean no peak experience. It is special that I have trust in my mind as it is I guess. And that I know that thinking and moods color our experience. Humbling rather than exalting, believe you me.
If you have to just sit crossed leg native American style then do it. No need to sit in any particular way, if this is going to hinder you. My feet and legs fall asleep all the time, I just don't regard them. I hope some of this helps:)
Yours in the Dharma,
Todd
Here's a quote I liked from another thread:
I know nothing about nothing, but I suspect this is good advice for you. I do not think you should think of analyzing situations as part of your meditation practice since you are (by your own admission and questions) having trouble with the very basics.
For me, I have felt that the insights about my life have come from meditation precisely because I was practicing being in the now instead of analyzing the past or future. If you become aware that you have been analyzing some situation or thinking about some past situation or imagining some future situation, then congratulations: You have become aware and you can let those thoughts slip away. They are not what are needed at that moment.
i agree.
Todd, i found the most help in your post. Thank you so much. I think I've found the problem, with your help, in that I am trying to combine too much into my meditation sessions...when I should be breaking things up. My formal meditation should just be only about sitting still and just being. If I have an issue I need to work out, or an instance where I was not the best version of myself, then I should meditate on that separately, and analyze that using some skills from meditation...but not mix the two.
My problem, as I have stated in an earlier post maybe a couple months ago, is that I come from a martial arts background. Meditation in martial arts now (and it's the same even in Shaolin now, as its a shadow of it's former religious roots) is usually just taking you to that mental stillness, and then meditating with the goal of improving your martial arts, by focusing on the focus of energy and how to use it. Sure you still aim for that mental stillness, but usually its not for the purpose of enlightenment, its for the purpose of bettering your martial arts. As I mentioned in my earlier thread, I have meditated for lots of years, but as a martial artist. I can take myself to that place of mental stillness easily, but as a new Buddhist, it's the step after that that constantly confuses me.
And I've read so many things from so many different schools of thought on the subject, that I think I ended up mixing them together in a big hodge podge of practices.
So it's time to deconstruct....keep my main meditation solely for pure sit down and breathing time, and portion off all the other issues into their own sessions or timeouts during the day.
Thank you much for your help. I can't wait to start applying it.
I think this would be a good start. Keep it simple, don't try to make anything. I just started reading "Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond" by Ajahn Brahm and I have already found it useful. In the first chapter Ajahn Brahm lists two prerequisites before one even starts to concentrate on the breath, cultivating present moment awareness and silent present moment awarenesss. The first obstacle to present moment awareness is the minds tendency to go off in the past or future and the second obstacle to silent present moment awareness is inner speech. He believes being grounded in present moment awareness and silent present moment awarenesss (he gives examples of each) is solid preparation for deeper meditation on the breath. The first 5 chapters can be found free on line here: http://www.quangduc.com/English/Zen/39mindfulness.html
http://www.quangduc.com/English/Zen/MindfulnessBlissAndBeyondChapters1-5.pdf
To me it makes a lot of practical sense and would give one a good place to start off well. Just another thing to consider.:)
Yours in the Dharma,
Todd
P.S. I would also consider Listen's advice as very sound:"I do not think you should think of analyzing situations as part of your meditation practice since you are (by your own admission and questions) having trouble with the very basics."
Not trying to be spooky or mean but it is something to think about.
People who practice buddhism to be peaceful or more adjusted have same issue. At some point your practice needs to be about wisdom and compassion or you will not make that progress that is needed. The needed sacrifices and so forth.
At the same time its not wrong to have a goal of martial arts or peaceful. Its all steps along the way. Though something to think about.