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Who did Buddha help?
buddhafoot
Veteran
I'll try to explain what I'm thinking here...
I know that Buddha helped us by giving us a wonderful gift - the guidelines to "awakening". That's pretty important stuff and I'm not meaning to minimalize it...
But, on the other hand...
I know there are teachings of compassion and such for our fellow man.
But who did Buddha "help"? Did he go around building homes for people? Donating money to his local Red Cross?
I find a lot of people equating "helping people" to Buddha's teachings - and I'm just wondering where that came from. It seems to be that a lot of the Eightfold Path is about how "you" should be as a person - not what you "do" for other people. Ascetics "gig", in Siddartha's time, was NOT helping their fellow man.
-bf
I know that Buddha helped us by giving us a wonderful gift - the guidelines to "awakening". That's pretty important stuff and I'm not meaning to minimalize it...
But, on the other hand...
I know there are teachings of compassion and such for our fellow man.
But who did Buddha "help"? Did he go around building homes for people? Donating money to his local Red Cross?
I find a lot of people equating "helping people" to Buddha's teachings - and I'm just wondering where that came from. It seems to be that a lot of the Eightfold Path is about how "you" should be as a person - not what you "do" for other people. Ascetics "gig", in Siddartha's time, was NOT helping their fellow man.
-bf
0
Comments
Through working the mind, through training it by the Noble Eightfold Path, through meditation and contemplation, and through understanding it thoroughly we are then able to help others out of compassion rather than just having the Buddha tell us to do it.
Once we clearly see this mind, this body, and this life for what they really are we instinctually develop compassion for all other sentient beings. Why? Because we can now see the suffering that they go through physically and mentally with equanimity and wisdom.
We no longer live in confusion. We no longer judge. We no longer are selfish because there is no more idea of "Self". We can give because we no longer want, crave, or grasp - What good is money or fame or prestige to a person without a "Self"? When we truly see this mind and body for what it is, as a conditioned phenomenon, we no longer grasp at our conditioned ego as "us". There is no more "them". We have destroyed what separates us from all other sentient beings - avijja (ignorance, not-knowing).
Who did the Buddha help, or perhaps we might ask what did he help?
He helped the direct cause for all of our suffering - our minds. He didn't worry about dressing up the symptoms, he went straight for the cure. For example, if a person had a broken arm you could continually give them pain medications so that they didn't feel it, that would be compassionate at one level - but why not just fix the arm itself? That is compassion on a completely different level.
Basically, the Buddha never said, "Worry about yourself only, don't help the needy.". He more implied, "Worry about yourself first, and then help the needy." because we all have the same underlying problems in our mind - those being greed, hatred, and delusion.
He was just the first person to offer a cure for that.
That is how I personally see it anyway. I too wish that the Buddhist community was more involved in helping those less fortunate (like many Christian charities and missionaries do), but that is not the Buddha's fault in my opinion, it is our own.
Jason
"This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "These three types of persons can be found existing in the world. Which three? One like a cloud without rain, one who rains locally, and one who rains everywhere.
"And how is a person like a cloud without rain? There is the case where a person is not a giver of food, drink, clothing, vehicles, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, dwellings, or lights to any priests or contemplatives, to any of the miserable, the homeless, or beggars. This is how a person is like a cloud without rain.
"And how is a person one who rains locally? There is the case where a person is a giver of food, drink, clothing, vehicles, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, dwellings, & lights to some priests & contemplatives, to some of the miserable, the homeless, & beggars, and not to others. This is how a person one who rains locally.
"And how is a person one who rains everywhere? There is the case where a person gives food, drink, clothing, vehicles, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, dwellings, & lights to all priests & contemplatives, to all of the miserable, the homeless, & beggars. This is how a person one who rains everywhere.
"These are the three types of persons who can be found existing in the world."
Not to contemplatives,
to priests,
to the miserable,
nor to the homeless
does he share what he's gained:
food,
drinks,
nourishment.
He, that lowest of people,
is called a cloud with no rain.
To some he gives,
to others he doesn't:
the intelligent call him
one who rains locally.
A person responsive to requests,
sympathetic to all beings,
delighting in distributing alms:
"Give to them!
Give!"
he says.
As a cloud -- resounding, thundering -- rains,
filling with water, drenching
the plateaus & gullies:
a person like this
is like that.
Having rightly amassed
wealth attained through initiative,
he satisfies fully with food & drink
those fallen into
the homeless state."
~ Itivuttaka 75
^gassho^
I used to sponsor a Tibetan family in Nepal, but due to a drastic change in my 'fortunes' and circumstances, I have had to reluctantly stop this sponsorship. It took a lot of soul-searching and agonising before I made the decision - and fortunately, the Charity concerned guarantees to continue support in this event - but it was very hard for me. My personal situation became such that I had to make a choice. I feel it's all very well handing your cloak to a beggar, but it's an empty gesture if it then means you're freezing your butt off and you end up needing the help....
But there's always a Middle Way.... and the secret is to find it. We all own far more than is necessary.... heck, we're all sitting infront of technology that's cost thousands of dollars to enable us to be discussing this right now.... so we could all cut back and be altruistic - we just need to know how far to go and to what measure. As with everything, the result has to be constructive. And it's not selfish to think that way....
Consider for example, a mother who works herself into the ground looking after her family, working all the hours she can, working her fingers to the bone to keep heart & hearth together - only to find she collapses through nervous exhaustion, has to be hospitalised for her own good and recovery, so the husband has to take time off work, because he needs to take care of the kids, do the school run, visit mum in hospital..... she meant well, but she over-did it and it all backfired....
Weigh it up. Do what you can, but keep yourself well.
You see, I guess I still have some things to work out when it comes to helping my fellow man.
Like the fellow men I've helped in the past that have either lied to me to get me to give them money to buy something other than what they were asking for.
"Can you spare some change?"
"Sure!"
5 minutes later we both wind up at the same store. I'm buying a pop - he's buying alcohol.
Or the gentleman who has been standing at the freeway exit, that I take, for the last 4 months holding a sign that states, "Homeless. Hungry. Just passing through." But... he hasn't been passing through. In fact, the nearby gas station says that he's in all day long buying beer and cigarettes.
He's begging. I guess it's not up to me to decide what sort of "help" my fellow man needs - but, something within me makes it difficult for me to support this behavior. But, I have no problem donating to other local or national charities.
Oh well, something else to work on.
-bf
Is it compassionate to give money to a beggar when we know that they will spend it on legal (or illicit) pleasures/intoxicants/etc?
I have heard all the arguments for 'corporate', organised charity and against giving to beggars. I know that some, many or, even, all of them may be conning me. What I am unable to know is their need.
Is my money actually going to "help" someone? Or is it paying the salary or bonus of the person that is running this organization, which actually does help people? I mean "help" is reaching people, but certainly not as much as it could. I also realize that the people that run these organizations need to be able to survive and suppor their families so that they can continue doing the work that they do..
I also found - in my 20's and 30's - there are people that will work a system. People that have no problem taking the good of others and using it for their own gain. With no remorse, no hesitancy and no ethical issues about using the kindness of others and repaying it with nothing. It certainly changed my mode of thinking because I had never really known people like that previously in my life.
Or helping my fellow man because he said he needed money to fix his wife's car so she could get to work - and that he'd repay me for helping him - but never did. And, as I found out later, basically just a junkie.
I have a hard time helping many of my fellow 'men' because I've been screwed over by both men and women asking for help.
Guess that's one thing that I need to work though.
-bf
I pointed out that in all probability that they were right, but that I was going into a warm restaurant to eat a huge meal, drink plenty of alcohol and enjoy convivial company. He on the other hand ( I know he could have been a professional beggar ) was going to spend Christmas alone, cold, and feeling pretty low, so if he spent this money on alcohol and cigarettes.....big deal....seemed like a good idea getting a little tipsy and maybe for some precious time escaping the fact that he currenty wasn't enjoying the best of all times.
I felt better about myself....so who was the selfish one me or him?
We've got people that sit on the side of the road here with signs that say, "I ain't gonna lie... I want beer." And I don't have a problem with that because they're being honest with what they want to do - I've even slipped a guy like this a fiver and thought it was funny.
It's when "need" is portrayed in one fashion - that is untrue.
Like an incident I had.
I was going into work... guy in alley as I was coming out said, "Hey... can you spare some money. I'm really hungry."
I didn't have any cash on me, but I did say, "I'm sorry, I don't. But, I didn't eat my lunch today. It's still the fridge. Ham sandwich, chips, dessert!"
"Uhhh.... ummmm... I, uh, wanted a hot meal."
"Oh! We've got a microwave, I'll go heat the sandwich for you."
"Oh.....! Just F-off, asshole."
He said he wanted food. I offered him food. He wanted it hot. I offered it hot. He got pissed because he didn't want food.
I guess it's something I have to learn - just go ahead and help others. Even if they are lying to you, being deceitful, using your money for something else, maybe something they'll even overdose on and die - but I sure did help them....
-bf
So I did and still to this day support our local food bank ( Which hands out food to those in need). I have been known to go out into over picked fields on my time off and pick what was left by the farmers. That they would have simply plowed under. And to spend time Helping to hand out the food to those who need it. I am also apart of the Grow An Extra Row. In which Farmers and Home Gardeners grow extra Veggies and herbs for those who need it.
I guess what I am saying is to find an organization that you believ in and help out that way.
Let me first say that you should take the time to read this with the knowledge that I am not being critical of you in anyway. I am merely attempting to show you the other side of the coin:
Generosity is generosity. Giving out of kindness and compassion does you good. What is the first defilement that is always listed? Greed. How do you fight greed? Generosity.
All you can really do or worry about is how you act and how you treat people. That is why it seems that the Buddha never really mentioned how to help others, because he is working so hard on trying to get you to pay attention and fix your own problems.
Helping others naturally arises once you develop the Paramis (perfections):
Dana (generous action)
Sila (virtue)
Nekkhamma (renunciation)
Pañña (wisdom, discernment)
Viriya (energy, effort)
Khanti (patience)
Sacca (truthfulness)
Adhitthana (determination, resolution)
Metta (loving-kindness, goodwill)
Upekkha (equanimity)
If others decide to abuse the help which you have offered then it becomes something they themselves must deal with. You know, there are other ways to help besides giving to the homeless. There are foster children to house and love, Big Brother and Sisters, volunteer work (which is in any are) such as free AIDS clinics, homeless shelters, disaster relief, visiting elderly patients with no families, etc. The list is endless. If you want to help it's as easy as googleing "volunteer" and "your city".
Let us take a look at why you would say:
"I guess it's something I have to learn - just go ahead and help others. Even if they are lying to you, being deceitful, using your money for something else, maybe something they'll even overdose on and die - but I sure did help them...."
What causes such a reaction? The ego, the "identity".
It reinforces the idea that you are better than someone else. "They" will get drunk on the money "you" give them for food. It seems like you are correct in thinking that, but it separates you from that person. In truth, you have no idea why that person is where they are at in life. It is the ego that does this judgeing. Judgements are easy to pass, it is kindness and compassion that take real effort. Why? Because they go against the ego by doing things for sombody other than the ego.
I will tell you a story, all of it true. While I was still living in Michigan I happened to get a job at an autoparts painting factory. We had small assembly lines where one group loaded the parts, one guy painted them with a special coating, and another group unloaded them. Well, there was this manager who was a little off. He was kind of a jerk, he flirted with the female workers, and slacked off by smoking weed out back, but he was also fairly nice. He was always good to me at any rate. However, by his actions I judged him harshly, everyone did. He began inhaling that spray for computers - he'd get high and colapse sometimes. Everybody thought he was just the biggest piece of shit in the whole world. They turned him in (which was the correct thing to do) and talked about him behind his back. "What a piece of shit!" "What a jerk, I hate him, he's so stupid, he just uses drugs and gets high while "I" work soo hard." etc, etc. Everyone judged him including me. We delighted in talking about him like he was the lowest human we had ever known. Then one day while I was at work another manager who was his friend said, "Hey, I know I shouldn't say anything, but I have to tell you something." I asked what it was. He said, "You know he was a really good guy once. We were friends and I used to go over to his house all the time. He had a great wife and baby. Well a few years back he was drinking with another buddy of his and they ran out of beer. He went out, got into his car, started it, and then began to back out of the drive way....his baby had somehow gotten out of the house and he ran over him. The baby died right there. After that his wife left him and the guilt took it's toll on him."
I didn't see him the same anymore. What if it were me? What if I had killed my own child? Would I be able to cope and live a normal life, or would I get high and try to kill the pain that ate at my conscience every waking hour? You know what, to be honest, I doubt I would be able to cope...I got high and drunk for a lot less reasons than that. How could I fault him?
I changed my attitude about him after that. I realized that I can never know the real story behind why someone is the way they are. I have no right to judge them. Nobody is a bad person for judging by the way, because it seems to come naturally. Our defilements, these three characteristics of our personality, really make it hard to know when we are doing what we're doing out of greed, hatred, and delusion as opposed to generosity, loving-kindness, and wisdom. That is why it takes so much effort to change them around. It takes practice and patience.
You should never feel bad about how you act as long as you can learn from it. If you can see where you can improve then your negative action isn't so negative is it? It becomes your teacher. It shows you "Ah, here is where there is a need for improvement." That is mindfulness at work - To be aware of something. That way you can use the Paramis to counteract their negative counterparts.
And buddhafoot,
Don't judge yourself as well. Metta works both ways.
Jason
You make great points and I'm not saying your wrong. All valid points. All good food for thought.
I believe part of my problem with situations like this is because I've been lied to - and I don't like being lied to. I believe that is my ego speaking. Because, I should really care less if someone lies to me.
So, I agree with you 100% that I have "ego" problems that I know I need to deal with. And you are 100% correct about there being many, many different organizations that you can participate in and contribute to that will help many, many different people.
But, again, let's look at the situation of the person that wants money for intoxicants, illegal or legal drugs...
I believe "Right Intention" comes in here as well. Right Intention with the mind set of "enabling".
I don't know what Buddha would have thought about "enabling", but I don't think Buddha would have taught:
And them that wish to defile and pollute their body should be given the way and means to accomplish this. If they wish to intoxicate themselves to remove themselves from the world - while their parents, friends and family may suffer from their actions or lack of participation - who are you to look at this and judge.
What do you think about that, Elohim? You have a lot of great insights... I look forward to your thoughts on this type of a scenario. Really. I'm not being a smart-alec here - so don't take it that way. I'm just looking for a different view.
-bf
I agree with you that the Buddha would never teach that. You may, however, have overlooked the fact that I do not even say you should give money to anyone. Dana (generosity) is not all about money. Giving of ones time is just as benefitial, if not more so.
I also do not think that you have an ego problem, because your ego is no different than mine. I too have trouble with people lying to me. It's something we all have to deal with. I agree that if you know for a fact a person will use the money for drugs then it is better to not give them any at all. The main problem I see here is that you may begin to judge everyone by the actions of a few, and then assume most of them will do the same.
Class, status, ethnicity all play a part in judgement. For example, if you see one black man steal something and then you begin to equate that with every other black man you see, that is judgement without fairness. The same goes for when you see one homeless man using his donations for alcohol and then you begin to equate all homeless people as being alcoholics and deceptive. Each is an individual. Each should be looked at by their own merits and actions, not by someone else who resembles them.
It is a form of discrimination. We all do it. We all have this manifest in some way, shape, or form. The key thing for us as Buddhists (for lack of a better word) to do is to notice when this happens. We should not judge ourselves and say, "Oh I'm so egotistical" or "I'm such a loser for doing that." or "I'm a terrible Buddhist because I'm angry at that person." We should just try to be aware of "selfishness" or "negative attitude" or "anger".
I was not criticizing what you did, I was trying to help you be more aware of the internal workings of the Loki-mind. (Loki being the trickster god of fire in Nordic mythology. His trickiness knew no bounds and even turned mean-spirited in the end. His actions became so unruly that he was chained under a mountain. To me it reflects the ego perfectly.) The ego is what tells you you are right, they are wrong, I am this, they are that, I like..., I hate..., I, I, I, I. It tricks your natural awareness into thinking it is "you". The more awareness of things like judgements, feelings, and reactions you have the more insight into this 'entity' of ego you gain. It will contrast strikingly with the times you are aware of just consciousness - that essence of knowing with no judgments attached.
I believe that you have the Right Intentions, I just want to help point you in the Right Direction - the mind.
Well, that's what I think about it at any rate.
Jason
How to help other beings is, I think, very difficult to determine, and perhaps is impossible to determine. Do I help someone by doing what he/she asks me to do, or do I help more by not doing what he/she asks? Does he really need (beyond what I or he knows) to get drunk tonight? Does he really need (beyond what I or he knows) to trick me with a lie this afternoon? Does she really need me (beyond what I or she knows) to sit and listen to her complain about her neighbor, or does she really need me to not be there listening so she can't have the chance to speak such negative bile in the first place?
My "assistance" can be as much a cause of downfall as it can be a cause for benefit.
I think it is actually egotistically deluded to think "my" action--whatever it might be, either giving $10 or taking an evacuee into my home or building a sanctuary where birds and insects can hear sutras from stereo speakers--is really helping much, let alone is the key that will free or save or change the other being's life. To be honest, I have great difficulty even changing/improving myself--which is something I put a lot of time and energy into--so for me to think my $10 is going to do that much for someone else is rather dumb.
But, I don't mean to imply that we shouldn't help. Actually, while fully aware of and even guided by all the above doubt, I think we have to help. In fact, I think we have to try and orient every moment towards help. But, how?
Motivation.
The wisdom of Buddhism isn't that some actions are good and other actions are bad. Rather, its wisdom is that: "Motivation determines the fruits of our actions." So, to act in a way that is beneficial, my motivation must be pure. Thus, it isn't important for me to determine a policy of whether to give $10 to people who ask in a way that seems honest. Rather, it is important for me to work on purifying my motivation. Then, I can trust the actions that arise to be beneficial, whatever those actions are. If I give $10, it will result in beneficial fruit. If I don't give $10, it will result in beneficial fruit.
Bodhisattvas do their work with Skillful Means.
I didn't take what you were saying as being judgemental or that you were criticizing me. I place value on everyone's opinion. I also try to view other people's posts as being written in a very positive light - like I hope they view mine - so I don't think that when someone disagrees with me that they are criticizing me. It's just an opinion - and one I might be able to learn from.
-bf
p.s if i do get pissed off enough to put something here? (and that would be very stupid of me) you'll know, my friend... you'll know it
Alex my partner ( you know her as Federica...she may explain ) is much further down the road of seeing the good in everyone. I guess, that what I am trying to say is that, she like the members of this forum have shown me that there is light at the end of the tunnel and whilst being cynical with a small "c" is only natural, the Human race is still able to surprise me in it's resilience in never giving up in trying to improve themselves and the way in which they perceive and ultimately deal with others :wavey:
So BF.....trust me you are not alone in having difficulty in the way that you view this whole subject.
Right at the heart of the Noble Eighfold Path is the certainty of the buddha nature of each one of us.
When I was at college, a Dominican friend, the first mystic I had met, invited me to wlk from Blackfriars to Carfax (about 500 yards, I suppose) and to say (inwardly) to every person I encountered, "I see Christ in you". I managed half the distance on my first attempt. Since then, over 40 years of practice, I have improved. Another teacher, the therapist Virginia Satir, told us: "Human beings are infinitely educatable but very slow to learn."
You are not alone. Do you think that I always see the "goodness" in everyone? Ha! If you knew me you just might think that I was the grumpiest, most anti-social 27 years you have ever seen. But everyday I practice a little more, I study a little more, and I begin to understand a little more. It just takes time. First you must recognize there is a problem, such as discrimination. Then you must develop mindfulness to be aware of it when it arises (this being the hardest part for me - takes a lot of time!), and finally you cultivate its counterpart among the paramis (perfections). It can be a daunting task considering the immense complexity of the human mind, but after time it really begins to get easier.
When you can, eventually, effectively isolate sampajañña (Alertness; self-awareness; presence of mind; clear comprehension.) you will really begin to "notice" these processes of the mind. Pretty soon you will not even need to cultivate anything as it will arise on its own. Your mindfulness will in effect do most of the work for you. You just have to give it a chance to do what its nature is to do - be aware. Sati (mindfulness) is just remebering to simply be aware. It sound simple enough to do, but when the mind throws all of its garabage at it, like thoughts and ideas and judgements and commentaries and fantasies etc., mindfulness gets destroyed and awareness buried. In essence, what we confuse as "us" is merely these processes at work. When we clearly see this with constant awareness and clear comprehension we will cease to grasp at them as "me" or "mine". We become free of such things as discriminations because we simply do not mentally attach to them anymore.
Am I babbling again? Sorry I do that sometimes.
Jason
I've had things happen to me in my life - regarding certain people or circumstances - that can easily ignite me into a raging lunatic. And, I'm quite justified in reacting in this manner. What some people have done to me that I still find I have to deal with in my life - or - people that I have decided that I wish for them to be in my life (even with what they've done to me) - could cause me pain on a daily basis.
But!, lucky me! I've now got major issues I can work on!
oh. joy. mmmzzzzzzzrrriizzinfrazzzzzinDAMNIT!
-bf
Blimey, ain't that the truth....
I have heard it said that if all the personal problems in the world were piled up into one bigh heap, every individual would be quite contented to take back their own share and discretely slink away....
WE all consider our problems to be huge, insurmountable and sometimes just completely overwhelming, but I never cease to marvel at the tenacity of the Human Spirit....
What may seem trivial and resolvable to one being, may be completely desperate and final to another.... each person has different levels of resistance and "cope-ability".
This is why for me, it's important to never judge anybody's ordeal by comparing it to anything I'm having to go through, or have gone through. Simply because I survived a "bad trip", it doesn't mean to say that others would, in my place, have done the same thing.... I try to avoid thinking 'huh! You think you got problems, well, listen up pal, you ain't heard nuthin' yet...."
Another big mistake I used to make was to automatically respond to someone's tales of woe with 'I know just how you feel....'
That's Baloney.... I didn't. Never could and never would....
Sometimes we can look back and think 'what was I fussing so much about?' and at other times 'wow, I don't know where I found the strength to get through that - but I did!'
A lot of the time, the two could intermingle.
But it's all grist to the mill.... wouldn't life be dull if it was perfect?