Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

what happens after enlightenment

livehholivehho New
edited October 2010 in Buddhism Basics
- you reincarnate on a physical world over and over.

- after so many reincarnations you finally learn all your lessons, you graduate, you become enlightened. You are liberated from desire and suffering and you spend the rest of your life in bliss.

- after your physical vehicle dies you merge with the universal energy and God.

- from now on you are not bound to a karmic conditioning. No need to manifest in a physical form anymore.

But learning and evolving cannot stop here, can it?

Maybe this is what happens.. ?

- you keep learning and evolving in the spiritual plane and occasionally you 'choose' to reincarnate on earth or any other physical world system to help others in their journey. It will NOT be another "conditioned" existence; instead, you are free.

anybody with first hand experience here that can confirm this? by first hand I mean any information from a guide while obe or in deep meditation. Buddha or Jesus never mentioned what happens after we graduate. Or maybe we don't need to know that yet.
nirvana7stotram
«13

Comments

  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited July 2010
    Even people who believe in the three-lives interpretation of dependent origination don't believe in reincarnation. (But it's not clear to me what they believe in instead.)
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    fivebells wrote: »
    Even people who believe in the three-lives interpretation of dependent origination don't believe in reincarnation. (But it's not clear to me what they believe in instead.)

    you didn't answer my question
  • beingbeing Veteran
    edited July 2010
    I think both are far from truth and thinking of reincarnation in such a conceptual way will only lead you further away from understanding it.
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    being wrote: »
    I think both are far from truth and thinking of reincarnation in such a conceptual way will only lead you further away from understanding it.

    again.. you didn't answer my question either. thanks anyway.
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited July 2010
    Its because neither answer fits at all. You might as well be saying "Who was closer to being Buddha... Jesus or Muhammad?"

    "Uhhh..." I believe is the correct answer.

    With warmth,

    Matt
  • jinzangjinzang Veteran
    edited July 2010
    Well, I believe in reincarnation, rebirth or whatever you want to call it. Funny that I should have to say that on a Buddhist forum.

    Anyway, there are different levels enlightenment. Once you get to a certain level, your rebirth is no longer determined by your karma and you can consciously choose where to be reborn. Within limits, of course, you still need physical parents. That's where the Tibetan Buddhist concept of tulkus comes from.
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    jinzang wrote: »
    Well, I believe in reincarnation, rebirth or whatever you want to call it. Funny that I should have to say that on a Buddhist forum.

    Anyway, there are different levels enlightenment. Once you get to a certain level, your rebirth is no longer determined by your karma and you can consciously choose where to be reborn. Within limits, of course, you still need physical parents. That's where the Tibetan Buddhist concept of tulkus comes from.

    exactly... I mean this is a Buddhism forum and we still have to debate if reincarnation is real or not?

    I mean.. what?

    Look.. I know conceptualization is not the best way to address spirituality.. I knowww.. but I also know this is the best way to put in words as to what happens when you've learned all your lessons and you don't have to reincarnate anymore. I understand it can never be totally accurate but all I want to know is which one is closest to the truth.

    please... anyone?
  • edited July 2010
    I'll throw in my own 2 cents, but I'm not exactly a buddhist. I think when someone is enlightened, they're pretty much the same as before. They just notice what they've always been.

    As far as the reincarnation thing, I think when an enlightened person dies, they die like everyone else. Their existence ends. You can't have existence without non-existence. If a mug of coffee drops and breaks, whats left on the floor is still coffee, but it definitely isn't 'existing' in the same form is was when it was still in the cup.

    Short version: I have no idea
  • edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    exactly... I mean this is a Buddhism forum and we still have to debate if reincarnation is real or not?

    It's a forum for beginners.

    "Buddhism for Beginners No question is too basic here!"
  • edited July 2010
    "I think when someone is enlightened, they're pretty much the same as before. They just notice what they've always been."

    Interesting take, Marmalde!

    To answer the original question,

    After enlightenment, You become enlightened!
  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited July 2010
    when you are enlightened the present life goes on until the last day of the present life
  • RenGalskapRenGalskap Veteran
    edited July 2010
    Hi livehho, I'm afraid most Buddhists are going to view your question as the equivalent of "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin." If you want to explain what concerns are motivating you to ask the question, we might be able to help you out.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    please let me know which one do you think is closer to the truth
    Niether, it is theosophical fantasy.
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    upekka wrote: »
    when you are enlightened the present life goes on until the last day of the present life

    there is no doubt about that.. that's not what I asked either. but thanks
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    RenGalskap wrote: »
    Hi livehho, I'm afraid most Buddhists are going to view your question as the equivalent of "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin." If you want to explain what concerns are motivating you to ask the question, we might be able to help you out.

    concerns? ..

    Knowing the Truth... what other motivation could there ever be
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    Richard H wrote: »
    Niether, it is theosophical fantasy.

    fantasy? ok, I am seriously thinking I got into the wrong forum
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    fantasy? ok, I am seriously thinking I got into the wrong forum
    This just sounds more like the kind of thing I read in theosophy, like the spiritualism Annie Besant, rather that anything taught by any Buddhist teachers.


    But...You can probably find a sutra or commentary somewhere that talks about this kind of senario.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    exactly... I mean this is a Buddhism forum and we still have to debate if reincarnation is real or not?
    Hahaha, thirty percent of discussion here is precisely debate on that topic.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 2010
    I think that only your wisdom and compassion are real. Your physical body is a magician's conjuration brought together by causes and conditions like looking into a bowl of water and seeing the moon. There must be a being/eye, there must be a water to reflect, and there must be a moon all in the right relationship.

    The wisdom and compassion are the unconditioned buddha nature. The space of awareness. The vajra formed by the gentle supporting solid "masculine" compassion and the intelligent "feminine" prajna wisdom that can give life and death that cuts through the clouds.

    The wisdom and compassion of a buddha manifesting in samsara are the same wisdom and compassion. Which are uncovered. Without begininning middle or end.

    The body is just a dream. It melts and blends with all the other spaces. (as the coffee cup becomes not a coffee cup).
  • edited July 2010
    After Enlightenment, i feel as though i will be able to see the true nature of everything around me, and not get caught up in life's petty situations.

    This true outlook on life should allow me to immensely reduce suffering. maybe even negate it!
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited July 2010
    I think we just go *poof* :) Or maybe we just see the true nature of the universe and all that. I dunno..

    Mtns
  • edited July 2010
    I just learn a word called wallow. Probably a wallow in the mud, that manifesting its wisdom and compassion to liberate all "muddy" living beings in accordance with causes and conditions :D
  • edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    - when you are enlightened you do not have to reincarnate in the physical plane anymore.

    According to the teaching, becoming and rebirth stop altogether upon enlightenment. So, not only does reincarnation end, but there isn't even nonphysical becoming in the other spheres of existence; not in the fine-material, nor in the immaterial sphere. Rebirth in the latter spheres can occur before full enlightenment, however. At least this is what the suttas say.

    Personally, I can only speculate. I think that progressive rebirth in different physical world systems may be possible, but in the short-term, say several hundred thousand years or so, karmic conditioning is likely to bind one to a single world. As I said... just speculation.

    Cheers, Thomas
  • edited July 2010
    Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.
  • skullchinskullchin Veteran
    edited July 2010
    After Enlightenment, i feel as though i will be able to see the true nature of everything around me, and not get caught up in life's petty situations.

    After Enlightenment, I feel as though I will have no thoughts. Which will of course be wonderful. I think.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    edited July 2010
    fivebells wrote: »
    Even people who believe in the three-lives interpretation of dependent origination don't believe in reincarnation. (But it's not clear to me what they believe in instead.)

    I soooooo want to know what you're talking about. Sincerely... I'm always trying to learn, mabye you could help me out with a PM if you don't wanna take this thead off topic.
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    edited July 2010
    How about after enlightenment you spend the rest of your life, 50 years in the Buddha's case, teaching others and being at peace with your emptiness and impermanence?
  • beingbeing Veteran
    edited July 2010
    skullchin wrote: »
    After Enlightenment, I feel as though I will have no thoughts. Which will of course be wonderful. I think.
    You can still have thoughts, but you won't be identifying yourself with them & they won't be controlling you anymore.
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited July 2010
    I will answer that or at least try to if you tell me what the beginning and the end of the universe is.
  • edited July 2010
    Hmmm... After enlightenment, do you still continue to learn and evolve, I wonder. I just believe that after enlightenment, you are out of samsara all together. Anyway, where did you find these two, erm, answers? I'm interested in viewing the links.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited July 2010
    shanyin wrote: »
    I soooooo want to know what you're talking about. Sincerely... I'm always trying to learn, mabye you could help me out with a PM if you don't wanna take this thead off topic.

    Three-lives versus this-life. (They are not mutually exclusive, of course.)
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited July 2010
    Enlightenment is liberation from desire and suffering. If you're asking what happens to an enlightened being when they die, well we don't know because the Buddha didn't say.:)

    P
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited July 2010
    After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.

    But really enjoying it.;)

    P
  • edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    please let me know which one do you think is closer to the truth:

    - when you are enlightened you do not have to reincarnate in the physical plane anymore. However, you keep learning and evolving in the spiritual plane. You do not reincarnate anymore in the earth unless you choose to, in order to help others.

    - when you are enlightened you do not have to reincarnate on Earth anymore. However, you keep learning and evolving by reincarnating in another place in the universe as a evolved race.

    A "fully" enlightened being, say an Arahant, will not be reborn in samsara. Such being's death is identified as Parinibbana which simply means "fully passed away" or "fully blown out", suggesting that an Arahant has no re-existence after death. Logically nothing else will come after it - because if something does come after it, it will then be yet another "conditioned" existence. What happens to a Buddha or an Arahant after death (Parinibbana)? This falls under the category of "unanswered questions".

    As always, take everything I say with caution! :)
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    please let me know which one do you think is closer to the truth:

    - when you are enlightened you do not have to reincarnate in the physical plane anymore. However, you keep learning and evolving in the spiritual plane. You do not reincarnate anymore in the earth unless you choose to, in order to help others.

    - when you are enlightened you do not have to reincarnate on Earth anymore. However, you keep learning and evolving by reincarnating in another place in the universe as a evolved race.

    They are both equally far from the truth, about (100,000 x 1,000,000,000) miles each.
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    I think that only your wisdom and compassion are real. Your physical body is a magician's conjuration brought together by causes and conditions like looking into a bowl of water and seeing the moon. There must be a being/eye, there must be a water to reflect, and there must be a moon all in the right relationship.

    The wisdom and compassion are the unconditioned buddha nature. The space of awareness. The vajra formed by the gentle supporting solid "masculine" compassion and the intelligent "feminine" prajna wisdom that can give life and death that cuts through the clouds.

    The wisdom and compassion of a buddha manifesting in samsara are the same wisdom and compassion. Which are uncovered. Without begininning middle or end.

    The body is just a dream. It melts and blends with all the other spaces. (as the coffee cup becomes not a coffee cup).

    .............
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    According to the teaching, becoming and rebirth stop altogether upon enlightenment. So, not only does reincarnation end, but there isn't even nonphysical becoming in the other spheres of existence; not in the fine-material, nor in the immaterial sphere. Rebirth in the latter spheres can occur before full enlightenment, however. At least this is what the suttas say.

    Personally, I can only speculate. I think that progressive rebirth in different physical world systems may be possible, but in the short-term, say several hundred thousand years or so, karmic conditioning is likely to bind one to a single world. As I said... just speculation.

    Cheers, Thomas

    most honest comment by far
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    Deshy wrote: »
    I will answer that or at least try to if you tell me what the beginning and the end of the universe is.

    unimportant whatsoever. how could that knowledge would ever help you in your spiritual path? anyway here is the answer:

    there is no beginning, there is no end, there is only change
  • JetsFan366JetsFan366 Explorer
    edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    next time you copy paste something into this thread at least make sure it touches the topic. but thanks for the poetry.

    You're never going to have to be worried about being enlightened if you continue to be sarcastic to people that are just trying to be helpful.

    I'm never going to have to be worried about being enlightened if I keep trying to be clever and correcting others.
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    twaitsfan wrote: »
    You're never going to have to be worried about being enlightened if you continue to be sarcastic to people that are just trying to be helpful.

    I'm never going to have to be worried about being enlightened if I keep trying to be clever and correcting others.

    you are right my brother.. comment deleted
  • beingbeing Veteran
    edited July 2010
    twaitsfan wrote: »
    I'm never going to have to be worried about being enlightened if I keep trying to be clever and correcting others.
    You could at least have convinced yourself, that you are just trying to be helpful. :D
  • JetsFan366JetsFan366 Explorer
    edited July 2010
    being wrote: »
    You could at least have convinced yourself, that you are just trying to be helpful. :D

    You're right - usually I'm better at that! :)
  • JetsFan366JetsFan366 Explorer
    edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    you are right my brother.. comment deleted
    Buddhism rules! :)
  • livehholivehho New
    edited July 2010
    see first post
  • beingbeing Veteran
    edited July 2010
    This is a theory I have come up with, but I won't claim it's validity.

    First we have to consider all life to be one. Everything, that exists to be one.
    No individual being (being a part of the oneness, still) is born enlightened, so when 'your' physical existence in this world ends, 'you' can't be born again, cause 'you' already reached enlightenment.
  • edited July 2010
    The fourth option sounds most appealing, even though it encompasses the other three generally.

    I think of enlightenment as a journey and not as a goal. it's like something that's not there but which I imagine is.

    Hope that helps :)
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    unimportant whatsoever. how could that knowledge would ever help you in your spiritual path?

    yesssssss, exactly!.... put it together.... .... ...... ??? do you get it???

    okay, enough jokes :D

    i am curious, why are you asking and what do you expect to get out of it? i personally believe exactly what you said in your first post, "maybe we don't need to know that yet."

    and besides...

    "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
    -The Buddha
  • edited July 2010
    Enlightenment is not removal from the river of existence, it is harmony with the river of existence. If you think there is a "you", separate from the river, to be removed, you are not Enlightened.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited July 2010
    The answer can be found in the Sutras, the Heart Sutra being one of them.
    Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
    when practicing deeply the Prajna Paramita
    perceives that all five skandhas are empty
    and is saved from all suffering and distress.

    Shariputra,
    all dharmas are marked with emptiness;
    they do not appear or disappear,
    are not tainted or pure,
    do not increase or decrease.
    Therefore, in emptiness no form, no feelings,
    perceptions, impulses, consciousness.
    No eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind;
    no color, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch,
    no object of mind;
    no realm of eyes
    and so forth until no realm of mind consciousness.

    No ignorance and also no extinction of it,
    and so forth until no old age and death
    and also no extinction of them.
    No suffering, no origination,
    no stopping, no path, no cognition,
    also no attainment with nothing to attain.

    The Bodhisattva depends on Prajna Paramita
    and the mind is no hindrance;
    without any hindrance no fears exist.
    Far apart from every perverted view one dwells in Nirvana.
    How can learning and evolving continue when there is no ignorance and no extinction of it? In order for learning to take place, there must be something to learn first yes? But if there is no ignorance, what is there that is left to learn?

    How can learning and evolving continue when there is no form, no feelings, no perceptions, no impulses, and no consciousness? How can learning and evolving continue when there is no you, no spiritual planes, no reincarnation, no earth, no physical world systems, no others, no journey, no conditioning, no existence and no freedom?
    Diamond Sutra

    Chapter 29.

    The Buddha said:
    "Subhuti, if any person were to say that the Buddha is now coming or going, or sitting up or lying down, they would not have understood the principle I have been teaching. Why? Because while the expression 'Buddha' means 'he who has thus come, thus gone,' the true Buddha is never coming from anywhere or going anywhere. The name 'Buddha' is merely an expression, a figure of speech."
    How can one enter or exit a spiritual plane or be reincarnated when a true Buddha (Enlightened being) is never coming from anywhere or going anywhere?
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited July 2010
    livehho wrote: »
    unimportant whatsoever. how could that knowledge would ever help you in your spiritual path? anyway here is the answer:

    there is no beginning, there is no end, there is only change

    So are your questions. Unimportant whatsoever. Reincarnation/rebirth is not relevant to the realization of not-self.

    Enlightenment is here and now Dhamma.

    After enlightenment you live the rest of your life without mental suffering caused due to clinging and attachment to self and things belonging to self. And then you die. Why is the question "where will I go next" be important to a person who has abolished all views on self?
    Therefore, there being no one born here, there is no one who dies and is reborn. So, the whole Question of rebirth is utterly foolish and nothing to do with Buddhism at all

    Bhikku Buddhadasa
Sign In or Register to comment.