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Control
There is much said about controlling one's mind/thoughts/emotions but what is it that we are supposed to control?
i don't drink, not for any spiritual or health reasons but becuase i don't like losing control - but is there ever a point at which this desire to keep control becomes... well, a desire, another attachment.
To quote a couple of films:
is control just an illusion?
is it only after we lose everything that we are free to do anything?
i don't drink, not for any spiritual or health reasons but becuase i don't like losing control - but is there ever a point at which this desire to keep control becomes... well, a desire, another attachment.
To quote a couple of films:
is control just an illusion?
is it only after we lose everything that we are free to do anything?
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Comments
I know people that used to smoke and drink. They don't anymore - in fact, they're really healthy. Run everyday to keep in shape, do marathons, watch what they eat, watch what other people eat, make comments about people's poor physical appearance - in a way that makes it sound like they're concerned for this other persons well-being - but to me, it just sounds odd. Especially when just a couple of years ago, this person was in the same exact state.
So, is all this working out and watching what you eat something wonderful? Not if it becomes something by which you judge other people - or have some OCD mentality that is driving you from one obsession or abuse to the next.
I drink. I had a couple of drinks last night. Saw some friends had a few laughs and some good conversation. That was it. Wasn't drunk. Didn't even have a buzz. Which is fine with me. I had a tasty dinner before hand - because I don't like feeling ill. I don't like hangovers. Right or wrong, I did it. Came home, had a nice evening, went to bed and slept like a baby.
I know people that don't drink anymore and they wear it like a badge of honor. "I don't drink!" or "I don't smoke!" Why is this so different from anything else in the minutes of your day to day life? Does this define you as a person that you no longer drink or smoke? Does it make you feel superior to those that do?
I would say that "that" is a form of attachment. Why is it not as important to you to say "I had a bowl of Cheerios today for breakfast! Whaddya think about THAT!?!?!"
-bf
I learnt that, 'Whenever a person manifests a "controlling" personality (dominating, angry, stubborn, objectionable - extreme behaviours) it means there is an aspect within themselves that they are unable to control, or do not recognise as needing control.'
How long ago did you finally learn that? How's that been working for ya?
-bf
I still don't think I learned that lesson.
In fact, I didn't know it was in the lesson book
-bf
twobitbob,
At the beginning we are controlling our kamma.
We are trying to control our wholesome and unwholesome actions of body, speech, and mind which condition our lives. Those same actions carry out into the world as well, how we act towards people, our choices in what's right and wrong, whether we help or harm others, etc.
In Buddhist thougt, every volitional action due to our defilements conditions further existence in samsara. This is our dukkha, our suffering, unhappiness, unsatisfactoriness, etc. The Buddha taught us to first control our actions by making them skillful instead of unskillful, wholesome instead of unwholesome. Then we are given ways to cease the production of new kamma, freeing us from further conditions and eradicating dukkha from our lives forever. We eventually realize the 'Unconditioned', no more fetters, attachments, or mental afflictions of any sort...
At the end, there is nothing left to control.
Jason
I've had training.... it was pointed out to me, I didn't come up with this myself...... but over time, I have seen it demonstrated, and I have found it to be true....
The way I recognised it in myself, was to witness it first in other people. Not in a judgemental, critical way, but as pure observation, just to notice the truth of it. And the more Controlling a person is, the bigger the mess they're unable to sort out inside.
It's weird, but quite educational.....
Reminds me of a lyric from a Canadian rock band called The Odds:
"I never met a manipulator who wasn't paranoid / They see in themselves what in others they should avoid"
Control is an illusion and practice is not about control.
Mike
The word covers a multitude of Sins - !
We need to turn our attention away from the kind of control that seeks to empower the transitory illusionary aspects, and turn it instead into practising to Master our understanding and acceptance of that which we seek.
As Mike says, it's all the inner stuff we need to engage with - that's Good. All the Outer stuff we should just release....
Does the distinction we're trying to convey make sense, twobitbob....?
Palzang
Just as a storm cannot prevail against a rocky mountain, so Mara can never overpower the man who lives meditating on the impurities, who is controlled in his senses, moderate in eating, and filled with faith and earnest effort.
- Yamakavagga: Dhp I.7-8
Irrigators regulate the rivers; fletchers straighten the arrow shaft; carpenters shape the wood; the wise control themselves.
- Panditavagga: Dhp VI.80
Let a man guard himself against irritability in bodily action; let him be controlled in deed. Abandoning bodily misconduct, let him practice good conduct in deed.
Let a man guard himself against irritability in speech; let him be controlled in speech. Abandoning verbal misconduct, let him practice good conduct in speech.
Let a man guard himself against irritability in thought; let him be controlled in mind. Abandoning mental misconduct, let him practice good conduct in thought.
The wise are controlled in bodily action, controlled in speech and controlled in thought. They are truly well-controlled.
- Kodhavagga: Dhp XVII.232-34
Let a man be watchful of speech, well controlled in mind, and not commit evil in bodily action. Let him purify these three courses of action, and win the path made known by the Great Sage.
- Maggavagga: Dhp XX.281
Good is restraint over the eye; good is restraint over the ear; good is restraint over the nose; good is restraint over the tongue.
Good is restraint in the body; good is restraint in speech; good is restraint in thought. Restraint everywhere is good. The monk restrained in every way is freed from all suffering.
He who has control over his hands, feet and tongue; who is fully controlled, delights in inward development, is absorbed in meditation, keeps to himself and is contented — him do people call a monk.
That monk who has control over his tongue, is moderate in speech, unassuming and who explains the Teaching in both letter and spirit — whatever he says is pleasing.
- Bhikkhuvagga: Dhp XXV.360-63
Jason
I learnt this many years ago in my Sales development, however it is as relevant to everyday life and the learning of any new Skill, being in control is vital!!.........
The Stages of Skill Development
In Bringing Peace into the Room: How the Personal Qualities of the Mediator Impact the Process of Conflict Resolution (D. Bowling & D. Hoffman eds. 2003), Peter Adler, a well-known mediator, describes the four stages of skill development: (1) unconscious incompetence, (2) conscious incompetence, (3) conscious competence, and (4) unconscious competence.
He illustrates these stages by following the efforts of a person who is learning to surf. The first day, after much effort, the new surfer may be half-standing, half-stooping on the board fighting each swell of the water. The surfer is “dumb and happy” and perhaps a little sunburned. He is ignorant of the deeper skill level required to become a master surfer. He has found the unconscious incompetence stage of skill development. If he sticks with the task, he will quickly move to the consciously incompetent stage. At this stage, he is now aware of the skills he lacks, but resolved to learn more. He knows what he doesn’t know. He will eventually move, with practice, to the consciously competent stage of skill development. At the third stage of the cycle, the surfer can skillfully catch a wave, knows a lot about the equipment, and has a good time each day on the beach. But he returns home exhausted by his efforts. He then crosses an invisible frontier in which surfing gets easier. He takes on a bigger wave at exactly the right moment on a beach he knows as well as his the curves of his face. He comes off the wave energized and exhilarated, not exhausted. He has found the fourth level of competency – unconscious competency.
The Learning Cycle Begins Anew
But here’s the good and the bad news. No sooner has he reached the fourth level of competence, he throws himself back to the beginning of the cycle. He decides to learn to surf the giant waves of Hawaii. His first day on the beach leaves him battered. The waves win that day. But because he is now consciously incompetent, he will find the mentors he needs to teach him the mastery of these powerful waves.
Mediators cover this same skill development cycle. The first stage comes after a person completes what I call the “baby” mediation training program -- often a 16-hour program that offers the person the very basic techniques of interest-based bargaining, the structure of the classical mediation, some ethics, and some experience in simulated mediations. The new “qualified” mediator rushes home to tell his or her spouse all about this eye-opening experience that was also such fun. The mediator then moves to conscious incompetency the first time he or she mediates a case. The basic training did not cover the topics that now seem to control the dynamics of the conflict – the parties’ psychological and emotional needs. The mediator can work all the techniques he learned in the training program, but he still feels utterly lost and out of control – and he is. He must go home to his spouse to explain that he learned today what he did not know. A mediator with this level of self-awareness begins a self-directed process of learning. He may attend a conference, participate in an advanced training workshop, subscribe to an ADR journal, or read books on mediation. She may volunteer at a community mediation center to get more hands-on experience. After many months of dedicated learning, the mediator may move to the next level of competence. Many mediators stay at this stage -- consciously competent -- for years.
Exactly.
At the end of the Path there is 'nothing' to control, but at the beginning it is definitely something which we should practice. Why? Because of the defilements. They influence every single action of body, speech, and mind (whether we realize it or not). When you practice 'control', or restraint as the Buddha often uses, you are protecting yourself, as well as others. While I agree that it is like an illusion once you acquire the discernment to peel away at the outer layers of experience, I also believe it is unwise to skip over this initial learning stage of self-control. I just felt the need to point that out. The reason is simply that I feel it is unskillful to tell beginners to Buddhism that there is nothing they need to control, when in fact the Buddha does advise we should control our actions so that they produce the least amount of harm.
Whether I am right or wrong in my 'understanding', I simple feel it is good advice.
Jason
If control or, as you say, 'restraint' were not possible, there would not be lists of behavioural precepts!
In Buddhism the precepts, whilst a vital part of practice, along with meditation and insight, are not commandments. The word 'control' tends to give a wrong impression and is often not the best translation of the original Sanskrit and Pali terms. The precepts are not commandments but guidelines for training, undertaken in order for students to gain experential understanding of what it means to live as a Buddha. This is one reason why the precepts are often given twice in some traditions - first when formally becoming a Buddhist and taking refuge, and then again towards the end of formal training, when they are taken again as koans - pointing to the experience of living as a Buddha.
“ Who, Subhuti, will grasp this perfect wisdom as here explained?”
Thereupon the Venerable Ananda said: “Those who cannot fall back will grasp it, or persons who have reached sound views…..”
“No one,” said Subhuti, “will grasp this perfect wisdom as here explained. For nothing at all has been indicated, lit up, or communicated. So there will be no one who can grasp it.”- from The Perfection of Wisdom in Eight Thousand Lines
This concept is as important in beginning aspects of one’s practice as it is at any conceived time. In my perception the Buddha-Dharma should not be front loaded as a sequential method to becoming or being anything. The method and practice are helpful, but they are not truth. By our own definition control- To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct. To adjust to a requirement; regulate: controlled trading on the stock market; controls the flow of water. To hold in restraint; check: struggled to control my temper. To reduce or prevent the spread of: control insects; controlled the fire by dousing it with water. The Two Truths that the Buddha taught are useful and liberating concepts that help us see with the realization that the idea of control (as well as a myriad of other things) is not required or needed for waking up.
Mike
I think, also, that a distinction must be drawn between Buddhism and whatever it is that is achieved/realised. It is from the perspective of the latter that control's illusory nature becomes apparent.
Mike
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Exactly.
i think you're all saying there should be control in ones practice but you shouldn't let it control you?
mike