Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Is NewBuddhist a Sangha?

MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
edited December 2010 in Sanghas
Just wondering. I would think so.

"Sangha (Pali: सन्घ ; Sanskrit: संघ ; Wylie: 'dus sde) is a word in Pali or Sanskrit that can be translated roughly as "association" or "assembly," "company" or "community" with common goal, vision or purpose."

So... is that not we are?

Comments

  • Not entirely. A Sangha should have teachers; we are all students, to some degree. We're more "Dharma Friends" than a true Sangha.
  • Heh, strictly speaking sangha refers to monks, nuns, and teachers.

    But I'd consider everyone here a sangha :)
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    It's nice to have internet friends. But the best friends are those with whom we go breath to breath.
  • This isn't a Sangha, this is just another internet forum that allows people debate their own personal views.

    A decent Sangha wouldn't allow this.
  • Ch'an_noob, your avatar fits your demeanor completely!
  • Bodhidharma ain't nothang ta @#%$ wid!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    This is a Sangha. Maybe not in the conventional sense, but I have a feeling that if the Buddha came on here, he'd be happy with our community.
    Convention has, after all, moved on a little from when the Buddha walked the earth. If Convention has changed, then I see no reason why we should not consider ourselves every bit as much a Sangha as one of a more conventional type....
    Ch'an_noob, not everybody has the luxury or convenience of a real Sangha nearby. This will have to suffice for many, and as such, is every bit as embracing.
  • There were probably no sangas in the buddhas time, and I think it means more "community in dharma" rather than monastery.
  • This is like meditation. Am I doing it wrong? UUU I have the best sangha! Next day, my sangha is just a bunch of nuts! Next day my sangha I have true friends. Next....yada yada.

    Just forget all that. For me its a sangha. But I don't have any proof.
  • sangha includes non-monk followers of the path.

    ...btw, { } am an urban buddhist monk (one that can marry and have long hair; but that is now completely vegetarian).
  • Sangha, it's such a confusing term for a lot of people.

    Historically speaking sangha refers to the monks, nuns, and gurus. (Especially all disciples under the same guru) "My brothers and sisters have taken refuge and teachings from (lama) therefore, we are a sangha."

    But, I affectionately refer to anyone that practices the dharma to be a part of the world sangha.

    Sangha... It has come to simply mean a group of people that follow the dharma, debate, converse, and compare notes/thoughts in regards to the dharma. Therefore, yes... this forum is a sangha. We are all connected by the same desire to become enlightened and are helping each other to that goal.

    Federica put it well: "not everybody has the luxury or convenience of a real Sangha nearby. This will have to suffice for many, and as such, is every bit as embracing."
  • Not sure if this forum is a Sangha. But it's refreshing to be in a forum with minimal eye-rolling or up your a@@ smileys used. ;)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    :rolleyes:



    :D
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Regarding the OP's definition of a sangha as a community with a "common goal, vision or purpose:"

    I don't think NewBuddhist qualifies, primarily because of all the chit-chattering all the time. I don't believe sanghas are composed of wordy persons, but of worthy persons. But that is just my opinion. Although in large part I do admire what @Rmurray1985 says above, I think we tend to go our own separate ways too much.

    I could say more on this subject but consider it wise not to.

  • you have pretty high standards,nirvana. please explain what is a "worthy person"
    i'm quessing you must be a worthy person to know what qualifies one to be a member of a sangha.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited December 2010
    I'd say that worthy persons try to elevate dignity over all else. Whereas merely clever, wordy people tend to be flies in any ointment. I just don't get it when people say there can be real community on any highway. Seems impossible to me and rather incongruent for this sort of harmony to be evolving in such a chaotic space.

    On worthiness, what does it mean to acknowledge the dignity of another person?

    Primarily it means to make people feel special and important. This is what gentlemen and ladies strive always to do.

    I said above that there's plenty more on matters such as these that I could say but thought it wise not to. So please let me summarize (for my last time) here:

    In a real sangha deference is given to the elders and to other people who show by the inflections of their words and their deeds that they are part of a committed community. On the internet, on the other hand, reality cannot afford that there should be anything like this kind of genuine unhindered communication or hands-on community.

    That said, it would nonetheless be nice if our folks would try a bit harder to think of NewBuddhist as a sangha-by-extension, and behave as endearing members. In other words, not (over-)reacting to perceived insults or insisting on one's point of view —or being "in-your-face" so much... I guess another way to say that is just a little bit more humility sometimes.

    When people bring up points in good faith they should neither expect to be attacked for them, nor should they expect universal sympathy, either.

    Belonging to a sangha does not entail getting an automatic pat on your back for everything you say and do. However, online we tend to crave this sort of thing too much.
  • am i spelling gobbledygook correctly?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I think it dangerous territory to include 'we' in posts, as if designating ourselves spokesperson for many.
    personal opinion is one thing.
    It neither makes it general, nor agreeable to all....


  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    I think so.
  • am i spelling gobbledygook correctly?
    You nailed it, armando! Good job! :)
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    My only reply to people I despise is to let 'em know it.
    Amen.
  • amen? nirvana is pronounced nirvåna btw...

    samgha : http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?script=HK&tinput=samgha&country_ID=&trans=Translate&direction=AU

    interesting, yasodhara was the second buddha of samyak buddha shayamuni's era.

    note : requirement of no kama råga!
  • I consider this a sangha. After all we all practice the dharma and are sharing it. ;)
  • No. Sangha refers to Aryasangha - the monastic community only. It's an important point.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Not here, it isn't.
    Many of us consider this our sangha, regardless of strict pedantic, semantic reference.
    I care little about the strict interpretation of some terms. If people want to call this a sangha, if they feel like coming here and using this place as their sangha, and they find comfort, community, solace, companionship, contentment, learning, humour, gentility, discussion, debate, and a place to vent and release - then as far as I'm concerned, it's a sangha.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    sangha includes non-monk followers of the path.

    ...btw, { } am an urban buddhist monk (one that can marry and have long hair; but that is now completely vegetarian).
    I thought all hair was vegetarian....

  • edited January 2011
    Federica you're entitled to your opinion. I was talking about 'Sangha' within the meaning of Buddhism not Sangha within your meaning (which is 'a community of people on an internet forum who are interested in Buddhism'). The Sangha in Buddhism has a very specific limitation: it is only the community of ordained monks. The rules for the Sangha are covered in the Vinaya section of the Canon. Obviously the Vinaya isn't a part of the forum rules. But the Vinaya has authority.
    Clearly this internet forum is a group of people and a community, and most of us are influenced by Buddhism. However it wouldn't be correct to say this is a 'Buddhist Sangha' - there are rules for establishing a Sangha. 9 ordained monks with a proven lineage can do it. I am not a member of the Aryasangha myself, but for the moment simply take and use the parts of Buddhist philo I find useful. The Sangha is sacred, sacrosanct.. Monks takes refuge in 3 jewels including the Sangha, not some guy calling himself 'Ncryptx' and a web developer skilled in ASP or PHP.
  • VincenziVincenzi Veteran
    edited January 2011
    No. Sangha refers to Aryasangha - the monastic community only. It's an important point.
    it is samgha... there's no syllable+n "ligatures" in sanskrit.

    and yes, I know it is aryasamgha; however the semantic/conceptual context can not be denied.
  • Federica you're entitled to your opinion. I was talking about 'Sangha' within the meaning of Buddhism not Sangha within your meaning (which is 'a community of people on an internet forum who are interested in Buddhism'). The Sangha in Buddhism has a very specific limitation: it is only the community of ordained monks. The rules for the Sangha are covered in the Vinaya section of the Canon. Obviously the Vinaya isn't a part of the forum rules. But the Vinaya has authority.
    Clearly this internet forum is a group of people and a community, and most of us are influenced by Buddhism. However it wouldn't be correct to say this is a 'Buddhist Sangha' - there are rules for establishing a Sangha. 9 ordained monks with a proven lineage can do it. I am not a member of the Aryasangha myself, but for the moment simply take and use the parts of Buddhist philo I find useful. The Sangha is sacred, sacrosanct.. Monks takes refuge in 3 jewels including the Sangha, not some guy calling himself 'Ncryptx' and a web developer skilled in ASP or PHP.
    what if the samgha is corrupted OR not accesible?

    when saying "am an urban buddhist monk"... 'am being serious. // ...egoless writting sounds better in other languages
  • edited January 2011
    Actually the original intent was "4 or more monks or nuns". I'll bet you that 4 or more monks or nuns have visited this site.
  • edited January 2011
    Actually the original intent was "4 or more novice monks or nuns". I'll bet you that 4 or more novice monks or nuns have visited this site.
    Sure, you're right the quorum is 4. 9 is only in the case of an irreconcilable dispute between members of the Sangha, if I recall correctly. 4 novice monks or nuns are, I agree, likely to have 'visited' this site although, as this site is merely data and does not have a spatial-temporal existence, perhaps not. However they are likely to have also visited many other places in common, without establishing a Sangha in any of them. For example, perhaps they visited the same village or hamlet or house, for alms. If the website is not a place that can be visited, haunted or inhabited in the same sense as a community centre, no Sangha can be established there.
    Let's just suppose for a moment that the website can be a Sangha in the sense of coming under the jurisdiction of the Vinaya. How often are there disagreements on internet fora? Nobody would dare to argue for fear of causing a major sin and damning themselves to terrible tortures in the Buddhist hells. After all causing a rift in the Sangha is almost as serious as trying to kill the Buddha.
  • edited January 2011
    The Qualities of the Arya Sangha
    The aryas may be of the listener (nyan-thos, Skt. shravaka), self-evolver (rang-rgyal, Skt. pratyekabuddha), or bodhisattva (byang-chub sems-dpa’) class.

    I mean, if we are going to rely on a strict definition of what does and does not make a "sangha" a sangha, then how do you propose to determine whether or not the people that frequent this board are pratyekabuddhas or bodhisattvas? It's made quite clear in the literature that a bodhisattva need not be a monk. Nor could a pratyekabuddha be a monk, as they rely only on themselves.

    Also, note the differences made there between "deepest", "apparent", and "nominal" sanghas.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Nest. The Hornet's. Kicked. Girl. Who. The. The.

    :D
  • Is NewBuddhist a Sangha? Is the Facebook/YouTube/MySpace of the Buddhist virtual world a Sangha? Never. Not in the traditional sense. In the not-so-traditional sense.....maybe - especially if mod Fede says so.......
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    I recently found some Buddhists in my city, and we get together and meditate and chant mantras. The lady who started it calls it a Sangha.

    It's just a word.

  • It's just a word.
    So is shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
  • The most important consideration in my opinion is whether what we call sangha is an object of refuge. Is New Buddhist a fitting object of refuge? I don't think so.

    It doesn't have to be a sangha in order for it to be a useful, helpful community.
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran

    It's just a word.
    So is shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
    I thought I was the only one that did that. :)
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran

    It's just a word.
    So is shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
    touche
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    This isn't a Sangha, this is just another internet forum that allows people debate their own personal views.

    A decent Sangha wouldn't allow this.
    I was having a hard time understand what you meant.

    You mean not allowing people to debate personal views?
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    A sangha? No!

    A bustling train station with a lot of rude encounters: yes!
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    I don't think NewBuddhist qualifies, primarily because of all the chit-chattering all the time.
    Ha, you should visit the kitchen of my Zen temple after Sunday service. I believe last week's conversation involved the building of moats, which of us was a cat person, and how to best defend the temple against zombies. :p
  • The most important consideration in my opinion is whether what we call sangha is an object of refuge. Is New Buddhist a fitting object of refuge? I don't think so.

    It doesn't have to be a sangha in order for it to be a useful, helpful community.
    maybe not by itself, but as part of the community (samgha) of buddhist... it is.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    A sangha? No!

    A bustling train station with a lot of rude encounters: yes!
    So, where are you heading and what time is your train.....?

    :wave: :D
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    I dunno what time my train is, but I'll bet we're heading in the same direction? Can we travel together, dear Fede?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Yes, but I insist on travelling in style.
    I'll bring lunch,(smoked salmon sandwiches, pickled quail's eggs, salade Royale, chocolate truffles) you bring the champagne, and it had better be a good one. ;)
Sign In or Register to comment.