Do Taoists believe in the atman?

Talisman

??

federica

If there are any Taoists, I'm sure they'll comment....
Wouldn't it be better to access a Tao forum and ask them there...?

Just asking..

compassionate_warrior

There are closet Taoists here.

LebronsHeat

Atman, self. Much like in buddhism, it really isn't a concept worth thinking about. The buddha himself refused to answer this question. There is the tao. Tao is the process that makes up all existence. The question of "self" isn't really that important, there is simply the process of change, or impermanence and not-self in buddhism.

Talisman

Yea prolly should have put it in the general banter section.

compassionate_warrior

"Your religion" is for topics on any and all religions.

johnathan

Different spiritual traditions have given Atman different names: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam call it Spirit; Buddhism calls it Buddha nature; Taoism calls it the Tao; Hinduism calls it Atman or Brahman. The various traditions differ in how they conceptualize Essence and how much they emphasize it in their teaching, but Essence is always considered to be the most authentic, innate, and fundamental nature of who we are.

compassionate_warrior

Different spiritual traditions have given Atman different names: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam call it Spirit; Buddhism calls it Buddha nature; Taoism calls it the Tao; Hinduism calls it Atman or Brahman. The various traditions differ in how they conceptualize Essence and how much they emphasize it in their teaching, but Essence is always considered to be the most authentic, innate, and fundamental nature of who we are.

So that's what the "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit" of Christianity is?

LebronsHeat

So that's what the "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit" of Christianity is?

No, holy spirit is separate, a part of God. The closest thing to atman in christianity is soul.

compassionate_warrior

Is that what johnathan says is "Spirit" in Christianity, then? I never did understand the Holy Ghost concept.

johnathan

yes in Christianity... Spirit = soul

Talisman

The Buddha expressly dismisses the concept of an "innate essence" or atman. This is what an-atman means. The concept of the soul or an eternal abiding self is dilusional and leads to rebirth and suffering. The tathagatagharba or buddha-nature is not a personal, innate essence, soul, or atman. It is the potentiality for Buddhahood for all sentient life.

LebronsHeat

Is that what johnathan says is "Spirit" in Christianity, then? I never did understand the Holy Ghost concept.

The holy ghost is a part of the trinity, who they believe makes up God. He can indwell in a human who has accepted Jesus. So they say. Not to be separated with our soul, who you could say is our true self.

johnathan

The word TAO is usually translated as “path” or “way”. To Taoists, the written character for TAO symbolizes Tao as an inner way as well as an outward path. Tao, simply put, is understood to mean the “way of nature”. Practitioners focus on coming into harmony with Tao. Taoism reaches not only into the intellectual and spiritual lives of its followers but also into their physical life.

Taoism starts and ends with observation of nature. In this way, it is just like science, but it is different in that science observes nature objectively, separate from the observer, whereas Taoism observes nature subjectively, seeing the observer and the observed as one entire system. This is the first principle of Taoism: Oneness. There is not "just us," or "just nature," but both.

Every being in the universe
is an expression of the Tao.
It springs into existence,
unconscious, perfect, free,
takes on a physical body,
lets circumstances complete it.
That is why every being
spontaneously honors the Tao.
The Tao gives birth to all beings,
nourishes them, maintains them,
cares for them, comforts them, protects them,
takes them back to itself,
creating without possessing,
acting without expecting,
guiding without interfering.
That is why love of the Tao
is in the very nature of things.


[Tao Te Ching -Mitchell translation, Chapter 51]

This is not to say that there is not a distinction. We're always separating things into "us and them," in one form or another. Quite often we do this with nature, seeing "us" as the human race, and "them" as nature. However, just because there's a distinction doesn't mean there has to be an opposition.

Taoism views the Universe as an interconnected, organic whole. Nothing exists separately from anything else. The Universe is governed by a set of natural and unalterable laws which manifest themselves as a flow of continuous change. This natural order and flow is referred to as the Tao, or the Way. By recognizing and aligning ourselves with these laws, humans can attain a state of being which combines the experience of total freedom with one of complete connectedness to life's processes - being at one with the Tao.

Taoism tries to integrate man and nature, knowing that man and nature are not two things, two separate entities, but are always one. They have a holistic, ecological view of life, in which our existence on earth only makes sense if it is linked with the sun, the moon and the stars, the wind and the rain, and all the other processes of nature. Alone, we are nothing. All life depends on all other life for its existence. In reality nothing can be separated.

Thao

What about the Holy Spirit? I don't know but this website seems to be discussing it: http://www.interreligiousinsight.org/January2004/Jan04Harris.pdf I don't have time to read it or I would give you the information.

Vajraheart

The Buddha expressly dismisses the concept of an "innate essence" or atman. This is what an-atman means. The concept of the soul or an eternal abiding self is dilusional and leads to rebirth and suffering. The tathagatagharba or buddha-nature is not a personal, innate essence, soul, or atman. It is the potentiality for Buddhahood for all sentient life.

Exactly, many in the west have a tendency to reify Buddhanature and ascribe self nature to it, which is of course a mistaken cognition.