Becoming a Monk

MindGate

If someone wanted to become a monk, how would they do it? Especially in the Zen Sect (but any kind of monk would do).

Like, would a person fly to Thailand or something and live in a monastery? How would they get food/toiletries? Would they beg? Is it dangerous? Would you be allowed to leave? Are there any monasteries like this in America? So many questions.

Not saying I want to be a monk, per se, just curious.

SherabDorje

There are lots of Zen monasteries in the English-speaking world. If you are in the USA, just find one on Wikipedia. I recommend a weekend or a single day first.

hermitwin

Monks in Thailand do not beg. Only fake monks do that.

MindGate

Then what do they do?

hermitwin

You offer food to them. Most people kneel as they do this.
Its considered a blessing.

MindGate

Thats still begging! Going door to door is begging. Walking down the street waiting to get food is begging. Being poor and sitting on a street corner getting food by random passerbys is begging. Its living on alms - and in laymen terms, begging!

Takuan

Well, there are many several monasteries in the United States and Europe. I would suggest contacting each one and getting information from the source. If you're looking into Zen, there are Plum Village (Thich Nhat Hahn) associates in the United States. There are also a couple of Japanese style (Soto and Rinzai) Zen Monasteries in the United States. Zen Mountain is a pretty big Japanese style monastery in New York.

OneWithFlow

Ah now you got me thinking about the whole becoming a monk thing again :eek:

How often do monks discuss dharma? Particularly in zen...

ShiftPlusOne

There's no shame in begging when you're a monk. That's how monks have traditionally existed. There were certain rules, like don't take more than what you need for the day. Since you're meant to eat one meal anyway, you wouldn't be getting all that much. I am pretty sure nowadays the laypeople come to the temples and offer food, so you don't have to go around.

I may be completely wrong though.

Cloud

It's not begging, it's an exchange. Lay Buddhists offer food to monks in exchange for services and teachings from the monastery, as well as it is making merit. The monks go door to door but if no one is there offering food they move on. It's not begging in the sense of just giving without receiving anything back. It's helping those who are helpful to you and your community, a symbiotic relationship. At least that's how it is overseas.

seeker242

It depends heavily on what kind of monk in what tradition. Some zen traditions are quite different than other traditions. There are different precepts to take. Most Japanese Zen monks are allowed to get married, have kids, have a normal job, house, car, etc. They don't wear robes or beg and they live pretty much like normal people. I know this one monk and was surprised when someone told me he was a monk. I was like: A monk?! What do you mean he's a monk. He drives around in a Cadillac! Korean Zen monks on the other hand are more like traditional monks, shaved head, live a monastery or Zen Center, no jobs, etc.

Ah now you got me thinking about the whole becoming a monk thing again :eek:

How often do monks discuss dharma? Particularly in zen...

Their entire life revolves around dharma. They sleep, eat and breathe dharma 24/7. Or at least they try to.

sukhita

.... Their entire life revolves around dharma. They sleep, eat and breathe dharma 24/7. Or at least they try to.

Do these monks rote learn the entire suttas/sutras like the monks of old, or do they now rely on written texts. If they just refer to written texts now-a-days, then they have shed quite a huge chunk of their "duty". Just curious....

Tekchef

First off, you would want to spend some time in practice as a Buddhist. Study with a Zen teacher of confirmed lineage for awhile, develop a consistant Meditative practice, start studying all the Buddhist concepts, etc. You may even want to pursue a college degree in Buddhist studies or Eastern Faiths.

Then, I would think you might want to spend short periods of time at a Monastary to see if that is the life you want to live. Example-in Oregon, there is Great Vows Monastary. It is a Zen monastary that uses both Soto and Rinzai teachings. You would first stay a night or two, then maybe a week or two.

After you have stayed there many times and find that it is the life you want..then it is time to talk to the Abbot/Senior Monks about ordainment. From what I can tell, they just don't let people walk in and ordain..they want people who are serious about living as a Monastic.

You might also want to save up some money to support yourself while you study for ordainment. Most of them, in the US at least, are supported only by private donations, and might not be able to fully support you while you live there. This is not the case of "pay for position", but more of the hard reality of the fact that the support is not there as in Asia.

I think if you truly deep down want to be a monastic, you will find the way to do so..it is a calling of sorts. I will personally most likely stay at one here and there for retreats over my lifetime.

seeker242

.... Their entire life revolves around dharma. They sleep, eat and breathe dharma 24/7. Or at least they try to.

Do these monks rote learn the entire suttas/sutras like the monks of old, or do they now rely on written texts. If they just refer to written texts now-a-days, then they have shed quite a huge chunk of their "duty". Just curious....

Not the ones that I know of. Of course, they have a good understanding of the Dharma and have read the sutras, at least most of them anyway. But they don't "study" them per say. They look for understanding in meditation practice and not necessarily texts.

sukhita

@seeker242
Thanks for that.

createrboy

In Theravada Buddhism Sangha(monk)take male or something to eat given from others.

In Theravada's point of view begged food is not the unwholesome food .The ambition
of the Sanga is to reach Nivanna not to put strong effort in seeking food , place ,
luxuries . Buddha also accepted meal from others .But he abstains from accepting raw meat.
And then He also taught ,
Gotama the recluse holds himself aloof from causing injury to seeds or plants [19].
He takes but one meal a day, not eating at night, refraining from food after hours (after midday).
He refrains from being a spectator at shows at fairs, with nautch dances, singing, and music.
He abstains from wearing, adorning, or ornamenting himself with garlands, scents, and unguents.
He abstains from the use of large and lofty beds.
He abstains from accepting silver or gold.
He abstains from accepting uncooked grain.
He abstains from accepting raw meat.
He abstains from accepting women or girls.
He abstains from accepting bondmen or bondwomen.
[\q 006/] He abstains from accepting sheep or goats.
He abstains from accepting fowls or swine.
He abstains from accepting elephants, cattle. horses, and mares.
He abstains from accepting cultivated fields or waste.
He abstains from the acting as a, go-between or messenger.
He abstains from buying and selling.
He abstains from cheating with scales or bronzes [20] or measures.
He abstains from the crooked ways of bribery, cheating, and fraud.
He abstains from maiming, murder, putting in bonds, highway robbery, dacoity, and violence.û
`Such are the things, brethren, which an unconverted man, when speaking in praise of the Tathàgata, might say.'
Digha Nikaya [COLLECTION OF LONG DIALOGUES.], BRAHMA-JâLA SUTTA [The Perfect Net],
THE MORALITIES . PART I. http://metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/1Digha-Nikaya/Digha1/01-brahmajala-e.html#q-001
Forgive my spelling .

DhammaDhatu

Bhiksu may be literally translated as "beggar" or more broadly as "one who lives by alms."

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Bhikkhu

DhammaDhatu

Would they beg?

DhammaDhatu

This video is especially interesting

Sabre

If someone wanted to become a monk, how would they do it? Especially in the Zen Sect (but any kind of monk would do).

Like, would a person fly to Thailand or something and live in a monastery? How would they get food/toiletries? Would they beg? Is it dangerous? Would you be allowed to leave? Are there any monasteries like this in America? So many questions.

Not saying I want to be a monk, per se, just curious.

I believe in Zen the whole begging aspect is not that big of a deal, compared to some other traditions. The food is still offered by lay people, but the arms round is not a big part of it. Or at least not in all monasteries. Zen is very wide, there are many different sub-traditions. Depending on what tradition you follow, the monastery life will be different. Some have very strict rules, others do not. I heard some monks in certain tradition still handle money for example.

But they will always be allowed to leave of course, life is impermanent and so can the decision to be a monk be.

Dazzle

Hi Dhamma Dhatu,

Thanks for showing the videos of Ajahn Chah and of the early days of Amaravati,

It looks very different there now.


.

vinlyn

It's not begging, it's an exchange. Lay Buddhists offer food to monks in exchange for services and teachings from the monastery, as well as it is making merit. The monks go door to door but if no one is there offering food they move on. It's not begging in the sense of just giving without receiving anything back. It's helping those who are helpful to you and your community, a symbiotic relationship. At least that's how it is overseas.

Yes, Cloud, exactly. The monks do perform services to the community, and in return the community feeds them, while other people may help the upkeep of the temple.

There are some temples in Thailand where you take the food to the temple (for example for the main meal you would go around 10:30) and you give food to a specific monk and spend time with him conversing while he is eating. This is a little unusual, but there is one temple somewhere near Victory Monument that does that. Other temples, including most Thai temples here in the States, you take food for the main meal, and after the monks are done eating, the lay people eat together.

NOTaGangsta

Then there are Mahayana monks that do not need to go on alms rounds. The devotees support them within the organisation so they can actively propagate the Dharma.