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Private insurance has always been a bomb under the average Joe's interest in receiving an effective health care treatment - psychiatrists still know what they are doing though. The reason meditation and Buddhism is not widespread in psychiatry is not that psychiatrists won't use it - they simply know better, or at least know what's safe and effective to use. Until meditation and Buddhism has been proved (by unbiased scientists) undeniably effective and advisable by the "medical society", I think we should all be grateful such practices aren't used. It's never smart to use untested methods in any serious case, and thankfully few do that. You wouldn't test da Vinchi's "flying machine" knowing that airplanes do the job.
a lot of uninformed opinions here. psychiatry is helpful if not essential for the major mental disordors:schizophrenia,major depression and anxiety, bipolor disorders, etc. the are the result of chemical imbalances in a person's system and are best treated medically and,yes, that includes medication. i'm speaking as a person with a bipolar disorder. my life for years was chaotic and unmanageable. i won't go into details but i touched base in almost every negative situation in life. although buddhism resonated greatly with me, practice was impossible. a certain medication was almost a miracle for me and and i know many other people who were helped with medication as well. personality disorders are another matter. i won't discuss them as treatment for them is almost as varied as the disorders themselves. anyway, that's my two cents.
may all beings live with wisdom. may all beings be awakened. may all beings live an enlightened life.
schizophrenia doesn't exist. etymologically: "mind divided" in what? 2 personalities? no, the DSM already has a name for this "dis'ease". 2 hemispheres? no, we don't follow the scientific method.
dukkha is the only dis'ease in samsåra... is this too advanced? it's very simple to comprehend.
psychiatry is deluded, conceited and tortures its clients... ups, "patients".
What we fail to recognise here is that psychologists ans psychiatrists are human beings with the same failings and most of us.
I've only had experience with one psychiatrist and by all accounts he is a pretty remarkable one that has helped many people from prisoners to high performing athletes. I am sure the majority are less effective than him though.
I recently read am interesting academic paper on neophyte psychologists and the authors raised an important question on looking into the motivations of individuals for their practice. It was found that many were looking for solutions to their own problems or on deeper exploration the superficial ones were quite different to the internal/intrinsic ones. Such issues did impact on the efficacy of their practice often to the detriment of their clients. Fortunately, this appears to change over time The paper does support conclusions that I have reached previously that psychologists tend to be less mentally balanced than the general population average.
What's this got to do with Buddhism? Well, I'm not sure if their is a direct link but being a Buddhist for me means quite different things to me than many other Buddhists I know. My journey to this point of my life is unique, as are all our journeys!The same is true for any path we take in life whether we want to be a psychiatrist, a psychologist or a bus driver. We must, therefore, take care to judge everyone as humans, rather than by the professional path that we has chosen.
what's the difference between psychiatry and psychology?
poison for the mind = neuroleptics.
basically, torture.
I'm enjoying all of your replies. It's interesting to me that people are trained to watch for those who may dissociate while meditating. That's a new idea to me.
It is true that we take away some human rights when we court order a person into treatment. there's a lot of gray area, and we try to maintain as many rights as we can while also maintaining safety for the patient and for society. it's not easy, and I spend much of my time explaining this to my patients who are upset with being forced into the hospital.
The docs, social workers, psychologist, and nurses that I work with have a lot of compassion for our patients. I believe they want to see them get real help. and simultaneously we are struggling with tight budgets and demanding insurance companies and restrictive medication formularies.
thanks for all the replies. I think I'm getting a handle on how people within buddhism view mental health.
I saw a monk shake a glass of water when he said [paraphrasing], "This is a normal mind." He let the water calm down in the glass and and labelled it, "A calm attentive mind."
Maybe the psychiatrist's honorable job is to simply try to give people with extremely shaken minds a chance to settle down enough to be able to calm the mind for themselves.
no, it is to drug and poison the brain... to break the glass instead of letting it calm down.
under the Dharma, samsåraPutras have no "authority" (really, Wisdom) to (help) settle/calm other's minds.
Meditation can cause dissociative episodes in people who are prone to that. Teachers are supposed to be skilled enough to recognize who can safely practice meditation, and for whom it might be detrimental, but so many people take up the practice on their own, it's impossible to monitor its use. These tools need to be handled carefully. There is no one panacea that works for everyone. Meditation can't solve everything. People with severe chemical imbalances often need to address that chemically. Though schizophrenia, depression and anxiety in some cases are caused by childhood trauma, and so can be addressed via effective (non-chemical) therapy. The problem is, it can take years to resolve these conditions by those means, and most insurance plans won't cover extensive treatment.
Monks aren't trained to diagnose mental illness. Buddhist psychology may work for some people, but not for some of the types of cases that have been mentioned here.
monitor? like a drone or zombie?
samsåraPutra's opinions are... irrelevant for the Dharma.
No schizophrenia No dreaming No vision No psychiatrists No Buddhists No path No awakening No fetters No worry No glass No third eye No mirror No fragments
I would like to think that the brain is one thing and the mind, is another. One is a material/physical thing (medication can reach it) whilst the other is purely mental (medication cannot reach it). It seems a psychologist is in the best position to handle matters relating to issues of mind, where no anomalies of the brain is detected. A psychiatrist is the one to attend to ailments of the (physical) brain. Ok, all of this is basic stuff. But now to Buddhism: I think that Buddhist meditation and mindfulness practices are about "cultivation of the mind" and has little or nothing to do with the treatment of any "illness" of the brain. So, back to the OP's question: "what Buddhists think about psychiatry. good, bad, or otherwise",? IMHO, psychiatry is essential in addressing issues of the physical brain as both psychology and Budddhism cannot address this physical issue. I'm not a specialist in any of these areas, so I could be wrong....
{ i } have no problem with psychology; i said psychiatry... the one that uses neuroleptics, the one that should be sued/killed to oblivion, the one that uses torture as method to "ease mental suffering", the one that doesn't respect basic fundamental human rights.
Tammy already addressed those concerns in an earlier post.
"Calm down, Tom. We know how you get riled up about psychiatry."
I would like to clarify one thing ... whatever the original meaning was for schizophrenia, we no longer think of it as "2 minds" or "split personality".
it is characterized by positive symptoms (hallucinations, delusions, and paranoia) and negative symptoms (flat affect, inattention to one's physical needs, social difficulties).
the meds help with the positive symptoms, but not so much with the negative ones. (positive and negative not meaning good and bad, but meaning present and absent).
there are many people with these symptoms who live a happy life and are never court ordered into treatment. They are odd, eccentric, etc., but safe and happy.
it's the one's whose very life is endangered that make it to my unit. I can not see that the "death of all psychiatrists" (as mentioned somewhere in a prior post) would be of benefit to these people. they would die very quickly, and I see no benefit to that. in spite of our limitations, we are needed to help these people with basic self care and staying alive.
Thank you for that explanation of schizophrenia, Tammy. I was going to try to clarify that, but you did a much better job than I could have. I've known 2 bona-fide schizophrenics in my life, and although both were quirky and eccentric, neither were happy. Both had social difficulties, one was not able to keep himself safe. (Occasional suicidal tendencies.) One did eventually get meds, one didn't, and still struggles. Both had a tendency to suddenly change mood in an intimidating or creepy way. One definitely had early childhood trauma in his background, not sure about the other.
Tammy. what do you think about treating schizophrenia by treating unresolved childhood trauma, in cases in which that is present? The patient may have to be on meds while under treatment, but the goal would be to resolve the trauma, at which point the patient would no longer need the meds. I know of one documented case where this was successfully done. Sorry, I don't have the title of the book, it was long ago that I read it.
"Split personality" is long out of date for describing schizophrenia, and more aptly describes cases of dissociation, though the correct description of the latter, as I understand is "multiple personalities" rather than "split".
My psychiatrist is a Buddhist (or at least has Buddhist leanings), and my psychologist is interested in/has a very good understanding of Buddhist beliefs as well.
I'm enjoying all of your replies. It's interesting to me that people are trained to watch for those who may dissociate while meditating. That's a new idea to me. thanks for all the replies. I think I'm getting a handle on how people within buddhism view mental health.
As you can see, opinions of Buddhists on mental health care are not easily categorized; they're all over the map.
Frankly, I doubt that many teachers are trained to recognize students who may show signs of risk of dissociating due to meditation. A few teachers do study psychology, but most don't. I read an article that said teachers should be able to make that call, but in reality, I think few are able to.
Compassionate warrior. Those observations of schizophrenics are how it looks to you. Your thoughts. To some schizophrenics they accept their situation. Cry when hurt. Chop wood when planning.
Schizophrenia means split from reality. It means attachment to thinking. Its a spectrum but dorothy is sometimes missing.
Another One, Copassionate, I understand that you believe the root of psychotic symtoms is a past trauma. But a schizophrenic is really fragile there are some other demeaning words for that I feel.
I would be afraid that having a psychotherapist poking around to find memories of the past would be like painting a picture and then glueing (sic) on clay 3 dimensional artwork. It could be cool but I don't think it would make it to the museum. Unless you were famous or dead.
It would be fighting fire with fire. IMHO.
But I respect you for caring enough to put that idea out there. In time it may ripen for me. Hopefully as it grows on me, rather than out of desperation, but I'll know.
Hi, Jeffrey. I appreciate your perspective. Poking around in memories can definitely be scary! Good word: fragile. And I don't know that all schizophrenics have early trauma in their history, I'm not sure that's been studied. (I did say "in some cases", up above.) There's one very time- and labor-intensive way that's been used to heal schizophrenics (I'm sorry I don't remember the title of the book that detailed this), which is extremely gentle and supportive, loving. A surrogate family-of-origin is created, a psychologically "healthy" family, and the patient lives with this "healthy" family full-time, and regresses to infancy, getting lots of affection and all the right attention, and then gradually moves forward in age, getting age-appropriate "parenting" and hugs, etc. (as well as healthy personal and behavioral boundaries). This has worked in the past, but most therapists can't make that kind of commitment. Also, due to cost, it isn't practical. But it works. In an ideal world, therapies and med treatments that work would be the priority, not ones that make the most money for pharma corporations or that insurance favors. Keep up the good work, Jeffrey.
I have to admit that living in a pureland would be a wonderful place to practice. Amitabha Buddha removing all inner outer and secret obstacles. In that process one of the steps would be to sit with the turmoil from the past. Without manipulating the mind. Just let it rest in primordial purity. The most attached thinking is suffering. And it is not Nirvana. But that is only attached one sided view. The dharma turns poison into medicine. Thank you vely much!
I like the way you look at the mind and brain. It makes me feel good even though my teacher's lineage is thrown in with the 'mind only' school of buddhism. Or as I see.
I liken it to buddhism can help you give up alcohol, but it cannot stop Deliriums Tremons when you give it up. Or in my case it cannot control the 8 worldly winds.
"{ i } have no problem with psychology; i said psychiatry... the one that uses neuroleptics, the one that should be sued/killed to oblivion, the one that uses torture as method to "ease mental suffering", the one that doesn't respect basic fundamental human rights."
Vincenzi, I am the first one to be guilty of this, but even when you have a genuine insite into things, when you turn it into a weapon.. it only hardens your view. I think you are sensing that the way things are is not how it should be. I wish I did not have sickness, death, old age, and confusion. What you are experiencing is a clear no to suffering which is the beginning of clarity.
But if you let it harden it will be more difficult to work with and like I say it might feel like a weapon. And as they say the wind is not at your back. Your swimming upstream and maybe you can help some of the people like yourself who are against meds and are suffering with the body of wisdom you accumulate. The enlightened people don't need your help. We all get hurt.
"Tammy. what do you think about treating schizophrenia by treating unresolved childhood trauma, in cases in which that is present?"
Psychosis (which is what I think we are really talking about here: the symptoms of hallucinating, delusions, and paranoia) comes in several forms. The most well known is true schizophrenia, which from what we know (and I am first to admit that we know only a small bit about how our brains function) is a result of too much dopamine in the brain. There are people with schizophrenia who have no history of trauma, and no history of substance abuse.
The other diagnoses that involve psychosis include bipolar in some forms, PTSD in some cases, extreme depression in some cases, and schizoaffective disorder in some cases. In these cases, the primary diagnosis does not necessarily involve the symptoms of psychosis, but those symptoms can be present to varying degrees. From my experience, it seems like these people are more likely to have had some trauma. In these cases, I would guess that treating this trauma would be helpful in resolving the psychotic symptoms. That is what I observe, although I don't have research to back it up right at hand. I do see that the people with these diagnoses don't have constant thought disorder symptoms, and they do seem to worsen when they are stressed. This feels quite different to me from those with schizophrenia. again, my experience without research to back me, that I know of.
Just because psychiatry can be used abusiveley by institutions, doesn't mean it's all bad. It means reforms need to be introduced into those institutions.
Comments
dukkha is the only dis'ease in samsåra... is this too advanced? it's very simple to comprehend.
psychiatry is deluded, conceited and tortures its clients... ups, "patients".
poison for the mind = neuroleptics.
basically, torture. psychiatrists should die for this era to end?
psychiatry è un hostis humanis generis.
under the Dharma, samsåraPutras have no "authority" (really, Wisdom) to (help) settle/calm other's minds.
samsåraPutra's opinions are... irrelevant for the Dharma.
No dreaming
No vision
No psychiatrists
No Buddhists
No path
No awakening
No fetters
No worry
No glass
No third eye
No mirror
No fragments
Calm down, Tom. We know how you get riled up about psychiatry.
I would like to clarify one thing ... whatever the original meaning was for schizophrenia, we no longer think of it as "2 minds" or "split personality".
it is characterized by positive symptoms (hallucinations, delusions, and paranoia) and negative symptoms (flat affect, inattention to one's physical needs, social difficulties).
the meds help with the positive symptoms, but not so much with the negative ones. (positive and negative not meaning good and bad, but meaning present and absent).
there are many people with these symptoms who live a happy life and are never court ordered into treatment. They are odd, eccentric, etc., but safe and happy.
it's the one's whose very life is endangered that make it to my unit. I can not see that the "death of all psychiatrists" (as mentioned somewhere in a prior post) would be of benefit to these people. they would die very quickly, and I see no benefit to that. in spite of our limitations, we are needed to help these people with basic self care and staying alive.
Tammy. what do you think about treating schizophrenia by treating unresolved childhood trauma, in cases in which that is present? The patient may have to be on meds while under treatment, but the goal would be to resolve the trauma, at which point the patient would no longer need the meds. I know of one documented case where this was successfully done. Sorry, I don't have the title of the book, it was long ago that I read it.
"Split personality" is long out of date for describing schizophrenia, and more aptly describes cases of dissociation, though the correct description of the latter, as I understand is "multiple personalities" rather than "split".
Frankly, I doubt that many teachers are trained to recognize students who may show signs of risk of dissociating due to meditation. A few teachers do study psychology, but most don't. I read an article that said teachers should be able to make that call, but in reality, I think few are able to.
Schizophrenia means split from reality. It means attachment to thinking. Its a spectrum but dorothy is sometimes missing.
I would be afraid that having a psychotherapist poking around to find memories of the past would be like painting a picture and then glueing (sic) on clay 3 dimensional artwork. It could be cool but I don't think it would make it to the museum. Unless you were famous or dead.
It would be fighting fire with fire. IMHO.
But I respect you for caring enough to put that idea out there. In time it may ripen for me. Hopefully as it grows on me, rather than out of desperation, but I'll know.
Keep up the good work, Jeffrey.
I have to admit that living in a pureland would be a wonderful place to practice. Amitabha Buddha removing all inner outer and secret obstacles. In that process one of the steps would be to sit with the turmoil from the past. Without manipulating the mind. Just let it rest in primordial purity. The most attached thinking is suffering. And it is not Nirvana. But that is only attached one sided view. The dharma turns poison into medicine. Thank you vely much!
I like the way you look at the mind and brain. It makes me feel good even though my teacher's lineage is thrown in with the 'mind only' school of buddhism. Or as I see.
I liken it to buddhism can help you give up alcohol, but it cannot stop Deliriums Tremons when you give it up. Or in my case it cannot control the 8 worldly winds.
Thanks,
Jeff
"{ i } have no problem with psychology; i said psychiatry... the one that uses neuroleptics, the one that should be sued/killed to oblivion, the one that uses torture as method to "ease mental suffering", the one that doesn't respect basic fundamental human rights."
Vincenzi, I am the first one to be guilty of this, but even when you have a genuine insite into things, when you turn it into a weapon.. it only hardens your view. I think you are sensing that the way things are is not how it should be. I wish I did not have sickness, death, old age, and confusion. What you are experiencing is a clear no to suffering which is the beginning of clarity.
But if you let it harden it will be more difficult to work with and like I say it might feel like a weapon. And as they say the wind is not at your back. Your swimming upstream and maybe you can help some of the people like yourself who are against meds and are suffering with the body of wisdom you accumulate. The enlightened people don't need your help. We all get hurt.
Psychosis (which is what I think we are really talking about here: the symptoms of hallucinating, delusions, and paranoia) comes in several forms. The most well known is true schizophrenia, which from what we know (and I am first to admit that we know only a small bit about how our brains function) is a result of too much dopamine in the brain. There are people with schizophrenia who have no history of trauma, and no history of substance abuse.
The other diagnoses that involve psychosis include bipolar in some forms, PTSD in some cases, extreme depression in some cases, and schizoaffective disorder in some cases. In these cases, the primary diagnosis does not necessarily involve the symptoms of psychosis, but those symptoms can be present to varying degrees. From my experience, it seems like these people are more likely to have had some trauma. In these cases, I would guess that treating this trauma would be helpful in resolving the psychotic symptoms. That is what I observe, although I don't have research to back it up right at hand. I do see that the people with these diagnoses don't have constant thought disorder symptoms, and they do seem to worsen when they are stressed. This feels quite different to me from those with schizophrenia. again, my experience without research to back me, that I know of.
I'd like to state that I work within the paradigm of the American system, which follows the DSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders#DSM-IV-TR:_the_current_version) - which is not the exact model in other nations. There is some disagreement about all of this.