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SEX, SAKE AND ZEN!

DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
edited December 2011 in Buddhism Today
Most Westerners who become fascinated with Zen Buddhism are intrigued with its reputation as an anti-authoritarian, freedom-loving, individualistic tradition. Books by excellent writers like Alan Watts popularized an image of Zen as a very relaxed, go-with-the-flow type of religion. But even a brief visit to a typical Zen temple is enough to make us painfully aware of the difference between hype and reality. Life in real Zen temples, in fact, is often so structured, regimented and heavily regulated as to quickly dispel the romanticism created by much of the literature about it. Far from being a hippie rendition of Buddhism, Zen discipleship can be demanding and severe.

But sometimes even misguided stereotypes are born from seeds of truth. Enter 15th century Japanese monk Ikkyu Sojun, who was truly as free, wild and allergic to authorities as advertised.

For Ikkyu, Zen was not a spontaneous calling. Rather, he stumbled upon it as an alternative to being murdered in infancy. Given that choice, Zen training didn’t seem so bad after all. Ikkyu, in fact, was the illegitimate son of the emperor of Japan, and the object of several conspiracies aimed at thinning out the ranks of potential candidates to the throne. In an effort to have his life spared, his mother entrusted him to a Zen monastery when he was only 5 years old: not the most fun-filled scenario for a little boy, but clearly more appealing than having angry assassins slicing you to pieces.

His early life was extremely tough since the training he received from the Zen monks was brutally stern. Despite some serious bouts of depression in this joyless environment, it became quickly clear to his teachers that Ikkyu possessed an amazing intellect, and that his grasp of Zen was unparalleled. But the fact that he excelled in this setting didn’t mean he felt at home in it. Despite genuinely loving Zen (or perhaps because of it), he was less than thrilled with the spiritual bureaucracy of the temples. Also, many of the priests bugged him: too many political games and too much time spent courting the favor of rich patrons. And so when the day came when his master presented him with a certificate of enlightenment—which was both a great honor and the necessary document to begin climbing the Zen hierarchy—Ikkyu promptly decided to wave goodbye to a monastic career and burned it.

This doesn’t mean he had given up on Zen. Far from it. In his thinking, it was the entire Zen establishment that had abandoned real Zen by turning it into a dogmatic parody of what it was supposed to be. Life in the temples was stifled by too many rules and not enough fresh air. The so-called professionals of Zen were in Ikkyu’s eyes a bunch of posers—too busy acting “spiritual” to be able to really taste spirituality in its rawest forms. Some people believed Zen enlightenment could only be found among clouds of incense in silent meditation. Ikkyu, on the other hand, found sake-drinking and wild sex more to his liking. As he put it in his poems, “The autumn breeze of a single night of love is better than a hundred thousand years of sterile sitting meditation.” Or, even more bluntly, “Don’t hesitate: get laid—that’s wisdom. Sitting around chanting sutras: that’s crap.” Driven by an uncompromising thirst for life, Ikkyu became a wandering monk, testing his Zen insights far away from the seclusion of the monasteries, and earning the nickname of “Crazy Cloud.”

The point of his erotic escapades and wild adventures was to suggest that the “sacred” is nothing other than regular life experienced with 100 percent awareness. Or perhaps, sake-drinking and inordinate amounts of sex didn’t need any justification at all other than the fact that they were a hell of a lot of fun. Ikkyu didn’t give a rat’s ass about what the religious authorities of his day thought of him anyway. But in the course of his travels, Ikkyu managed to influence great numbers of artists, poets, calligraphers, musicians, and actors in such a way that his ideas left a deep mark on the development of several Japanese art forms for centuries to come. Even his love life came to be celebrated through the ages, since his relationship with Lady Mori ended up being among the most famous romances in Japanese history.

But since good old Ikkyu was a man who loved paradoxes, when a civil war had destroyed most Zen temples in the country, he came to the rescue of the very institutions he had ferociously criticized. Just when the future of Zen seemed in peril, he was able to enlist the help of the many acquaintances he had met during a lifetime of travels and mobilized them into rebuilding some of the key temples throughout the country. So, oddly enough, much of modern Zen owes a huge debt for its existence to a man who preferred the company of hookers to that of monks.

http://www.disinfo.com/2011/12/sex-sake-and-zen/

Comments

  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    There always has to be a 'black sheep', right ?
    RebeccaS
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Avoid harm, learn to do good, purify the mind. Seems like he had the first two down. Personally I don't agree that the holy life can be a hedonistic life lived with awareness. Of course there's no rule that we can't go out and have fun or seek pleasure in whatever way we like. I certainly do. But lets not trick ourselves into thinking that we can have our kleshas and rid ourselves of the negative aspects of them at the same time.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Avoid harm, learn to do good, purify the mind. Seems like he had the first two down. Personally I don't agree that the holy life can be a hedonistic life lived with awareness. Of course there's no rule that we can't go out and have fun or seek pleasure in whatever way we like. I certainly do. But lets not trick ourselves into thinking that we can have our kleshas and rid ourselves of the negative aspects of them at the same time.
    Agreed!
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    There always has to be a 'black sheep', right ?
    It seems like it...
  • He sure seemed to like paradoxes allright,
    What I don't understand is this, if he wanted to live life to the fullest,the saké drinking wouldn't contribute to his mindfullness.
    Enjoying seks and romance kinda is a part of our nature, and it's hard to tell whether he for example caused harm in his acting. If not, why not have a little fun in life. I recognize myself a bit in him, the part that religious institutions and politics can become a chokehold rather then setting you free.

    Aside from moralistics, I enjoyed reading it :)

  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited December 2011
    @LeonBasin
    "SEX, SAKE AND ZEN"!-
    I'll take one of each!
    Thanks for the thread Leon, good read
  • Thank you very much for this beautiful thread !
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    @LeonBasin
    "SEX, SAKE AND ZEN"!-
    I'll take one of each!
    Thanks for the thread Leon, good read
    You are welcome!:)
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Thank you very much for this beautiful thread !
    Welcome!:0
  • When looking for Liberation where should I go?
    Will I find it in bars and brothels or is it to be found in Buddha- Halls?

    Of course not!
    Don’t go anywhere.
    Don’t make anything.

    A drizzle falls down – without effort - on the paper scraps of last night’s firework.

    Happy Newyear.
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    Hell I say I like this man. Of course, his measures are a bit more than even I'd care to experience. I like drinking, smoking, enjoying some fine medicinal "herbs" every now and then, and good old fashioned love making. But I take it all in stride. I still do good, I make sure I am mindful of everything I do. I just live the life of a normal human being, just in a mindful way and I make sure to practice right speech and action when possible. To me, this is a middle way fit for me. I am not giving in to pure decadence, but neither am I abstaining from everything like a monk.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Hell I say I like this man. Of course, his measures are a bit more than even I'd care to experience. I like drinking, smoking, enjoying some fine medicinal "herbs" every now and then, and good old fashioned love making. But I take it all in stride. I still do good, I make sure I am mindful of everything I do. I just live the life of a normal human being, just in a mindful way and I make sure to practice right speech and action when possible. To me, this is a middle way fit for me. I am not giving in to pure decadence, but neither am I abstaining from everything like a monk.
    Thank you for your honesty!
  • very very interesting. I think I woulda liked this guy. Don't know about joining him in all the other stuff, does history say he was cute?

    But really there is a point in Zen where you are truly a devils advocate, and this shows it. I am saying this as a HUGE devils advocate. If someone tells me "this is how it is done" I am more likely to do it different than the same (I make an exception for anything including sharp objects). it would be easy to write this guy off except for the fact he rescued the same monastaries he challenged, that suggests he really was thinking. Or it means he was not cut out for all the monastic rules so a lay person life was better however with his intelligence and early training he wasn't becoming a woodcutter anytime soon. In another thread someone said we cannot all be monks because then there would be no more people for the next generation of monks.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    very very interesting. I think I woulda liked this guy. Don't know about joining him in all the other stuff, does history say he was cute?

    But really there is a point in Zen where you are truly a devils advocate, and this shows it. I am saying this as a HUGE devils advocate. If someone tells me "this is how it is done" I am more likely to do it different than the same (I make an exception for anything including sharp objects). it would be easy to write this guy off except for the fact he rescued the same monastaries he challenged, that suggests he really was thinking. Or it means he was not cut out for all the monastic rules so a lay person life was better however with his intelligence and early training he wasn't becoming a woodcutter anytime soon. In another thread someone said we cannot all be monks because then there would be no more people for the next generation of monks.
    I think they have a picture on the link I provided, if not..you can Google him! lol.
  • Ahh I think I will stick with my guy. But I am pretty sure this lifetime wasn't the one for monastic life.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Ahh I think I will stick with my guy. But I am pretty sure this lifetime wasn't the one for monastic life.
    Who is your guy?
  • Who is your guy?

    My 'undefined relationship', M. We have been together for about a year and a half with a few breaks in there. I just decided that since we seem to get into a stupid break-up fight whenever there is a move towards more commitment then I was going to stop that part of it and be undefined. Funny cuz he is the one who wants more commitment level generally but in your 40's you tend to have a few issues left over from other relationships. Meanwhile he makes me feel great, takes responsibility for his rather big issues, and is a good person. There is that cute and other rather adult stuff, but we wont go TMI.

    I like the idea that someone long long ago studied and was apparently a very good teacherr while having less of a monk life. Also without pretending to have a full monk-style life and then getting 'caught' doing things he professed were wrong. I am more like honest up front, not hiding anything really. I have children, I am not married to my guy, and I waited 7 years after my divorce to find someone I felt comfortable introducing to my kids and family so there is no sneaking around. To me as a layperson in this era that seems 'right'. I could be wrong, but let me tell you what many years on your own teaches you, one that you do not need to accept something that is not right in order to be with someone, and when someone is good for you then it is a great comfort in this life, so anyones approval is rather unnecessary.

    Bet you just wanted a name huh
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Who is your guy?

    My 'undefined relationship', M. We have been together for about a year and a half with a few breaks in there. I just decided that since we seem to get into a stupid break-up fight whenever there is a move towards more commitment then I was going to stop that part of it and be undefined. Funny cuz he is the one who wants more commitment level generally but in your 40's you tend to have a few issues left over from other relationships. Meanwhile he makes me feel great, takes responsibility for his rather big issues, and is a good person. There is that cute and other rather adult stuff, but we wont go TMI.

    I like the idea that someone long long ago studied and was apparently a very good teacherr while having less of a monk life. Also without pretending to have a full monk-style life and then getting 'caught' doing things he professed were wrong. I am more like honest up front, not hiding anything really. I have children, I am not married to my guy, and I waited 7 years after my divorce to find someone I felt comfortable introducing to my kids and family so there is no sneaking around. To me as a layperson in this era that seems 'right'. I could be wrong, but let me tell you what many years on your own teaches you, one that you do not need to accept something that is not right in order to be with someone, and when someone is good for you then it is a great comfort in this life, so anyones approval is rather unnecessary.

    Bet you just wanted a name huh
    :) Thank you so much for sharing, I was confused when you said a name, I thought it was a teacher!:) But I see that he is your teacher perhaps? :) Thank you once again!
  • Avoid harm, learn to do good, purify the mind. Seems like he had the first two down. Personally I don't agree that the holy life can be a hedonistic life lived with awareness. Of course there's no rule that we can't go out and have fun or seek pleasure in whatever way we like. I certainly do. But lets not trick ourselves into thinking that we can have our kleshas and rid ourselves of the negative aspects of them at the same time.
    Hmm... why not?
  • When looking for Liberation where should I go?
    Will I find it in bars and brothels or is it to be found in Buddha- Halls?

    Of course not!
    Don’t go anywhere.
    Don’t make anything.

    A drizzle falls down – without effort - on the paper scraps of last night’s firework.

    Happy Newyear.
    _/\_
  • Avoid harm, learn to do good, purify the mind. Seems like he had the first two down. Personally I don't agree that the holy life can be a hedonistic life lived with awareness. Of course there's no rule that we can't go out and have fun or seek pleasure in whatever way we like. I certainly do. But lets not trick ourselves into thinking that we can have our kleshas and rid ourselves of the negative aspects of them at the same time.
    In my temple we burned the kleshas.The Masters were chased out years ago.There is a middle way between the ideal and hedonism.Nothing wrong with small doses of alcohol.To be sincere I do mediation daily,practice kindness,with no physical Sangha and surrounded by religious,traditional ,NYC people.The monastics are the ones who have it easy!
  • zen sickness indicates
    a serious attachment.
    be happy joyous and free.
  • Make Love not Sangha.
    Stay away from dharma intoxicants for sakes sake.
    Move to the extremes of the Middle Way.

    Ikkyu.
    Bless you.
    DaltheJigsaw
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    lobster said:

    Make Love not Sangha.
    Stay away from dharma intoxicants for sakes sake.
    Move to the extremes of the Middle Way.

    Ikkyu.
    Bless you.

    Middle Way indeed! Seems to be the only answer from what I can figure. Lol.
  • LeonBasin said:

    Most Westerners who become fascinated with Zen Buddhism are intrigued with its reputation as an anti-authoritarian, freedom-loving, individualistic tradition. Books by excellent writers like Alan Watts popularized an image of Zen as a very relaxed, go-with-the-flow type of religion. But even a brief visit to a typical Zen temple is enough to make us painfully aware of the difference between hype and reality. Life in real Zen temples, in fact, is often so structured, regimented and heavily regulated as to quickly dispel the romanticism created by much of the literature about it. Far from being a hippie rendition of Buddhism, Zen discipleship can be demanding and severe.

    But sometimes even misguided stereotypes are born from seeds of truth. Enter 15th century Japanese monk Ikkyu Sojun, who was truly as free, wild and allergic to authorities as advertised.

    For Ikkyu, Zen was not a spontaneous calling. Rather, he stumbled upon it as an alternative to being murdered in infancy. Given that choice, Zen training didn’t seem so bad after all. Ikkyu, in fact, was the illegitimate son of the emperor of Japan, and the object of several conspiracies aimed at thinning out the ranks of potential candidates to the throne. In an effort to have his life spared, his mother entrusted him to a Zen monastery when he was only 5 years old: not the most fun-filled scenario for a little boy, but clearly more appealing than having angry assassins slicing you to pieces.

    His early life was extremely tough since the training he received from the Zen monks was brutally stern. Despite some serious bouts of depression in this joyless environment, it became quickly clear to his teachers that Ikkyu possessed an amazing intellect, and that his grasp of Zen was unparalleled. But the fact that he excelled in this setting didn’t mean he felt at home in it. Despite genuinely loving Zen (or perhaps because of it), he was less than thrilled with the spiritual bureaucracy of the temples. Also, many of the priests bugged him: too many political games and too much time spent courting the favor of rich patrons. And so when the day came when his master presented him with a certificate of enlightenment—which was both a great honor and the necessary document to begin climbing the Zen hierarchy—Ikkyu promptly decided to wave goodbye to a monastic career and burned it.

    This doesn’t mean he had given up on Zen. Far from it. In his thinking, it was the entire Zen establishment that had abandoned real Zen by turning it into a dogmatic parody of what it was supposed to be. Life in the temples was stifled by too many rules and not enough fresh air. The so-called professionals of Zen were in Ikkyu’s eyes a bunch of posers—too busy acting “spiritual” to be able to really taste spirituality in its rawest forms. Some people believed Zen enlightenment could only be found among clouds of incense in silent meditation. Ikkyu, on the other hand, found sake-drinking and wild sex more to his liking. As he put it in his poems, “The autumn breeze of a single night of love is better than a hundred thousand years of sterile sitting meditation.” Or, even more bluntly, “Don’t hesitate: get laid—that’s wisdom. Sitting around chanting sutras: that’s crap.” Driven by an uncompromising thirst for life, Ikkyu became a wandering monk, testing his Zen insights far away from the seclusion of the monasteries, and earning the nickname of “Crazy Cloud.”

    The point of his erotic escapades and wild adventures was to suggest that the “sacred” is nothing other than regular life experienced with 100 percent awareness. Or perhaps, sake-drinking and inordinate amounts of sex didn’t need any justification at all other than the fact that they were a hell of a lot of fun. Ikkyu didn’t give a rat’s ass about what the religious authorities of his day thought of him anyway. But in the course of his travels, Ikkyu managed to influence great numbers of artists, poets, calligraphers, musicians, and actors in such a way that his ideas left a deep mark on the development of several Japanese art forms for centuries to come. Even his love life came to be celebrated through the ages, since his relationship with Lady Mori ended up being among the most famous romances in Japanese history.

    But since good old Ikkyu was a man who loved paradoxes, when a civil war had destroyed most Zen temples in the country, he came to the rescue of the very institutions he had ferociously criticized. Just when the future of Zen seemed in peril, he was able to enlist the help of the many acquaintances he had met during a lifetime of travels and mobilized them into rebuilding some of the key temples throughout the country. So, oddly enough, much of modern Zen owes a huge debt for its existence to a man who preferred the company of hookers to that of monks.

    http://www.disinfo.com/2011/12/sex-sake-and-zen/

    Venerable IKKYU's actions are targetted toward certain types of people. Most us living in the 21st century first world nation are already over sexed (mind and body, or mind, or body), over ate, overly self-centred, overly emotional, overly arrogant, overly anti-authoritarian, overly self-opinioned.

    Alan Watt's advice should not be considered seriously other than getting you interested in Buddhism.

    This line of thinking is even more harmful for urban hippies than ya normal Joe.

    I know all of this is negativity, but oh wellllll

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