Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Best defense? Don't be there

LincLinc Site ownerDetroit Moderator
edited September 2012 in Buddhism Basics
Best defense? Don't be there
JasontmottesBrianjessie70BeejDaltheJigsawWolfwoodCoryriverflowDavidJohnG

Comments

  • sovasova delocalized fractyllic harmonizing Veteran
    very insightful, thanks for posting this
    Zayl
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran
    edited September 2012
    Yup. I recently had a moment where this rings very true. I reacted to something in life that I had done very well to ignore and/or subtract myself from, but in a moment of total unawareness I let this something almost hit me full force and I had a subsequent reaction. My reaction was different than in the past, and I can thank my practice for that, but I still reacted. You could say that I used the defensive hard block, where in the past I would have gone balistic and gotten caught up in a battle that has no real victors. I realised that I have made progress in this life, but still have a long way to go. Next time, I plan to dodge it all together. Thanks, @Lincoln. Your analogy is apt. Very apt indeed.
  • tmottestmottes Veteran
    edited September 2012
    @Lincoln thanks for sharing. This really rings true for me; although I had bits and pieces of it, having it all in a concise post really solidifies it for me :) I find that my ego wants to get hit sometimes and on a superficial level my buddhist practice has done a good job of forcing me to move out of the way. I want to allow my practice to sink deep and make moving out of the way my initial and only reaction.
  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Alternative lifestyle person in the South Island of New Zealand New Zealand Veteran
    edited September 2012
    I'm about to start a new job... as a Parking Warden! I think I will need to focus on practising this Not Being There.
    Metta, Karuna, Upekkha, and a bit of old-fashioned thick skin.
    Brian
  • tmottestmottes Veteran
    @JamestheGiant

    haha... I bet you will. Have you ever seen that show about Parking Enforcers in the US? I believe it is called parking wars or something like that.
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    I absolutely loved this. It expresses what I've felt for some time but was never able to articulate. If the ego is not there, then there is nothing for the insult to strike. So much better than the "Oh yeah, well so's your Mama!" type deflection.

  • Telly03Telly03 Veteran
    I like it... the problem I have with the analogy is that if you take a physical punch, you feel it, the damage can't be denied. If you visualize yourself dodging the verbal attack though by not responding, the challenge is in being honest with yourself... are you really dodging the damage, or denying and masking it? If it is that later, you may have to face it later in a more confusing way.
  • FrancisXYZFrancisXYZ
    Wait. How do you "move" when it is your ear (or eye) that has already heard/seen the words. The "hit" has been made already. Move where, then?
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    FrancisXYZ said:

    Wait. How do you "move" when it is your ear (or eye) that has already heard/seen the words. The "hit" has been made already. Move where, then?

    The blow is to the ego, not your nervous system.

    poptartDavid
  • Janet
    This experience lead to my recent interest in the Buddhist path. I was attacked by a couple of members on a community site, via posts on a discussion board, for absolutely no reason at all. My first reaction was as you had described. I 'blocked' with my own onslaught of sarcasm and before I knew it, I was engaged in a war of words with perfect strangers. I promptly removed myself from both the discussion board and the community site. I began my search for a more compassionate and more gentle walk of life. Thank you this wonderful gift of insightfulness.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Welcome, hope you join us. We'll look after you. There's safety in numbers.... :)
  • zenffzenff Veteran
    Telly03 said:

    I like it... the problem I have with the analogy is that if you take a physical punch, you feel it, the damage can't be denied. If you visualize yourself dodging the verbal attack though by not responding, the challenge is in being honest with yourself... are you really dodging the damage, or denying and masking it? If it is that later, you may have to face it later in a more confusing way.

    Maybe “not responding” is like running away. That can sometimes be a smart thing to do, but it is not always the best approach.

    In my job I had some training in dealing with conflicts. One important idea is that when someone gets angry you don’t get angry back at them; that will make things worse. But it can help to name the emotion and talk about that. “I see that this subject really upsets you.”
    You can understand why people get upset, and show you understand it. While doing so you diverted the subject of the conversation from you being such a whatever-it-is-they-called-you.
    Jeffrey
  • FoursquareFoursquare New
    Very true, Lincoln. Life is like a street-fight.
  • kristin_chankristin_chan New
    Hi, I'm new here. This is the first article i read and it was great.

    Well, I practiced Aikido as self defense. Every time we get attack, we were trained to be calm and get out of the way (hitting point). After that we have choices in our hand, whether to run away, to hit back, or to paralyze the enemy. But yet, we were always recommend to go with the 3rd option. We were taught many ways to lock the enemy, to dominate and take control over the situation.

    So as in our daily life, in facing problem. It's best to always stay clam, with calm minded, we can clearly think of the solution. Even when the solution is not there, we can take control over ourself, not drown into the problem.

    Thank you, lincoln for the great article.
    Sile
  • Lisa
    thankyou
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    " We see ourselves Enlightened, on a brightly lit platform, beaming out love and compassion to a grateful group of admirers.
    There is just one problem with this scenario. When Enlightenment happens...* we * wont be there "

    Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche.
    JeffreyPrairieGhost
  • Tahlia Newland
    Wow.This is my first time here and I'm coming back, because this post is right up my ally. I love analogy as a way of helping us remember the teachings, and my novel for teens on (dharma) solutions for bullying has this scene I love where a martial arts trained boy does exactly this. He keeps stepping aside, so the guy trying to punch him ends up defeating himself with his own anger.
    My teacher, Sogyal Rinpoche, often shows this principal by holding up two fists and knocking them together, then he takes one away. It takes two to turn it into a fight.

    Telly03 has a good point - don't deny or mask what you feel though, notice it and let it go. Just like in meditation practice.
    David
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    There's a sutra where Buddha is insulted. He says (iirc) "If someone offers you some spoiled food and you decline the food who does it belong to?"

    Then the disciple says that the food belongs to the one who offered. Next Buddha said that the insults did not belong to him, rather they belonged to the one who gave them. So the problem is that we attach to the insult rather than seeing that it is just a confusion or aggression or whatever.
    The_Dharma_Farmer
  • Pedro
    Hello Lincoln,

    I believe the best defence/attack is with Love. It may sound vague and naif but when you access the deepest love energy in you you access unlimited resources, unlimited defence, unlimited power.

    I find myself commentating on a blog at this moment where my initial intention was to spread the word about a fundraising campaign I'm helping organising for a good friend of mine which wants to heal from Crohn's "dis-ease" through the "alternative" path and share it with the world for free.

    Also we are screening Road to Peace Documentary by director Leon Stuparich in Lewis, near Brighton on the 7th of October (next Sunday for those who are distracted):

    "Road to Peace follows the Dalai Lama as he travels around Great Britain, sharing his spiritual and humanitarian message with the West.
    This intimate documentary candidly reveals his nature and wisdom, and shows how he inspires millions of people of all nationalities and creeds to live more meaningful lives in harmony with each other and with the planet on which we live.
    For the first time ever on film, this unique portrait captures the simple, human and humorous side of the Dalai Lama and reveals his personal and powerful legacy for future generations.



    I hope you wouldn't mind to approve this comment on your blog. I would really appreciate it... and by the way whatever you decide to do is how it is. No attachments to it Lincoln.
    Thanks.
    Big love,
    Pedro Dantas Cardoso.
    Silelobster
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited October 2012
    Jeffrey said:

    There's a sutra where Buddha is insulted. He says (iirc) "If someone offers you some spoiled food and you decline the food who does it belong to?"

    Then the disciple says that the food belongs to the one who offered. Next Buddha said that the insults did not belong to him, rather they belonged to the one who gave them. So the problem is that we attach to the insult rather than seeing that it is just a confusion or aggression or whatever.

    Sounds a lot like SN 7.2.
  • JindaJinda New
    Amazing how all this is so relevant to me right now. I've never really had problems with attacks on my ego because I am so self assured and nobody can take away my self worth. But how do you deal with it if someone you love feels the pain? In my case it's a bitter ex. Not even a proper relationship, an. Ex fling who expected wanted more now turned slanderous liar whose lies don't hurt me directly but really hurt my gf
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    Unknown has said it well.
    Be there before the attack with an alternative 'strike' of goodwill.

    pre-emptive Buddhism
    Do good without mercy.
    Dissipate the arisings of others.
    Transform and redirect the energy . . .
    Always be there, with something better . . .
    :)
    PrairieGhosthowJeffrey
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    There is nowhere to be...and no one to be there.
    One social construct is not better than another.
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    Jeffrey said:

    There's a sutra where Buddha is insulted. He says (iirc) "If someone offers you some spoiled food and you decline the food who does it belong to?"

    Then the disciple says that the food belongs to the one who offered. Next Buddha said that the insults did not belong to him, rather they belonged to the one who gave them. So the problem is that we attach to the insult rather than seeing that it is just a confusion or aggression or whatever.

    Oh, I love that little story embedded in the sutras. I call it Buddha's "I'm rubber, you're glue" moment. I can see all of Buddha's posse saying, "Oh, zing! Way to tell him, Buddha!"
    VastmindJeffrey
  • dudelove21dudelove21 New
    I'm brand new. And, when I say that, I just don't mean, "new to the site". After years of being intrigued, only today did I open my eyes, ears, and heart enough to really receive these beautiful principles. After a lifetime of being frustrated by what I thought I knew, it was only when I read this post that I realized what I didn't know. I feel a cleansing that only can be described as a rebirth...I'm brand new. Hello, friends. I look forward to walking with you.
    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    :clap:
    Walk gently.
  • declan
    Great post. Particularly in relation to Social Media. I find myself brooding on irrelevant comments and reacting to them. I've tried blocking users who annoyed me, but your response is better and wiser. Step out of the way and don't feel the need to react.
  • tmomerlingtmomerling
    This is a great topic, my first as a new member. I am struggling with my own responses and have tried looking at this from so many different angles. When I looked at it from interconnectedness I realized that my own angry responses were in part responsible for the initial hurtful statements. Where I am struggling is how to continue in a family unit where one spouse is hurtful toward another. I can't just continue to walk away and not be present. While I do walk away, I don't know what to do when I return?
    Thanks for the great topic and responses
  • EnriqueSpainEnriqueSpain New
    Gassho to everyone!
    This post is so enlightening.
    It´s better not to be there that get entangled in useless fights.

    Great article, Lincoln, and congratulations to your martial Arts teacher!
    Bye from Spain :)
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    "You would play me, you would seem to know my stops..."
    Some famous guy said that and it is true for me here. I do not expect to be able to divert all punches ,or avoid them, and then we will have to fight.
    Physically I am doomed as there is little fight in me. My voice is hard to silence, the wrong voice I mean, the reactive one. I do want to be better in this and your writing hits home.
    Thanks
  • John_SpencerJohn_Spencer Veteran
    Turning the other cheek is not a martial arts move.
  • Vinnie Tan
    Personally I do not believe by running away from the problem, the problem would be solved. There are many instances where we have to speak up at that moment for the issue to be solved.

    However, for controlling our anger, I believe it is something that we have the control over. We will be able to see things from different angles. Most of the time we choose the angle that is negative. Once we are able to look over at the negative and see the positive points, we will not feel so lousy.

    There is an great inspirational piece of article about our anger, and the effects to it.
    http://blog.tsemtulku.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/inspiration-worthy-words/anger.html
  • SeveralSeveral
    Salaam. This is my first post.
    Strategically it is not good to rely on a method of response, but to vary the response. This is itself one way of 'not being there' as habitual reactions can be predicted and attacks will hit you. It also requires mindfulness of being in the moment to achieve.
    For example, dodge an attack and relocate to a position from which you could retaliate, but do not. Your opponent realises what you could have struck but chose not to. This not only makes them think twice in the future, but demonstrates higher moral value.
    Next time hold your ground and recieve the attack when others are there to witness it. Again, do not retaliate. The more unjust the assault the more likely one or more of those witnesses will come to your aid. Then you neutralise the situation by quelling conflict between them.
    If you hard block and/or pin the opponent through reflex immediately withdraw just beyond strike range and apologise. The action demonstrates dominance and the speech gives them the opportunity to honourably desist.
    Above all do not become angry, and remember that anyone is only a moment away from laughter. Humour is an excellent defence.
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    If you thought this was about running from problems, you missed the point.
    riverflow
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    This rings true to me in light of defending myself but I have it locked into my way that the path of least harm is how to go. If I don't do something to stop somebody from harming an intended victim, they can go and do more harm...

    This is where I have a problem with not being there... I can't love you if I am not here for you.
    how
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    Yeah, been doing this for a good deal of my life, so I can attest it's the thing to do. See, I'm one of those people who is really hard to get angry. I may get frustrated, or annoyed, etc. But very rarely do I get legit angry. But when I do I tend to get physically violent. So I've learned to control that anger by just not being there. I just walk away from the situation, or mentally tune it out (I'll seriously just start listening to a song in my head or something)

    I control my anger, by not staying in a situation where I can get angry in the first place. Works like a charm, for the most part.
  • ninjedininjedi
    I practice martial arts and this is exactly what my teacher preaches.
  • Dennis1Dennis1 Veteran
    In Tai Chi you use substantial and insubstantial with breathing in and out. "In action watch the timing. In thought watch the balance." thanks, nice post.
  • Dennis1Dennis1 Veteran
    Jinda: I understand. People have asked me: I don't suffer much so the 4 truths don't apply to me. I think they are just looking at self. When you look around there is a lot of suffering. As your enlightened awareness grows you see that suffering more and it effects you as hard or harder than self suffering because often you can do nothing to help. I think this is where equanimity comes in but I try to do something.
    And so far (I'm 66), I haven't developed equanimity. I don't mind the tears but the powerlessness is hard. So I work to improve my skillful means and hope I will learn to shed more light. Good luck with your gf. Let her know your love and sincerity and maybe she will understand. Best
  • Dennis1Dennis1 Veteran
    Hello Dude: Great fortune. Welcome.
Sign In or Register to comment.