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Caffeine and Meditation

BunksBunks Australia Veteran
Any thoughts on this?

I normally have a strong coffee to start the day then meditate not too long after. I tried holding off on the coffee until after meditation and found my mind settled a little easier (although it felt a little fuzzy).

Would be interested to hear others experience...

Comments

  • just say no ;)

    http://amazingdiscoveries.org/H-deception-health-coffee-drinking-caffeine-risk

    My name is Lobster and I am an addict (in recovery)
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran
    lobster said:

    just say no ;)

    http://amazingdiscoveries.org/H-deception-health-coffee-drinking-caffeine-risk

    My name is Lobster and I am an addict (in recovery)

    That's just because American coffee is s**t!! ;)
  • not sure if any monk uses coffee
    to help them stay alert.
    monks in china have been using
    tea to stay alert for hundreds of years.
    Bunks
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran
    Bunks said:

    lobster said:

    just say no ;)

    http://amazingdiscoveries.org/H-deception-health-coffee-drinking-caffeine-risk

    My name is Lobster and I am an addict (in recovery)

    That's just because American coffee is s**t!! ;)
    In all seriousness though, I think a small amount of caffeine (I probably overdo it myself) is ok. Everything in moderation (the middle way?)......
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Gentle Man Veteran
    I am a weaning myself kind of caffeinaholic. Thus moderation I agree with.
  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Alternative lifestyle person in the South Island of New Zealand New Zealand Veteran
    I was having trouble focussing during the 4am meditation sitting at my local monastery.
    I thought coffee might help.
    I was WRONG!

    I tried it for a couple of days, a coffee just before the meditation to wake me up, and the result was a whirl of thoughts, agitation, restlessness and frenetic distraction.
    Not helpful. So I stopped the coffee and just changed my meditation technique to fit my energy-level of that time of day. That worked well.

    But I do know several monks who drink a strong coffee after lunch, so they aren't tempted to have an afternoon snooze.
    Bunks
  • Bunks said:

    lobster said:

    just say no ;)

    http://amazingdiscoveries.org/H-deception-health-coffee-drinking-caffeine-risk

    My name is Lobster and I am an addict (in recovery)

    That's just because American coffee is s**t!! ;)
    Depends where you get it. Have you tried Starbucks coffee?
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran
    Jeffrey said:

    Bunks said:

    lobster said:

    just say no ;)

    http://amazingdiscoveries.org/H-deception-health-coffee-drinking-caffeine-risk

    My name is Lobster and I am an addict (in recovery)

    That's just because American coffee is s**t!! ;)
    Depends where you get it. Have you tried Starbucks coffee?
    That is pretty much what I was referring to @Jeffrey! Like drinking sump oil......

    They tried to penetrate the Australian market but thankfully most of them closed down. The only people who frequent those still open seem to be teenagers who think it's cool to drink a caramel cream skinny latte with chocolate topping!
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    Please don't judge American coffee by that burnt slop that is Starbucks.

    There's a strong anti-corporate movement in American coffee. It's been referred to as the "Third Wave". All fair trade, roasting taken to a Zen-like level, very close attention paid to single origins, highly educated coffee drinkers, and a wide variety of brewing methods all designed to really take coffee appreciation to the highest level.

    If you ever the chance to visit Detroit, I will personally make you some of the best coffee you've ever had. That's a promise :)
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran
    Thanks @Brian.....I might take you up on that one day.

    After about a month in Denver I found a place called Peet's that made a nice coffee.

    I watched a great doco a few years ago about the Third Wave you mention in your post. It's called The Perfect Cappuccino......a nice film. Quite funny!

    http://www.cappuccinomovie.com/
    Brian
  • I can't drink a lot of caffeine -- bad things would happen, and yes, it would definitely affect mediation (not to mention most other activities). I normally avoid nondecaf coffee as well as soft drinks. I'm pretty safe with tea unless I really go overboard. I'm a little over caffeinated at the moment since I'm trying to get rid of this stupid headache. People react differently to various substances, so I imagine that this would be a very individual thing.
    Bunks
  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    Meditation is the activity of a practise whether walking, standing or sitting.
    It is the facing of and letting go of our attachments.
    If one has an attachment to a stimulant, who is fooling who, when ingesting
    it in preparation of a meditation to let it go..
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    A single cup of normal coffee won't affect me. Beyond that, and I better be willing to clean my house, floor to ceiling or exercise. I can't imagine trying to meditate in that condition, but whatever works for some people!
    If you find that caffeine calms you, you might actually find that you have a mild form of ADD/ADHD. On the rare occasion my son (10) is away without having taken his meds, a higher dose of caffeine has the same effect as his meds, which are also a stimulant. Not saying you have add/adhd, just possible you have a similar style personality. While stimulant wakes others up, for those who are already high strung or "hyper" stimulants has the effect of calming them.
  • jaffna coffee may be available if you have access to a Tamil Store. It is similar to masala tea, a sort of 'masala coffee'. Tried it on a family addict. He liked. Milder but more fragrant . . .

    :)
    Bunks
  • If I drink coffee or most types of tea I end up having to visit the toilet within 10-30 minutes. fun fun fun
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    Bunks said:

    Any thoughts on this?

    I normally have a strong coffee to start the day then meditate not too long after. I tried holding off on the coffee until after meditation and found my mind settled a little easier (although it felt a little fuzzy).

    Would be interested to hear others experience...

    is this because you are so use to having the coffee the body and mind is "craving" it first thing.. so your mind is fixated on it and therefore less settled?

    I've never been a coffee or tea drinker(at the monastery I drink hot cocoa/choc milk), I've never understood the whole " I need coffee to function thing" so I'm not much use in this thread, but I wanted to make the one observation.
  • You can wean yourself down from full-strength. Just have a cup of half-caff, or mix regular with decaff. Then from there, you can go to a cup of tea. I can only tolerate some caffeine-- I can't do Starbucks or anything like that. It makes me feel crazy. I find that if I drink iced tea at dinner, I can't go to sleep well. But, I find that it's really variable with the tea- some doesn't bother me. I drink hot herbal tea several times a day (naturally decaff).
  • I drink 2-3 cups of home brewed coffee every morning. Now and then I even drink a cup of coffee at night - between 7 and 9 pm with no issues about sleeping afterwards...

    I use gourmet coffees, usually from Hawaii, or Columbia, and sometimes flavored gourmet coffees. I buy it in 5 lb bags directly from a coffee distributor I met while working in a gourmet restaurant. He actually travels places, imports the beans, and then roasts and/or flavors his coffee beans himself before packaging and selling. GREAT stuff!

    Can I live without it? Yeah, I can and have gone without for weeks at a time. But why?



    Bunks
  • Clarification... I should have added (in keeping with the OP topic) that drinking coffee never affects my meditation. Coffee doesn't make me jumpy or restless... as a matter of fact, I'm just as lazy and as big a procrastinator WITH coffee as without. :o
    Bunks
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    Coffee or not, before sitting.

    I don't think that a mind that settles, compared to one that doesn't, means much in meditation. I get how one might feel more comfortable with one compared to the other but I think a meditation practise is about trying to be present with what is, not with what one prefers.
    karastiMaryAnneInvincible_summer
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran
    I am definitely addicted to caffeine. I get a headache and can't concentrate until I have one in the morning.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited February 2013
    There is nothing wrong with starbuck beans imho. The problem is that they brew it with a higher temperature water.

    But, no, I like my coffee strong as hell. Weak coffee actually extracts more bitterness due to the dilution. So the flavor/bitterness ratio is better with whole beans and strong amount of beans/water.

    Just my opinion. This (strong coffee) is also how germans like it from my experience. And I extrapolate to Italians ( @Federica , is this true?), and of course dark roast is a tradition of the french (french roast). I'm sorry but weak coffee is from the dark ages :lol:

    As far as mild versus dark roast I prefer... both!
    Bunks
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I'm one of those types that drinks their coffee so it's basically white. I add a ton of half n half to it. I'm not a huge coffee fan over all, and I'm not at all picky. I'll drink it from the gas station and McDonald's much more often than anywhere else because $7 on a cup of coffee is something I just can't do. I do drink caffeine regularly though, between pop and coffee and tea. So when I go more than 24 hours without it, I can tell.

    I did read a thing yesterday saying older people (I don't recall if they said how old) who drink 3 cups of coffee a day are less likely to die of heart disease and other cardiovascular stuff. I assume because of the dilating properties.
  • A double espresso is a cheap way to get caffeine at a bistro. You just slowly sip it. Obviously not a coffee suitable for lots of cream unless you ask for a larger cup to have the espresso in... a paper cup instead of an espresso cup.
  • I am a lover of a morning cup of coffee and an evening serving of dark chocolate. I do not see any correlation with my meditation experience other than that I feel better overall.

    But then again, I'm not one of those folks who drink 7-8 cups of coffee a day. That would be a problem, from what I'm hearing. But in moderation, methinks that tea, coffee and chocolate are those little things that help make day to day life more bearable. For what it's worth, there's always tea at our retreats.
  • karasti said:

    I'm one of those types that drinks their coffee so it's basically white. I add a ton of half n half to it. I'm not a huge coffee fan over all, and I'm not at all picky. I'll drink it from the gas station and McDonald's much more often than anywhere else because $7 on a cup of coffee is something I just can't do. I do drink caffeine regularly though, between pop and coffee and tea. So when I go more than 24 hours without it, I can tell.

    I did read a thing yesterday saying older people (I don't recall if they said how old) who drink 3 cups of coffee a day are less likely to die of heart disease and other cardiovascular stuff. I assume because of the dilating properties.

    WOW - for a change one of my vices is actually doing some GOOD ? ;-)
    karastilobster
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    edited February 2013
    Caffeine does the opposite thing to your brain as meditation, so I don't think it could possibly be helpful.
  • I wouldn't presume that there are 'better' and 'worse' meditation sessions. Though of course taking drugs can make us less happy.
    howlobster
  • caffeine is a diuretic.
    both coffee n tea contain caffeine.
    so tom, i will be worried if you dont go pee.

    If I drink coffee or most types of tea I end up having to visit the toilet within 10-30 minutes. fun fun fun

  • Why not do medicine Buddha practice to your lord and master - coffee. Cup the cup in your hands, chant and visualise the medicine Buddha entering the offering.

    Drink Buddha coffee for extra perks
    Straight_Man
  • No buddha gummy bears though ?? :p
    lobsterStraight_Man
  • Bunks said:

    Any thoughts on this?

    I normally have a strong coffee to start the day then meditate not too long after. I tried holding off on the coffee until after meditation and found my mind settled a little easier (although it felt a little fuzzy).

    Would be interested to hear others experience...

    Sounds to me like drugging yourself for meditation.
  • Historically speaking, Chinese and Japanese Buddhists have used caffeine to aid their meditation for centuries. I wish I could remember which prominent Japanese monk wrote it, but there was actually a small book written in praise of tea, as a magic elixir that grants energy to the weary.

    Yes, it can help, but it really depends on the quantity. I find green tea has just enough to keep me alert during long sessions. Coffee, on the other hand, gives me the jitters.
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited February 2013
    sometimes, during a sit, I am accompanied by 'Mr Green Tea'
    He sits nearby and I take the occasional mindful sip . . .
  • I meditate first in the morning, then i take coffee or tea.,
  • if you feel sleepy, take coffee, otherwise dont.
  • another great drink is 50% herbal tea with the rest fruit juice . . .
    . . . rather than nicotine patches, I am thinking of strapping a coffee bag to my wrist and taking the occasional sniff . . . :)
  • Not only tea, in Korea everyone buys little bottles of ginseng extract to make it through the day. The gutters are littered with them. They mostly get them from the numerous apothecary stores that we in the US military were banned from using, because what few drug laws they have are ignored and you never knew what sort of amphetamine-like concoction you could end up with.

  • Cinorjer said:

    Not only tea, in Korea everyone buys little bottles of ginseng extract to make it through the day. The gutters are littered with them. They mostly get them from the numerous apothecary stores that we in the US military were banned from using, because what few drug laws they have are ignored and you never knew what sort of amphetamine-like concoction you could end up with.

    Need that fix yo. I'm glad my digestive system cannot handle coffee as I probabky would be like millions of others who need it to wake up and get out of the door on time, or at all.
  • CoryCory Tennessee Veteran
    I only drink tea regularly. If I am to drink coffee it is on occasion. Tea is my only constant source of caffeine, and even then it's not enough to make me hyper.
  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Alternative lifestyle person in the South Island of New Zealand New Zealand Veteran
    how said:

    Coffee or not, before sitting.

    I don't think that a mind that settles, compared to one that doesn't, means much in meditation. I get how one might feel more comfortable with one compared to the other but I think a meditation practise is about trying to be present with what is, not with what one prefers.

    Unless you're going for Jhana or have a samatha oriented practise. In which case having a settled mind is of the utmost importance.
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