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It is very interesting how differently different Buddhist forums are oriented.
Yes, there is a wide spectrum, some forums tend to attract those of a skeptical disposition, some forums attract those with more traditional views. Much like the Buddhist traditions themselves.
The other possibility is that some people experience things in a different way, or are more sensitive. And looked at one way, the point of Buddhism practice is to experience things in a different way.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Sure I believe in spirits.
The spirit of the age... The spirit of togetherness, the spirit of forgiveness, giving, wakefulness. Even the spirit of ignorance, hate and fear.
When enough people share the same mindset it can be said a certain spirit manifests in the societal consciousness.
This is how I can be a 40 year old man and still believe in Santa.
The other possibility is that some people experience things in a different way, or are more sensitive. And looked at one way, the point of Buddhism practice is to experience things in a different way.
The other possibility is that some people experience things in a different way, or are more sensitive. And looked at one way, the point of Buddhism practice is to experience things in a different way.
Where did I say it is all self-delusion????
*I* said that.... and it was said in context of we all believe what we WANT to believe.....
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
*I* said that.... and it was said in context of we all believe what we WANT to believe.....
But equally we all disbelieve what we want to disbelieve. I think skepticism is healthy up to a point, but I'm dubious about the kind of relentless skepticism where people won't acknowledge possibilities, where people won't acknowledge the subjectivity of their own viewpoint. That rather patronising attitude of "It can't exist because I haven't experienced it, people who say they have experienced it are just deluded".
*I* said that.... and it was said in context of we all believe what we WANT to believe.....
But equally we all disbelieve what we want to disbelieve. I think skepticism is healthy up to a point, but I'm dubious about the kind of relentless skepticism where people won't acknowledge possibilities, where people won't acknowledge the subjectivity of their own viewpoint. That rather patronising attitude of "It can't exist because I haven't experienced it, people who say they have experienced it are just deluded".
If you re-read my post that included the "conclusion: IMO it's all self delusion" statement at the end, you will see that I came to that conclusion (opinion) not by way of "relentless skepticism" but by way of 35+ years of surrounding myself with others who believed in spirits, magic, and the supernatural - as well as being immersed in that belief and practice myself. You will also read in my original comment that I am not discounting EVERYTHING as far as Buddhist beliefs that fall into the realm of supernatural, etc. I said I was "on the fence" about them. Not exactly a relentless skepticism...
Not only did I -at one time- acknowledge the 'possibilities'... I believed in them. Now I mostly don't. Why? Because I now know better and it's been proven to me, time and time and time again that the vast majority of those spiritual manifestations, and those manipulations of reality through magic and spells etc were NOT as they were claimed to be.
I don't believe in spirits myself, but I've met a person who says she can see ghosts. She explained herself without sarcasm nor any hint of falsehood. She doesn't want to see them. They sometimes call to her, wanting her help. She tries to ignore them, cuz it freaks her out. It's hereditary because her grandmother could also see ghosts. She tends not to watch horror movies because of that.
I thought the detail she gave was interesting. Sometimes ghosts would appear cut off like a jpeg image that was just cut off at the legs. Some of them even knew her name. She would see them at random places. They seemingly appear anywhere, and they somehow know that she can see them.
Spirits are very much a part of cultures that are not Westernized. When I spent time in the heart of Mexico that is actually where I had my best and most undeniable encounters with a spirit. Everyone who I told my encounter to believed me and they had their own stories to share with me as well, that also happened in that house. The only person who didn't believe me was my Grandmother who was in denial out of fear. It took her actually fighting with the spirit physically to confess to my uncle that it was true that her house was haunted and that she had seen it several times. She is very Catholic, and she doesn't like talking about it for some reason.
But my great grandmother (99) who is also very Catholic very much acknowledges the spirits in her house. She has names for them, that I can't recall. But she has said there are several different spirits there, and she's right.
There is a male spirit there that wears boots, a female transparent spirit, tall shadow entities that come out at night, and spirits that interact with you physically that do not show themselves, yet according to my great grandmother they're like goblin spirits or small people. It's such a great place to be if you want to meet a spirit. Though the spirits are the least of your worries in that part of Mexico. The drug cartels make it pretty dangerous to be a tourist there.
A friend of mine, who is Mexican, has told me that whenever his grandmother visits from Mexico, weird things happen in his house. His grandmother can see spirits. And when he visits his grandmother in Mexico, weird things happen there.
So true about the drug cartels thing, the last time my friend went back to Mexico, I was worried for his safety because he was staying at his uncle's place, and his uncle is a cop.
The closest thing I had to a spirit possibly interacting with me was on my way home on a road trip. It was a clear day, mild weather, not windy at all. My car was the only car on my side of the highway. Out of nowhere, I heard a knocking sound on my back driver side window. It sounded very clear. It sounded like a person's bare knuckles knocking on glass. I heard the sound three times. I looked back, but saw nothing. A friend of mine was with me and I asked her if she heard the sound too, and she did. This was happening while the car was moving at around 70mph. No one was in the back seats, it was just the two of us. No clutter in the back seats either.
I pulled over to the side of the road to see if there was anything stuck to the car. Nothing.
A minute later, a highway patrol officer pulls over behind my car to ask if we were okay. We told him we heard a weird noise and wanted to check the car.
It is very interesting how differently different Buddhist forums are oriented.
Yes, there is a wide spectrum, some forums tend to attract those of a skeptical disposition, some forums attract those with more traditional views. Much like the Buddhist traditions themselves.
The hindu profound ascetic achiever then seen this realm, and the Buddha appearance was clarifying the rational behind the existence of this realm and other illusioned realms.
I do- and I think it's the most overlooked part of the holy trinity in Christianity. We always hear about the other two guys and the holy spirit gets shortchanged.
I do- and I think it's the most overlooked part of the holy trinity in Christianity. We always hear about the other two guys and the holy spirit gets shortchanged.
A ghost made holy, with a daddy made sacred and a son made more powerful than superman. They are rolled into one and also edible (eucharist). You need 'faith' to believe . . . Hope that helps . . . :rarr:
"If you wish to understand all Buddhas, you must view the universe as created by mind alone"- so we chant in my Sangha. I'm assuming that covers spirits as well.
Either I have to believe in them or accept that my own mind selectively creates visions of them. Most of them have had Dharmic lessons for me but without posters speaking of this subject, I wouldn't be thinking about them.
The 6 realms of samsara, if you are defining them as physical places/beings.
So where do you believe we reincarnate as after we die? If you believe in reincarnation in the first place? If not, what do you think happens to us when we die?
If not, what do you think happens to us when we die?
. . . You know how when you are asleep and no sense of Consciousness exists, well without a body and brain it is an educated possibility that consciouness ceases. All the rest is imagined by those with consciousness.
So where do you believe we reincarnate as after we die? If you believe in reincarnation in the first place? If not, what do you think happens to us when we die?
@sharonsaw, You do realise the difference between Reincarnation and re-birth, yes.....?
Rebirth doesn't exclusively refer to moment to moment rebirth. It also refers to rebirth without the personality sorta going to the next being. Like the tulkus can remember and select personal items such as a watch or whatever. They are reincarnated. But rebirth can refer to moment to moment OR a rebirth in another realm.
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DaftChrisSpiritually conflicted. Not of this world.Veteran
I personally don't believe in spirits, but I'm open to the idea of them.
A ghost made holy, with a daddy made sacred and a son made more powerful than superman. They are rolled into one and also edible (eucharist). You need 'faith' to believe . . . Hope that helps . . . :rarr:
Clear as mud. I never understood the "Holy Ghost". Oh well. Carry on.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
The Holy Ghost is far more comprehensible, if one relies upon the original translation, which would replace the word 'Ghost' with 'Spirit'.
Definitions of the word - which is an extremely versatile adjective - include
a. An inclination or tendency of a specified kind: b. A causative, activating, or essential principle
You've heard the word 'Spirit' used in certain other contexts, such as,
"Come on, put some effort into it, that's the Spirit!"
Or
"The Spirit of the argument is not who can do it, but whether it can be done at all!"
So while the term has been morphed into one meaning a supernatural, ephemeral and unseen phantasm, what it was originally actually intending to convey, was the volitional, encouraging, motivational essence of the faith one has, and which lies between, and links, God the father, and Christ the Son.
In essence, "The Holy Spirit" is the Unconditional Love that connects Father to Son, and them to their faithful followers.
The Holy Ghost is far more comprehensible, if one relies upon the original translation, which would replace the word 'Ghost' with 'Spirit'.
Definitions of the word - which is an extremely versatile adjective - include
a. An inclination or tendency of a specified kind: b. A causative, activating, or essential principle
You've heard the word 'Spirit' used in certain other contexts, such as,
"Come on, put some effort into it, that's the Spirit!"
Or
"The Spirit of the argument is not who can do it, but whether it can be done at all!"
So while the term has been morphed into one meaning a supernatural, ephemeral and unseen phantasm, what it was originally actually intending to convey, was the volitional, encouraging, motivational essence of the faith one has, and which lies between, and links, God the father, and Christ the Son.
In essence, "The Holy Spirit" is the Unconditional Love that connects Father to Son, and them to their faithful followers.
Comments
Liquor, also yes.
Much like the Buddhist traditions themselves.
And looked at one way, the point of Buddhism practice is to experience things in a different way.
The spirit of the age... The spirit of togetherness, the spirit of forgiveness, giving, wakefulness. Even the spirit of ignorance, hate and fear.
When enough people share the same mindset it can be said a certain spirit manifests in the societal consciousness.
This is how I can be a 40 year old man and still believe in Santa.
*I* said that.... and it was said in context of we all believe what we WANT to believe.....
It would be like pretending to like sushi when we don't.
If you re-read my post that included the "conclusion: IMO it's all self delusion" statement at the end, you will see that I came to that conclusion (opinion) not by way of "relentless skepticism" but by way of 35+ years of surrounding myself with others who believed in spirits, magic, and the supernatural - as well as being immersed in that belief and practice myself.
You will also read in my original comment that I am not discounting EVERYTHING as far as Buddhist beliefs that fall into the realm of supernatural, etc. I said I was "on the fence" about them. Not exactly a relentless skepticism...
Not only did I -at one time- acknowledge the 'possibilities'... I believed in them. Now I mostly don't. Why?
Because I now know better and it's been proven to me, time and time and time again that the vast majority of those spiritual manifestations, and those manipulations of reality through magic and spells etc were NOT as they were claimed to be.
I thought the detail she gave was interesting. Sometimes ghosts would appear cut off like a jpeg image that was just cut off at the legs. Some of them even knew her name. She would see them at random places. They seemingly appear anywhere, and they somehow know that she can see them.
So true about the drug cartels thing, the last time my friend went back to Mexico, I was worried for his safety because he was staying at his uncle's place, and his uncle is a cop.
I pulled over to the side of the road to see if there was anything stuck to the car. Nothing.
A minute later, a highway patrol officer pulls over behind my car to ask if we were okay. We told him we heard a weird noise and wanted to check the car.
I still haven't been able to explain that one.
All the rest is imagined by those with consciousness.
What fantasy have you thought up?
Definitions of the word - which is an extremely versatile adjective - include
You've heard the word 'Spirit' used in certain other contexts, such as,
"Come on, put some effort into it, that's the Spirit!"
Or
"The Spirit of the argument is not who can do it, but whether it can be done at all!"
So while the term has been morphed into one meaning a supernatural, ephemeral and unseen phantasm, what it was originally actually intending to convey, was the volitional, encouraging, motivational essence of the faith one has, and which lies between, and links, God the father, and Christ the Son.
In essence, "The Holy Spirit" is the Unconditional Love that connects Father to Son, and them to their faithful followers.
See?
Simple. ,
You've heard the word 'Spirit' used in certain other contexts, such as,
"Come on, put some effort into it, that's the Spirit!"
Or
"The Spirit of the argument is not who can do it, but whether it can be done at all!"
So while the term has been morphed into one meaning a supernatural, ephemeral and unseen phantasm, what it was originally actually intending to convey, was the volitional, encouraging, motivational essence of the faith one has, and which lies between, and links, God the father, and Christ the Son.
In essence, "The Holy Spirit" is the Unconditional Love that connects Father to Son, and them to their faithful followers.
See?
Simple. ,
This is enlightening. Thanks!