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Do Buddhists believe in Satan?

I don't really know much about Satan except from movies, as someone very evil and sinister. What is this Satan to you and do buddhists believe in the existence of Satan?
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Comments

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    Perhaps you should post this question on a Christian forum. The answers will be much more interesting!
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited January 2014
    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    I don't. I believe evil exists as the delusions in our mind and not as an actual being.
    One_of_dharma_ways
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Nope.

    This is heaven, and this is hell....

    ...fabrications of our own personal perceptions....
    VastmindOne_of_dharma_waysanatamanfootiam
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    federica said:

    Nope.

    This is heaven, and this is hell....

    ...fabrications of our own personal perceptions....

    :bowdown: Thank you @Federica
    shanyin
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    Satan would probably exist just as much as any other god and is just as deserving of compassion.

    Just imagine being a prisoner in somebody elses mind.
    anatamanKundocvalue
  • DandelionDandelion London Veteran
    Hmmm. I've met a few satans actually, lol. It was never funny at the time though I have to say. There is one guy that comes into the bakery where I work, and he absolutely terrifies me. It's more than just astonishing rudeness, I get a sense of something totally rotten about him. To me, he is a satan. It's like looking at a hell... and watching a demon when he starts terrifying the other customers. Thankfully I don't see him very often.

    anataman
  • jaejae Veteran
    @Dandelion.... I always feel compelled to start a conversation with people that frighten me, you usually find out they are ok, maybe its just me being nosy.

    I've found when people make themselves 'seem' or 'look' frightening its usually because they are as afraid as we are.. (then again I live in a small community and I may be seeing things differently)
    DandelionHamsakacvalueDaltheJigsaw
  • Satan is prince of lies. So the 4th precept helps.
    BhikkhuJayasaracvalue
  • DandelionDandelion London Veteran
    jae said:

    @Dandelion.... I always feel compelled to start a conversation with people that frighten me, you usually find out they are ok, maybe its just me being nosy.

    I've found when people make themselves 'seem' or 'look' frightening its usually because they are as afraid as we are.. (then again I live in a small community and I may be seeing things differently)

    You are braver than me, I just can't be around that sort of energy, I find it totally draining and rotten. It actually makes me feel ill. A few times when I've been around what to me, feels like a satan, I have ended up feeling so nauseous i've had to go to bed till I feel better.
  • jaejae Veteran
    @Dandelion.... I was on holiday in America somewhere and I saw this little pottery souvenir ..it said...

    'treat everyone you meet as if they were your child'....

    It really stuck in my head and when I feel myself being judgemental it pops up, then I feel more compassionately towards them.

    We never know how our kids will turn out, we do our best but I think we all feel the same when we think about how we would like others to treat them.
    lobsteranatamankarasticvalue
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    Buddhist evangelists often claim to have converted the local ethereal bad ass to the Buddha Dharma when ever they move into a new country. Many monasteries will even give them their own alter somewhere on the grounds.

    Pitty the poor etherial being trying to defend themselves against such slander?
    lobsteranatamancvalue
  • jaejae Veteran
    @how....sorry its late and the written world can often confuse me but what do you mean by

    'Pitty the poor etherial being trying to defend themselves against such slander?'
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    Dandelion said:

    jae said:

    @Dandelion.... I always feel compelled to start a conversation with people that frighten me, you usually find out they are ok, maybe its just me being nosy.

    I've found when people make themselves 'seem' or 'look' frightening its usually because they are as afraid as we are.. (then again I live in a small community and I may be seeing things differently)

    You are braver than me, I just can't be around that sort of energy, I find it totally draining and rotten. It actually makes me feel ill. A few times when I've been around what to me, feels like a satan, I have ended up feeling so nauseous i've had to go to bed till I feel better.
    First, @Jae . . . you are terribly courageous, more than you realize. And I agree with you, in that people who put out that kind of energy are at their core level, terrified and threatened, but by their own demons.

    @Dandelion, seven years ago as I was figuring out WHAT in the hell happened to my marriage, I came upon some literature about sociopathic people. It's a kind of personality disorder listed in the huge medical text of psychiatric disorders. It is the sort of personality without a conscience, ie, they don't feel guilty when they hurt someone else or do something morally wrong (according to their culture). They do whatever they need to do to get what they want, and it doesn't matter who gets hurt, they simply don't care. They don't see other people as 'real' people, only themselves are 'real' and worthy of respect.

    In that same reading bit, there was a couple of paragraphs about OTHER people's reactions to sociopathic people, and your description of how YOU feel is classic! Some of us are more sensitive than others, but almost everyone, if they get too close to them, feel drained, 'not quite right', uncomfortable, threatened, or have extreme 'gut' reactions to them.

    It's because we humans are social animals, and have 'mirror' neurons (well, most of us) that can perceive to a great degree the inner experience of others. When we experience the inner experience of someone sociopathic, it is VERY uncomfortable, like you are being observed for how tasty you might be roasted over a spit.

    This is one of my little soapboxes here . . . but always listen to your gut responses, they are almost always right. They are built into the system to protect you. It's why we jump up on the table when we see a spider on the floor :D . It's another thing to grow in your practice to have compassion for such a person, which is possible. Compassion at a DISTANCE, I might add.

    Sorry for the derail, back to your regularly scheduled "What would you be if you could" :)

    Gassho :)
    Dandelionanatamancvalue
  • Buddhists believe in hell realms, but there's no presiding Satan. Now, whether they believe those hell-realms to be real places or simply the hell we create for ourselves, or all in our minds, is something that differs from one Buddhist to another.
    anatamanVastmindcvalue
  • jaejae Veteran
    @Hamsaka....maybe I've just not to meet anyone that has that kind of personality disorder (if that's what you'd call it) also I have made some HUGE mistakes in my life (which I'm dealing with) and no matter what anyone else has done I simply am in no place to judge them... I wouldn't want anyone to have the understanding I have x
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I believe there may be such as thing as real evil, but I have doubts about the existence of Satan.
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    Oops, I totally forgot what thread I was in. I thought I was on @Jae's thread, so I guess I wasn't derailing after all :dunce:

    Anyway, Jae, I was NOT one of those who were sensitive in my 'gut' to sociopathic types. I married one. I understand the mistake part.

    As far as judging them, which I did not do to my own detriment, I guess now I DO judge them, in that I discern those qualities of sociopathy and then stay polite and distant. At the same time, I know that what creates a person with those capacities is not their fault, they think nowadays it is a difference in brain connections or 'missing' areas in the brain. Also, many never had a chance to develop empathy or respect for others due to lack of bonding with a parent. So I judge them as 'dangerous' but not as a lesser person, or 'beneath me'. Having had one nearly destroy my life I give myself that permission.

    I've made horrendous mistakes and done sociopathic things (ie, immoral, not concerned with consequences to others). The difference is I have deep regret and have repented, to use a Christian term. I do them or things like them no more, am not even tempted. So what I have done wrongly still doesn't come close to the kind of destructiveness of a person suffering from sociopathy. My (significant) lack of perfection does not mean I shouldn't judge or discern when I ought to steer clear of someone or some thing. But it is deeply wrong to place myself, in my own mind, 'above' them in terms of worth as a human being, which is what I think is usually meant by 'judging' others :)

    Gassho :)
    Dandelion
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    jae said:

    @Hamsaka....maybe I've just not to meet anyone that has that kind of personality disorder (if that's what you'd call it) also I have made some HUGE mistakes in my life (which I'm dealing with) and no matter what anyone else has done I simply am in no place to judge them... I wouldn't want anyone to have the understanding I have x

    But that understanding if skilfully passed on may be helpful to someone in similar circumstances @Jae, especially if you managed to overcome it without hurting others.

    Mettha
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    jae said:

    @how....sorry its late and the written world can often confuse me but what do you mean by
    'Pitty the poor etherial being trying to defend themselves against such slander?'

    Would not, publicly claiming that the Christian God of Hell, has now been converted to the Buddhist truth, the light and the way....be not only slanderous but pretty much undefendable to such a being.

    @jae
    I think that attributing human strengths and failings to a separate persona or entity has only separated us from really taking responsibilities for them.
    I need not look outside my own being for aspects of anything imaginable.


    HamsakaTheswingisyellowkarasticvalue
  • jaejae Veteran
    @Hamsaka......from what I've read from your kind and helpful posts you seem like a wonderful person and it would be a pleasure to meet you one day. I wouldn't think for a moment that you were a judgemental type, sorry if my answer seemed that way x

    Maybe when I said 'I'm in no place to judge them' what I really mean is that I want to share with them that no matter what has happened there is hope, I thinks that's why I like to get to know people that others will steer clear of, I can see their pain xx
    Hamsaka
  • jaejae Veteran
    @anataman.... I would really like to think so ....with all my heart.

    Can I ask you what you mean by 'without hurting others' sorry its late I may be being dim!
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    What is Satan ?
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    No I wasn't clear enough - you said 'I wouldn't want anyone to have the understanding I have'

    Well my point was simply that you had alluded to making mistakes in your life and are still dealing with them and basically felt you were in no place to judge anyone. That shows an element of self-reflection, and if you have overcome various problems with that attitude, the way you did it may be helpful to others who find themselves in similar positions. If such overcoming was accomplished without generating ill-will, that would be a truly helpful position to be in for the benefit of others.
    jae
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited January 2014
    A political tool for keeping Christians fearful of questioning God (and/ or the organizations that represent him).
    jaeHamsakaanatamancvalue
  • Imagine you were totally shellfish, closed as a clam.
    . . . sorry wrong forum . . .
    Imagine you were totally selfish and happy about that . . .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

    Are such people bankers, 'satanic', world leaders, bakery visitors, needing treatment?

    The two people who classed themself exclusively as 'satanists' that I have met both had mental health issues. One had just come out of hospital, one needed to go in. One was a follower of Thelema and Louise and one has converted to Christianity. I had no sense of evil from them.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelema

    In Magickal Buddhism it is not unusual for practitioners to be given wrathful aspects of karma/hindrances to resonate with, bring up and dissolve. What fun for those unwilling to sit with their good and bad angles/Angels.

    Satan features very much as a reflection in Sufism. I regularly bring Satan up to scare the faithless.

    In Buddhism we come across conflicted and stressful emotive states. Lovely stuff for us to reflect on . . . not be underwhelmed by . . .

    image
    jaeKundoanatamancvalue
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    jae said:

    @Hamsaka......from what I've read from your kind and helpful posts you seem like a wonderful person and it would be a pleasure to meet you one day. I wouldn't think for a moment that you were a judgemental type, sorry if my answer seemed that way x

    Maybe when I said 'I'm in no place to judge them' what I really mean is that I want to share with them that no matter what has happened there is hope, I thinks that's why I like to get to know people that others will steer clear of, I can see their pain xx

    When you say "I'm in no place to judge them", the word 'judge' seems to mean 'negatively appraise them', which you do not do, and that is a beautiful quality in a person :) I really do get that from you.

    The funny thing is, at work, when we get a mentally ill patient, I always get assigned to them if their mental illness is challenging our ability to deliver medical care. Their active mental illness stuff doesn't bother me at all, it inspires compassion more than anything, but I'm so familiar with the symptoms having worked as a psych nurse for so long.

    It's the people who strike me as cold and cruel and as enjoying other's pain . . . those are the ones I know INTELLECTUALLY are devastated inside, but having been really injured by one, I just can't go there yet.

    Supposedly, the latter sort of person is mentally ill, too. They tend to end up in prison rather than the hospitals I used to work in.

    If you can see their pain and still wish to reach out, bless you a million times. I just finished watching Dhamma Brothers, a documentary about a Vipassana meditation program inside of one of the worst US prisons. I think you would like that film a lot, I recommend it highly :)

    Gassho :)
  • jaejae Veteran
    @Hamsaka...good morning I'm so glad you understand me, thank you.

    I'm so sorry to hear you have had that frightening and painful experience I understand why you feel that way.

    Reflecting on this I've probably been fortunate not to have met anyone with that degree of suffering/mental illness... they say ignorance is bliss, maybe I'm just naive.

    I will watch that film and you are right ... I do enjoy programmes like that x
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    footiam said:

    What is this Satan to you and do buddhists believe in the existence of Satan?

    Most Buddhists don't believe in God, so are unlikely to believe in Satan.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/budgod.html

    An interesting take on the "do Buddhists believe in God" question
  • jaejae Veteran
    @vinlyn...thanks for the link, informative and easy to understand from a beginners point of view.
    vinlyn
  • <
    Jason said:

    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.

    Something like some superheroes in Stan Lee's Marvel Comics?
  • matthewmartinmatthewmartin Amateur Bodhisattva Suburbs of Mt Meru Veteran
    I believe in Seitan. It is real and real yummy.

    I'm currently working on re-interpreting the Boddhisatvas as Heros, their vows as Heroic goals-- i.e. a model to copy (I don't have much use for them devotionally, and I'm not sure I grok the use of a evil being in a purely devotional religion). So Mara would be the opposite of a Hero, a model sort of like the father in the Bernstein Bears kids book, who keep trying to explain something, screws it up and finally says, "that's how you don't do it"
  • @matthewmartin, could you say more about the sects of Buddhism that have Bodhisattvas? You mentioned that the Bodhisattvas are purely devotional. Where did you get that information?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I think the original question is faulty. Buddhists believe all sorts of things.

    If phrased, "Does Buddhism teach that there is a Satan?" it would be more appropriate.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    footiam said:

    <

    Jason said:

    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.

    Something like some superheroes in Stan Lee's Marvel Comics?
    I was thinking more like Dante's Paradise Lost, but sure.
  • Jason said:

    footiam said:

    <

    Jason said:

    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.

    Something like some superheroes in Stan Lee's Marvel Comics?
    I was thinking more like Dante's Paradise Lost, but sure.
    You mean Milton? :(
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    @Jason
    Jason said:

    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.

    I assume that you feel the same way about Buddhist deities.


  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited January 2014
    betaboy said:

    Jason said:

    footiam said:

    <

    Jason said:

    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.

    Something like some superheroes in Stan Lee's Marvel Comics?
    I was thinking more like Dante's Paradise Lost, but sure.
    You mean Milton? :(
    lol, yes. I meant Milton's Paradose Lost. I don't know why I always mix the two up.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    how said:

    @Jason

    Jason said:

    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.

    I assume that you feel the same way about Buddhist deities.


    Assume what you like. :)
  • how said:

    @Jason

    Jason said:

    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.

    I assume that you feel the same way about Buddhist deities.


    One doesn't have to believe in the Buddhist deities to be a Buddhist. In fact, one doesn't even to believe in the Buddha to be a Buddhist.
  • betaboy said:

    how said:

    @Jason

    Jason said:

    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.

    I assume that you feel the same way about Buddhist deities.


    One doesn't have to believe in the Buddhist deities to be a Buddhist. In fact, one doesn't even to believe in the Buddha to be a Buddhist.
    One doesn't need to be Buddhist to believe in Buddhism.
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited January 2014
    Jason said:

    how said:

    @Jason

    Jason said:

    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.

    I assume that you feel the same way about Buddhist deities.


    Assume what you like. :)

    @Jason
    Not a surprising answer from a god emperor but beyond your avatar's character......
    Does your posted view (one that I share) applied equally to Christian and Buddhist deity's?
  • It says in the Tara that he'll is only a place a very sick time of mind and not something you can truly be forced into by a action without thought.
  • Fear keeps butts in the pews and money in the collection plate.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    how said:

    Jason said:

    how said:

    @Jason

    Jason said:

    Satan to me is a misunderstood anti-hero. He exists as an archtype or principle, but nothing more concrete than that.

    I assume that you feel the same way about Buddhist deities.


    Assume what you like. :)

    @Jason
    Not a surprising answer from a god emperor but beyond your avatar's character......
    Does your posted view (one that I share) applied equally to Christian and Buddhist deity's?
    If you want to get technical, I'd say I'm more or less agnostic when it comes the actually existence of gods, heavenly beings, etc. That said, I do generally tend to view them as allegories, metaphors, and teaching aids in most contexts. Take Mara, for example, the Buddhist equivalent to the Devil who often makes an appearance in order to tempt, tease, and test the Buddha and his disciples.

    It's true that, in some cases, he's portrayed as an actual being who apparently considers himself the head of the kamavacara (literally 'sensuous sphere') world, especially by traditionalists who tend to take a more literalist approach. Nevertheless, looking at the texts more critically, it's evident that, in most contexts, Mara is used in reference to death, the psychological clinging to the aggregates that gives rise to suffering, or to the mental defilements of greed, hatred, and delusion.

    In regard to the story of the Buddha being assailed by the hosts of Mara under the Bodhi tree prior to his enlightenment, for example, G. P. Malalasekera's entry in the Dictionary of Pali Names states:
    That this account of the Buddha's struggle with Māra is literally true, none but the most ignorant of the Buddhists believe, even at the present day. The Buddhist point of view has been well expressed by Rhys Davids (Article on Buddha in the Ency. Brit.). We are to understand by the attack of Mara's forces, that all the Buddha's
    "old temptations came back upon him with renewed force. For years he had looked at all earthly good through the medium of a philosophy which had taught him that it, without exception, carried within itself the seeds of bitterness and was altogether worthless and impermanent; but now, to his wavering faith, the sweet delights of home and love, the charms of wealth and power, began to show themselves in a different light and glow again with attractive colours. He doubted and agonized in his doubt, but as the sun set, the religious side of his nature had won the victory and seems to have come out even purified from the struggle."
    There is no need to ask, as does Thomas, with apparently great suspicion (Thomas, op. cit., 230), whether we can assume that the elaborators of the Mara story were recording "a subjective experience under the form of an objective reality," and did they know or think that this was the real psychological experience which the Buddha went through? The living traditions of the Buddhist countries supply the adequate answer, without the aid of the rationalists. The epic nature of the subject gave ample scope for the elaboration so dear to the hearts of the Pali rhapsodists.
    I'm open to the possibility that more powerful and long-lived beings exist in various realms, and it's often fun to speculate about them (I've heard some entertaining stories about people who could see beings from these other realms). But I also think it's more useful to focus on what we can experience for ourselves in the here and now, and use our practice to try and transcend our mental realms in order to find a true and lasting happiness inside.
    howanataman
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