Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Do you samu? Confession of a lazy Zen Buddhist

zenguitarzenguitar Bad BuddhistNew England Veteran

In Zen, any activity performed in a mindful way can lead to enlightenment (so I have read). That means mowing the lawn or scrubbing bathroom tiles can be a path to enlightenment, just as sitting meditation is. But I find that my mind really wanders, to say the least, when doing manual tasks (called "samu" in the Zen temples). I would much rather meditate, or read sutras, or light incense sticks--anything but peel potatoes or paint the house! Any advice for a somewhat lazy Zen practitioner with this kind of aversion? Is Zen the wrong path for me?

Comments

  • GuiGui Veteran

    Keep practicing and one day sitting will be no different than peeling potatoes.

    VastmindCinorjer
  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran

    The obstacle is the path.

    http://zenhabits.net/obstacle/

    CinorjerzenguitarBuddhadragonEarthninja
  • zenguitarzenguitar Bad Buddhist New England Veteran

    Thanks. I find that it's actually not so much the manual work itself that bothers me, but all these thoughts that come up surrounding the work: "This should not be my job. I'm too smart for this! I'm an intellectual! I'm a musician! Can't someone else do this? I bet Richard Gere doesn't do manual labor!" I end up becoming somewhat resentful as a result. This reaction is compounded when I am criticized for doing a sloppy job (because my mind was wandering during the task). On the one hand, I feel guilty that I haven't been more mindful. On the other hand, my ego resents having to do the manual task in the first place! So the end result of this practice is not peace but a toxic stew of negative emotions. Not Good.

    I have seriously thought about moving to another Buddhist path because of this, yet I can't find anything else that fits better than Zen/Chan (It is powerfully simple, and doesn't require undue asceticism, in my opinion). And at one point a while back I even considered returning to my native Catholicism over this issue. Say what you want about the Church, at least they don't teach Catholics that cleaning the toilet brings you closer to heaven!

    Ok, enough ranting for now...I have to work! :)

    Cinorjer
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    @zenguiter -- If it eases the load at all, I think your problem is shared by any practicing Buddhist, though not perhaps in precisely the same way. The bedrock is that whatever you are doing isn't as holy and sanctifying as whatever it is you are daydreaming about.

    Not to worry. We're all jackasses to one extent or another. My vote: Go ahead. Knock yourself out. Daydream to your heart's content. Swim in the incense. Meditate until dawn. Pat yourself on the back or, alternatively, chastise yourself severely.

    Just keep up your practice.

    PS. Just to clarify a little: Buddhism is not a quid pro quo operation as you seem to suggest when referencing various Roman Catholic chores. It may be so that Catholics refrain from telling you you'll get to heaven while peeling potatoes, but there is nothing in Buddhism that promises anything whatsoever from any chore or activity whatsoever. There are no brass rings ... there is no if-I-do-this-I-will-get-that ... hell, there's not even a heaven. . :) .

    If you want a Kewpie doll, go to a carnival.

    zenguitarJeffreylobster
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I am not a Zen practitioner, but for me, the magic of life is in the ordinary, the mundane. When you can carry mindfulness and meditation with you, nothing is "boring" or resisted. Everything just is what it is, whether you are cleaning dog poop in the yard or enjoying an iced tea and watching a sunset. The labels start to lack power and so you are less averse to the tasks you previously viewed as unpleasant because you are less attached to the things you viewed as pleasant. It doesn't mean you don't still enjoy things, it's just not such a strong feeling either way. To me, that is contentment, being well in any moment.

    If something isn't working for you in the way you describe, it's good to work with it. Not necessarily abandon it. Zen may or may not be the right path for you. Even Buddhism may or may not be right for you. But finding a way to handle all that life throws at you, sunsets, dog poop, birth, death, illness etc is the only way to maintain calm in your life and peace in your heart. What path you use to get there, you will figure it out. But none of them will be successful if you consistently avoid the more icky or boring parts of life.

    zenguitarCinorjerJeffrey
  • NeleNele Veteran

    I agree with @karasti. Meditation puts fuel in the tank, then I can put-put-putter around contentedly dealing with the mundane.

  • zenguitarzenguitar Bad Buddhist New England Veteran

    Thanks everyone. I think I would feel better about the manual chores if I were doing them in a peaceful, meditative, temple-like environment in which everyone around me is even-keeled and like-minded. But I am a layperson with a (wonderful) family, living in an environment that is sometimes noisy and chaotic, with no other Buddhist in sight, and I also have to field criticisms and complaints, and the added stress of "real life" makes it much harder to maintain equanimity, I think. I guess it's just something I have to work on...

    Cinorjerlobster
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    I think I would feel better about the manual chores if I were doing them in a peaceful, meditative, temple-like environment in which everyone around me is even-keeled and like-minded.

    @zenguitar -- Perhaps it is like this: The lay person tries to learn what the monk already knows; the monk tries to learn what the lay person already knows. Day dreaming doesn't make the layman's life easier any more than the monastery makes a monk's life easier.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    I like to think that when my mind drifts off because I'm bored, it has really gone into creative mode and kick-started another universe, and lo and behold, that little fantasy I just snapped out of was I in another incarnation in that other universe. But now I'm back in this one, what was I doing, peeling potatoes - oops don't want to go starting universes all over the place do you and living boring lives or racing cars or being a diamond thief or a porn star... no no no, who knows what a pickle you'll find yourself in, or what boring chores await you there between races, stealing the crown jewels and sexual acts.

    So peeling potatoes, and being mindful of it seems to be a good place to be at the moment... Hmm that potato looks like a monk, what if I reincarnated as a monk in another universe ............................ \ lol / ........................

    It's what you do!

  • CittaCitta Veteran

    It isn't.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Samu is what you do when you are doing something and being mindful.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    edited July 2014

    It gets the job done. I was fantasising, it's what I was doing. What's wrong with that...

  • CittaCitta Veteran

    So its what you do. Its not what I do. When I am peeling pots I peel pots. Mostly.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Yes so do I but at times I fantasise whilst peeling them, and I know when I am doing that, because it makes me smile when I return to peeling the bloody things.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I, too, live in a family with a husband, 3 kids, a dog, 2 ferrets, a tortoise and a lizard. We're loud and busy :) When I stopped trying to always multitask, things became much easier as far as staying in the present. I don't keep watching tv, or washing dishes or sweeping the floor if someone speaks to me. I try to give them 100% of my attention, and then when I am done talking to them, I go 100% to sweeping, or whatever. For me, it was the multitasking that drove me nuts, trying to make breakfast while at the same time paying a bill online and waiting on hold on the phone to fill a prescription. Your mind, and your day, won't feel nearly as busy if you don't try to do a million things with ever second that you have. Everything you need to do deserves your full attention.

    My days are hardly perfect by any means, lol. My kids are noisy and they argue with each other. The dog races around the house sounding like a horse on a race track. But instead of wishing the situation was other than it is, I assess whether I can, and whether I should do anything about it, or if I need to let it go. By looking at what other people and my home need, I fulfill my own needs at the same time. That said, I also don't work, so I do not have to worry about having no choice by to multitask at work and I don't have to squeeze everything at home into a couple of hours, either. That definitely makes it harder but it also makes it more important to spend your limited time in the best way possible.

    CinorjerJeffreyanatamanzenguitar
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    I didn't know there was a word for it, 'samu'. That's really cool. I called it mindfulness, for lack of anything else, but it piques my imagination that performing the mundane life tasks (the repetitive, unrelenting) is conceived as a special little practice of its own.

    And my mind goes everywhere but the task in front of me, just like it does while sitting, and I try and bring it back again and again. Hey, talk about repetitive and unrelenting! Samu for samu! Wait . . .

  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    @anataman said:
    Yes so do I but at times I fantasise whilst peeling them, and I know when I am doing that, because it makes me smile when I return to peeling the bloody things.

    Yeah, where in the hell did I get THAT thought whilst peeling potatoes?

    Watching the mind (when I'm not sucked in, which is most of the time) is like hands-off baby sitting a two year old. Just watching them do their thing from a short distance, not really following it or making sense out it or trying to figure out what's going through their little minds. There is a lot of laughter there, but what is so funny isn't all that clear, but does it have to be :D ?

    'Couse MY mind is not so cute and innocent, I don't know 'bout anyone elses . . .

    Jeffreyanataman
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    When you let your mind be, and stop trying to control it - it is exactly what it is @Hamsaka. Just don't let it go too wild - ooops, that would be an intervention! Just don't try, hey what am I trying to say here.

    How do you catch a squirrel?
    Climb up a tree and act like a nut!

    ... \ lol / ...

  • zenguitarzenguitar Bad Buddhist New England Veteran

    Thanks everyone, these are insightful comments.

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    Actually, our Buddhist practice is the dress-rehearsal for savouring those routinary activities that fill our day and that we want to pass up waiting for the "big" thing to happen.
    This is the big thing: peeling potatoes, scrubbing the floor, washing the dishes... because they're taking place in the present moment.
    Imagine all you can learn just from doing mindfully any of those seemingly boring tasks without getting your mind swayed by rumination about the past or daydreaming into the future!
    This is what we practice for: enlightenment over the laundry.

    anatamanzenguitar
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    And meditation has nothing to complement it. It's a pointless act, a futile gesture, a fruitless measure, the meaningless conduct, and above all the insignificant hole in the seductive donut.

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    Why do you think meditation is pointless? It is polishing a tile to become a Buddha perhaps. But that said it is not pointless imho.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Did I say meditation is pointless, if anything it is the point @Jeffrey. You can't polish a brick to be a mirror, to use a well worn metaphor... You obviously don't see donuts in the same way as I do, or yours are full of Jam or custard - yuck!

  • gracklegrackle Veteran

    When you pay full attention to what you are doing much is revealed that you never saw before.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Yes @grackle, and it can't be put into words unfortunately.

    ... :coffee: ...

    for the last couple of days I've been clearing the neglected part of our garden - yes chopping wood (well sawing it with an electric saw) and carrying water (using the hose pipe) and it was great fun, but the callouses on my hands say - you don't do this often enough do you - Nope :shake: ...

  • zenguitarzenguitar Bad Buddhist New England Veteran

    Actually my mindfulness practice is quite good when I'm doing what I like (e.g. playing guitar, listening to music). I am right in the moment for an extended period of time. It's just when it comes time to wash the floor, do the dishes, etc that my mindfulness goes out the window. But I guess the idea is to be mindful always...something I haven't mastered yet.

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Any advice for a somewhat lazy Zen practitioner with this kind of aversion?

    Some people have the same aversion to formal practice. However your chores ARE formal practice. Your mind has aversion to practice? Do things slowly. If I suggested you saved your imaginings for your formal practice you might be outraged but that is what I would do. You might also try being mindful for a part of the chore, listen to mantra or sutra through headphones. You could also try naming the process. I am peeling, I am lifting the potato, I am imaging the Buddha is a potato . . . etc :wave: .

    Buddhadragonzenguitaranataman
  • CittaCitta Veteran

    One translation of Sati ( Mindfulness ) that particularly appeals to me is Recollection.

    The problem with it as a translation is that it as a word is mostly used in another sense, to recall or remember.

    But the original meaning is to re-collect. To collect again.

    And what is re-collected is our scattered senses and thoughts.

    Even a few minutes meditation is enough to demonstrate that our awareness is all over the place..that it jumps from topic to topic and from sensory input to sensory input within seconds.

    That cannot lead to insight. Neither can fantasy.

    So, we recollect.. by focusing on an object.

    If it we are on the cushion it might be the breath. If we are engaged in a task it might be the breath also, but also on the thing at hand.

    We draw our focus together into onepointedness.. When our attention wanders we gently bring it back. We collect it again from where it has slipped.

    Buddhadragonzenguitarlobsteranataman
  • CittaCitta Veteran

    @zenguitar said:
    In Zen, any activity performed in a mindful way can lead to enlightenment (so I have read). That means mowing the lawn or scrubbing bathroom tiles can be a path to enlightenment, just as sitting meditation is. But I find that my mind really wanders, to say the least, when doing manual tasks (called "samu" in the Zen temples). I would much rather meditate, or read sutras, or light incense sticks--anything but peel potatoes or paint the house! Any advice for a somewhat lazy Zen practitioner with this kind of aversion? Is Zen the wrong path for me?

    You will come up against the same challenge whichever school you attend @zenguitar. Changing schools is not the solution imo.

    It takes practice to stay in the moment. For many of us a lot of practice. Years of practice. Stick with it.

    After all the months and years will slip by whether you practice or not.

    zenguitarJeffrey
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran

    Any job worth doing is a job worth doing well. I don't, per se, get excited about weed whacking... but I do enjoy doing it well and feeling satisfaction after a job well done. The same could be said about the dishes, or mopping, or any multitude of other chores.

    Just like with meditation, it's about being in the present moment. When you're doing the dishes, just do the dishes. To wish that things were otherwise, or to fantasize about what you'd rather be doing, is actively creating dissatisfaction. It doesn't matter what you'd rather be doing, because right now, you're doing the dishes. So, your mind may wander, but just gently bring it back to the task at hand. Don't lament. Don't judge. Just try and see it for what it is... one glob of food at a time. Perspective can be very important. If you go into a task with the mindset that it is beneath you, it will change your experience. I spent last winter without running water and now... doing the dishes makes me feel very blessed at times, heh.

    CittaBuddhadragonzenguitarlobster
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    @zenguitar said:
    anything but peel potatoes or paint the house! Any advice for a somewhat lazy Zen practitioner with this kind of aversion?

    Learning how to allow your mind to become quite and centered is one of the great benefits of zazen. Once your zazen practice become strong and powerful, then you will be able to bring that power into daily chores with ease. That's the whole point of the work practice, to bring that power into your daily living.

    Letting go and not attaching to thoughts during zazen, is the exact same thing as letting go and not attaching to thoughts during peeling potatoes. The more skill you build in letting go and not attaching to thoughts, the easier peeling potatoes becomes. It's really just a matter of more practicing.

    zenguitarCinorjerBuddhadragonlobster
  • zenguitarzenguitar Bad Buddhist New England Veteran

    Thanks a lot everyone, but as they say, this may be easier said than done. :)

    Earthninjalobster
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    Maybe as a footnote, you might consider that you are doing all these chores because someone else wants to get out of doing them. Not your center, of course. :) . Whatever the case, if you've got the job, you've got the job.

    In Hindu monasteries -- or some that I heard of -- it was the most senior monks who got the stinkiest chores -- cleaning toilets or whatever. Pride of position seemed to be the worry. The new guys/gals did the less onerous stuff.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Lee Iacocca always maintained that the most important person at Chrysler Cars was the guy who cleaned the washrooms. And he wasn't kidding, either.

    zenguitar
  • zenguitarzenguitar Bad Buddhist New England Veteran

    @federica said:
    Lee Iacocca always maintained that the most important person at Chrysler Cars was the guy who cleaned the washrooms. And he wasn't kidding, either.

    And yet the Chrysler washroom custodian was not paid an Iacocca-level salary, in spite of his importance. :)

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited July 2014

    Actually; in Iacocca's biography, he mentions this guy was probably the best-paid washroom attendant in the whole of the USA. Given that he worked 4 hours/day, his salary was exceptional.

    And let's not go too far off_topic.....

  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran

    What would be a good way to begin? I mean other then sitting down, is there a particular way to begin? Perhaps, focusing on the breath? Is there a good video introduction available?

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @zenguitar said:
    Thanks a lot everyone, but as they say, this may be easier said than done. :)

    . . . here is some light reading for chore time . . .
    http://www.pbs.org/marktwain/learnmore/writings_tom.html

    zenguitar
Sign In or Register to comment.