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Anger

Has anger become a cultural norm? Do we expect to get angry as part of our everyday lives and just accept that that’s how it is? Whether through the spate of reality TV shows where more yelling means higher ratings, to web forums where common decency and civility are completely ignored, hate and anger seem to be part of who we are now, and that is very sad.

I bring this up because I realized for myself not too long ago that anger was a problem. I didn’t think of myself as an angry person. I wasn’t. If you asked anyone who knew me if I was an angry person they would probably laugh out loud. Did I get angry from time to time? For sure. But to me, “anger” meant getting really mad...raising my voice, yelling or the occasional "wtf" tirade, often ending in a reflective, somewhat timid, “wow, I was pissed!”

As I started thinking more closely about what the Buddha taught about anger (which I’ve read a thousand times), I realized that anger in me was more pervasive than I cared to admit. It was there all the time, waiting for virtually any moment to spring up. The thing is, I didn’t think of that as anger. Those "little" angry moments were called frustration, inconvenience, irritation. Also known as "life," right?

Thinking and exploring more deeply (instead of just turning the page), I came to realize that, whether on the smaller or larger scale, anger is anger. If someone accuses me of doing something I didn’t do, I get quite upset. If the power goes out while I’m watching the game, I get irritated. If I forget the keys to my office I get frustrated. If I'm in a hurry and the light turns yellow, I burst a little unwholesome speech. But big or small, these feelings are all exactly the same: anger is anger.

I decided to start thinking of “little” anger as the gateway to “big” anger and to treat those little angry moments like the moles in that whack-a-mole game; each time one popped up, I would whack it with my mindful Dharma hammer. It turns out this was a very effective way to deal with the big anger. And it’s amazing how often those little angry moles actually pop up. Slowly but surely, though, I'm winning that game.

There was a time when I could relate to the anger on TV, when it made think “see, everyone gets pissed about stuff…I'm like them, I'm normal!” But today I feel empathy for people who don’t even realize that, through right understanding, the anger and associated suffering it causes them and the people around them can actually stop. For good. Imagine that, never getting angry about anything again.

JasonDavidseeker242personRodrigosovaCinorjer
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Comments

  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator

    Interesting. This was the topic of tonight's meditation and discussion group at my local Dhamma centre.

    Earthninjasova
  • Swearing is common place in popular culture. I started to do it. Then felt It was my choice not to do it. Same with tattooing, I choose not to follow the sheep for their 'uniqueness'. Choice is the key.

    Anger is one of my suppressed conflictive emotions. So anger is very real for me. Much is nullified by practice but when it arises uncontrollably I often refuse to suppress it. Do I have the option? Only partly, it is very much locked into my body. It is often petty anger rather than justifiable assertion over unacceptable behavour.

    If my blood sugar is low, no daily exercise, too little meditation and too much stress, too many caffeine drinks and I am more likely to get angry.

    So I have many ways to generate positive emotional states: meditation, chamomile or caffeine free beverages, yoga, healthy snacks for blood sugar etc. Am I less angry? Yes. Buddha perfect? Nope.

    Earthninjasova
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited January 2015

    @just_so said:
    I decided to start thinking of “little” anger as the gateway to “big” anger and to treat those little angry moments like the moles in that whack-a-mole game; each time one popped up, I would whack it with my mindful Dharma hammer. It turns out this was a very effective way to deal with the big anger. And it’s amazing how often those little angry moles actually pop up. Slowly but surely, though, I'm winning that game.

    Yes, very true. For me it's a choice not to indulge the irritations, and to let them pass instead, at least on a good day! But again it seems that mindfulness is the key.

    I can see why people indulge anger though, it can be a bit of an adrenalin rush, a sort of pumped up powerful feeling. It's a feeling that warriors cherish.

    It reminds me of that speech from Shakespeares Henry V:

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
    Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
    Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;

    lobstersova
  • RodrigoRodrigo São Paulo, Brazil Veteran

    @just_so said:
    Thinking and exploring more deeply (instead of just turning the page), I came to realize that, whether on the smaller or larger scale, anger is anger. If someone accuses me of doing something I didn’t do, I get quite upset. If the power goes out while I’m watching the game, I get irritated. If I forget the keys to my office I get frustrated. If I'm in a hurry and the light turns yellow, I burst a little unwholesome speech. But big or small, these feelings are all exactly the same: anger is anger.

    Anger — as any other feeling — is unavoidable. What matters is what you do with you anger, how you react to it. You can give in to it and act agressively, for example. But we could use our anger as a trigger for introspection and self analysis. We'll likely realize how we are spolied and selfish, expecting that everything will go our way! I think that if we go through this process, anger can become a good laugh.

    lobstersilver
  • Thank you all for the comments.

    @lobster - funny you say that about tattoos. I tell people I won't get one because I want to be different. :) I also see two kinds of swearing; the cultural WTF and the angry WTF. One was ok and the other, not so ok. But...same scenario. They're both Wrong Speech.

    @Jason - it doesn't surprise me. I really do think of anger as a cultural disease now. I agree with @SpinyNorman‌, too. People feel more empowered and "right" when they deliver a point with anger. The louder they get, the more right they are. Except it's not true. I suspect the louder one gets, the more they're suffering.

    @Rodrigo‌ - the situations that "cause" anger to arise are certainly unavoidable but anger, I believe, is. At least that's how I interpret the third Noble Truth.

    sova
  • @just_so said:
    Has anger become a cultural norm? Do we expect to get angry as part of our everyday lives and just accept that that’s how it is? Whether through the spate of reality TV shows where more yelling means higher ratings, to web forums where common decency and civility are completely ignored, hate and anger seem to be part of who we are now, and that is very sad.

    You can choose not to participate in that. Honestly, until you brought it up, I wasn't aware of all that. It's not part of my world. You can choose and create your own reality. You could start by getting rid of your TV. I don't know anyone who watches reality shows, ugh! Just because something's on TV or on the internet, doesn't mean you have to watch it or participate in it.

    Why are you making these choices? That's the question.

    Vastmind
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran
    I think I've told this story but it's a good one for this topic.

    There was this business man who disliked the Buddha. He was bad for business and he was a heretic, so he thought.

    Anyway one day he heard the Buddha was in town and thought this was his opportunity to tell the Buddha shat he thought of him.

    So the business man came up to the Buddha and began yelling angrily at the Buddha. He was getting more infuriated as he went on.

    The Buddha then asked if he could ask the man a question? He agreed.

    The Buddha said " if somebody came over to your house and brought you a bad present. Like a cobra. What would you do?"

    He said id tell the guest thank you but you can keep the snake.

    Buddha said exactly. You come here with your gift of anger, but no thank you, you can keep it"

    The business man left angrily. The Buddha remained tranquil.
    Bunkssova
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    When I was social working I had to deal with a lot of angry people, angry with the world, angry with authority, the system, everyone. It's like they exhaust themselves and everybody else with their anger.
    After a while you learn not to take it personally and let it flow through you, but it's a real challenge.

    lobsterVastmindSarahT
  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    I so much prefer the person who lashes out in anger because at least you know what you're up to.

    More difficult to fathom are the people who are seething with anger but express it in devious, sugar-coated ways.

    VastmindsilverSarahT
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited January 2015

    @DhammaDragon said:
    More difficult to fathom are the people who are seething with anger but express it in devious, sugar-coated ways.

    Yes, there are a number of those around. Sometimes people with fragile egos I think, the type of person who regards any form of disagreement as a personal attack. Or people who have been severely damaged - I dealt with quite a few of those as a social worker.

  • @Dakini‌ - I watch one show where anger is a component but I don't watch the others. It's easy to spot a lot of yelling on TV just flipping through channels. With regard to web forums, if you want to have a discussion about politics without someone getting personal and saying evil things, forget it. But you made me think of the shows I watch and I never realized it but there is an underlying theme to all of them. Could be an interesting topic...maybe off-topic, maybe not.

    @federica‌ - that is a really, really difficult situation. Having a family that includes two teen girls, a 2-year old daughter and a very emotional wife, I may be able to relate at times. I used to get angry at difficult situations but I realize now that was out of selfishness...all the things I wrote above....inconveniences, interruptions..."why can't you people just get along instead of ruining my day!!!" I try to explain that they really don't have to act or react the way they do but they don't get it. For me, the Dharma hammer is immediately analyzing the situation and asking "what just happened" or "what is happening" and then processing that until the emotion dies. It's never about me and it hardly ever has anything to do with me but that used to not matter, I would personalize the situation and make it about me somehow. LOOK WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO ME!!! But the truth is, no one is doing anything to me. It's never about me. It never has been. When really observing what's going on versus immediately sucking it in, I see people hurting, distracted, confused, selfish...suffering. Then metta kicks in and I see how it really sucks...for them.

    SarahTBunks
  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    @DhammaDragon said:
    I so much prefer the person who lashes out in anger because at least you know what you're up to.

    More difficult to fathom are the people who are seething with anger but express it in devious, sugar-coated ways.

    >

    Oh, amen to that! :\

    Buddhadragon
  • SarahTSarahT Time ... space ... joy South Coast, UK Veteran

    @federica said:
    It's a salutary lesson, and very character-forming.

    Respect!

    Have to admit that I do sometimes wonder why my character appears to require more and more "forming" ... but I have discovered during the process that I do have an inner peace. Even when I can't find it, just knowing it's there somewhere helps me.

    Sending metta, metta, metta <3

    Buddhadragon
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @SarahT said:... I do have an inner peace. Even when I can't find it, just knowing it's there somewhere helps me.

    That's just brilliant. I love it, and warn you now, I will use it as a quote. (But I promise to not take the credit...!)

    SarahT
  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    @SpinyNorman said:
    Yes, there are a number of those around. Sometimes people with fragile egos I think, the type of person who regards any form of disagreement as a personal attack. Or people who have been severely damaged - I dealt with quite a few of those as a social worker.

    Fragile egos come in many shapes, don't they?
    Sometimes they disguise as oversized.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    "Bullying is a weak man's show of strength."

    Not quite the same thing, but very much along the lines of your comment. @DhammaDragon‌... :)

    BuddhadragonBunks
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    Anger is quite the cultural norm.

    In most folks who haven't contemplated anger, anger and action are lumped together as a single entity. In other words, my experience of anger arising is lumped with my angry reaction.

    So that when the reaction is questioned, so is the anger itself. But really they are separate.

    With practice, I can experience strong anger, but not lump it with a particular reaction (words, gestures, behavior). Whatever I do, if anything, does not directly follow the arising of anger.

    What I see happening is that as a culture, anger plus whatever words, gestures and behaviors is the norm. We've yet to have a conscious consensus about experiencing anger APART from what we do to act it out.

    When I ask someone to stop yelling at me, they might say "What, am I not supposed to be ANGRY with you?'

    No, of course not. I'm just asking you to stop YELLING.

    Buddhadragon
  • nakazcidnakazcid Somewhere in Dixie, y'all Veteran
    edited January 2015

    I too have an anger problem. But I don't get angry at people; I get angry at things. I'll lash out at dumb, inanimate objects when they annoy or frustrate me. Not physically; but I will "cuss a blue streak." This has gotten worse lately, probably due to a marked increase in stress, and a lack of spiritual practice (it's hard to meditate with a pinched nerve, though it's been getting better.) I work in customer service, so it's practically a job requirement that I be able to control my temper with people. However, if I'm really ticked at someone and can't let go of it, it'll "leak" out in various passive aggressive ways. Thankfully, I can usually let it go, and people regularly tell me I have the patience of Job. I have to wonder, though, how much anger am I subconsciously redirecting from people onto my poor computer.

    I've heard that the antidote for anger is loving-kindness, so I've tried that kind of meditation with some success. It's helped with anger towards people, but I still get annoyed with things so easily. Music has a powerful effect on me emotionally, so I'm in the process of changing my listening habits. Cheesy 70's soft rock anyone?

    lobsterEarthninja
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    @Nakazcid said:

    I get angry at things. I'll lash out at dumb, inanimate objects when they annoy or frustrate me.

    LOL me too :D I'm laughing WITH you.

    The 'antidote' for me (an ongoing process, a journey) is to separate my anger arising from any action or behavior.

    One does not 'automatically' follow the other. Sure, the cursing and throwing seem to happen like a reflex. But really, it is just deeply reinforced HABIT.

    One little idea that helps me when I get angry with the crockpot or computer is what I read in a book about the neuroscience of anger.

    Apparently, 'anger' is a neurochemical process quite outside our conscious control, that lasts approximately 90 seconds. By the end of 90 seconds, the neurochemical process has exhausted itself. If I can put myself on a brief 'time out', sit there and breathe, feel my feet and go upward to my hair, the 'anger' is dissipating or gone. All that's left of is that damn crockpot, which in the great scheme of things, is NOT worth throwing.

  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited January 2015
    So sorry, lmao. I just put a text to my fiance as a post.
    EarthninjaHamsaka
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    Aw, that would have been fascinating.....

    silverSarahT
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    @federica said:
    "Bullying is a weak man's show of strength."

    Or a womans! Let's not be sexist now. ;)

    silverSarahTlobsterDavid
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    The term was intended to be generic, as in 'mankind'.... but I completely agree and take your point. ;)

  • The Abhidhamma talks about sense doors, a metaphor that has really helped me learn to cut things off before they get out of hand. I never gave much thought to “sensations of the ear” before. How much pleasure can you get from the ear? But I’ll tell you what, anger seems to find its way to my mind processes most frequently through my ears. I’m doing a much better job at shutting the door the moment angry words start coming through, but when criticism, complaints, accusations, whining etc., all come knocking at the same time...forget it. :s

    BunksEarthninja
  • nakazcidnakazcid Somewhere in Dixie, y'all Veteran

    @just_so said:
    How much pleasure can you get from the ear?

    Um, you have listened to music before, haven't you?

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited January 2015

    Oh that modern music is all just noise anyway... :)

    BunksEarthninja
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @SpinyNorman said:
    Oh that modern music is all just noise anyway... :)

    >

    You're closer to the truth than you think.
    As many will know, I have a condition called Tinnitus. As if that isn't bad enough (in every sense of the word!) it appears i now have a secondary/associated condition called Misophonia.

    My specialist looks at me with a somewhat bemused grin, and is extremely sympathetic, but I know the condition to be very real; my father definitely suffered from it, as anyone crunching apples/crisps/popping bubble-gum would either incur his seemingly irrational, immediate and volatile wrath or he would get up and instantly leave the room, making his feelings extremely clear, even without saying a word....

    I'm not so much angered by certain sounds, as vexed or frustrated by them. I express my dislike of them by merely removing myself, or asking people to please, turn it down.
    Yup.
    Modern music does it for me. Modern jazz is virtually unbearable, and rap is particularly aggravating.
    I know a lot of people don't enjoy rap, but really - to me, it's torture.

  • just_sojust_so Explorer
    edited January 2015

    @nakazcid said: Um, you have listened to music before, haven't you?

    Maybe I should have said "how many pleasures of the ear can there be." Music can be one but, in the realm of "sense pleasures," the ear doesn't compete with the eye. At least for me, so that's the sense door that gets most of my attention.

    I also try and shut my ear door when people are chewing with their mouth open or talking on their phone at the gym. The first one is tough.

    @federica‌ said: I have a condition called Tinnitus.

    Me too! It makes meditating a bit of a challenge but I'm always happy when I realize for a few moments in silence that I didn't notice it.

  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    Odd reading this just now as my tinnitus is especially annoying right now. Not just the regular tone but also crickets over top of it.

    I just started re-reading Thich Nhat Hanhs Anger because it started rearing it's ugly head again.

    I like the whack-a-mole analogy earlier and that's pretty much what I do but I found myself getting mad at my daughter the other day over something I should really have more patience for. Especially as she's only 13 months old.

    I know it's the stress of my situation but it was disappointing. I raised my voice, not my hand but still.
    EarthninjaHamsaka
  • nakazcidnakazcid Somewhere in Dixie, y'all Veteran

    @just_so said:
    nakazcid said: Um, you have listened to music before, haven't you?

    Maybe I should have said "how many pleasures of the ear can there be." Music can be one but, in the realm of "sense pleasures," the ear doesn't compete with the eye. At least for me, so that's the sense door that gets most of my attention.

    I also try and shut my ear door when people are chewing with their mouth open or talking on their phone at the gym. The first one is tough.

    Sorry if I sounded a bit sarcastic there. Music is one of the greatest pleasures of my life. I daily listen to various forms of song, for hours if possible. I love it enough to have taught myself to play an instrument, though I only know a few songs.

    @ourself I also have a book by TNH called Taming the Tiger Within. I should probably dive back into it, but some of the quotations within puzzle me. For example,

    “Anger is like a howling baby, suffering and crying.
    Your anger is your baby. The baby needs his mother
    to embrace him. You are the mother.
    Embrace your baby.”

    Why do I want to embrace my anger? I'm trying to get rid of it, aren't I? I smell aversion, but I'm not sure what the alternative is.

  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited January 2015
    @nakazcid;

    Yes, I have that one as well.

    Why do you want to embrace your anger... I think he explains in that same book (I could be wrong) by comparing you to Buddha and anger to Mara. Buddha showed Mara compassion and tried to understand it.

    Trying to fight your anger, you will never really understand it. Only by inviting it in and shining a light on its darkness can you transform it to something useful.

    I think he also says that if you see your mind as a garden, you can see things like anger, sadness, compassion and happiness are as seeds. Some are watered subconsciously and some can be watered by will. When anger is watered and you see it as such then you can water a seed of compassion to try and understand the anger.

    If we figure out why the baby is crying, then we can make them feel better and they are no longer a crying baby but a source of joy.
    nakazcidEarthninjalobster
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    @federica said:

    As many will know, I have a condition called Tinnitus. As if that isn't bad enough (in every sense of the word!) it appears i now have a secondary/associated condition called Misophonia.

    Interesting, I can relate to that Misophonia feeling quite a bit! I tend to sort of blank it out. I think my tinnitus started from too many hours on a machine-gun, which is like standing next to a jack hammer.

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran
    edited January 2015
    My neighbour's tinnitus does not prevent him from torturing us with old Adriano Celentano, Al Bano and Toto Cutugno songs every time we're over for coffee or dinner -which has been almost every day the past week.
    Having music going all the time is the only thing that prevents him from going crazy from the constant buzz.
    I swear I'll run amok on a killing spree if I hear one more "Ventiquatro mille bacci.." :'(
    federicasilverEarthninja
  • @nakazcid‌ - re the music comment, no problem at all. Personally, I can easily get lost in a Mozart piano concerto. DirectTV has a channel called Zen that I really like too. And the tinnitus I mentioned is probably directly related to my drum-playing and blasting Rush and Van Halen too loud.

    I thought of a couple others ear-pleasures. Comedy is one for sure...maybe one of the best "pleasures" there is (and @federica‌, thank you for bringing up Emo. I saw him live back in the day and still laugh just hearing his voice in my head!). I also love to hear my kids' voices.

    @ourself‌ - I have three daughters. I've been there. In fact, I am there. I'll work on something thoughtful for you.

  • I am tired but have insomnia so won't read all of the posts, but I read OP's.

    It sounds like you have reached a certain level of awareness about yourself regarding anger and attitude, this is as I like to call them, a little awakening.You have managed to apply certain thought processes to everyday life to make it more of a virtuous life, which is great of course.

    Anger is a human emotion and it is natural, everyone will get angry but how you deal with it is what matters. Some people at the gross ignorant state of mind do not even properly see it and just act on impulse under the influence of anger which leads to negative outcomes. Then some people who can see what is happening may pause and then react, this pause is crucial and if everybody gave themselves a few moments to stop and think before they said or did something, the world would be a much better place.

    I love and always have loved the analogy of anger being a hot coal. I have said this scores of times on this site but it is such a great teaching that I always remind myself of it in certain situations. Anger can be thought of as a hot coal fresh from the depths of a burning fire. If you hold on to it it is going to burn, the longer you hold it the longer and worse it will hurt. Also whoever you share the coal with will become burnt and feel the pain of the coal, just like anger, whenever you share your anger with others they are most likely going to get hurt in some way. So basically the simple thing to do is to let it go.

    SarahT
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    @Nakazcid said:

    Why do I want to embrace my anger? I'm trying to get rid of it, aren't I? I smell aversion, but I'm not sure what the alternative is.

    I think this metaphor makes a LOT more sense if you've ever cared for a baby. If you have, you'll know babies get upset and angry several times a day!

    So TNH is saying 'what makes a baby angry?' to get you to relax preconceived notions about your OWN anger. What is a baby angry about? Discomfort. Fear and loss. Threatened safety. Powerlessness to get what they need themselves. That's all your anger is, at it's most essential level.

    It isn't a monster, or evil. It's just what our human organism DOES in the face of discomfort, fear, loss, threatened safety and powerlessness. We are in this body after all! We are 'expressing' through this mammalian body and subject to its hormone circuits, that have developed for however long, millions of years if we go back to proto-mammals. We have the same brain structures, albeit buried within a giant cortex.

    nakazcidsilver
  • just_sojust_so Explorer
    edited January 2015

    @ourself‌ - Most people grow up in pursuit of things that are pleasant and that they think will make them happy. The list is long… food, money, cars, clothes, sex, jobs, better jobs, parties, alcohol, trips to the mountains, trips to the beach, being with others, being alone, playing video games, watching TV, listening to music, being on the web. You get the idea.

    My observation (and experience) is that parents get frustrated and angry when their kids keep them from doing the things they are used to doing and that, frankly, they would rather be doing. There are plenty of other reasons parents get mad at their kids but, nine times out of ten, as sad as it sounds, mom and dad would rather be doing something besides being distracted by kids who are crying or need attention.

    Sometimes the frustration is understandable. My youngest daughter didn’t sleep a full night until she was 14 months old. Sleep deprivation can make even the most calm person insane. Now she's almost 3 and recently started to melt down when I leave for work. I mean she kicks and screams, blocks the door, falls on the floor and is literally terrified that I have to leave. This really is a frustrating situation because I can’t not go to work.

    But you know what I can do? I can turn the TV off. I can get off the computer. I can quit my video game whether I can save or not. I can miss a football game. I can skip a round of golf. I can stop doing anything I don’t have to do when she needs my attention, which is almost always.

    My advice is, be patient. After that, be even more patient. The crying, like everything else, is impermanent. She'll stop. And she’s going to need more attention than you realized. Whatever you thought you were going to do from one moment to the next you’re probably not, so let it go…forget about it. Be with her. It’s going to be this way for a long, long time. It’s hard at first but you’ll get used to it and you will come to appreciate it more than you know. She will appreciate it even more. Breathe. :)

    lobsterDavid
  • nakazcidnakazcid Somewhere in Dixie, y'all Veteran
    edited January 2015

    @Hamsaka said:
    It isn't a monster, or evil. It's just what our human organism DOES in the face of discomfort, fear, loss, threatened safety and powerlessness. We are in this body after all! We are 'expressing' through this mammalian body and subject to its hormone circuits, that have developed for however long, millions of years if we go back to proto-mammals. We have the same brain structures, albeit buried within a giant cortex.

    Since I haven't cared for a baby before, it may not be the best metaphor for me. But your explanation helps a LOT. I have raised puppies before, and they can be demanding, but I'm sure babies are an order of magnitude worse. Mostly, they required patience.

    Anger may not be inherently evil, but it can cause great harm. I think that's why I've learned to direct my anger at things, rather than people. A crockpot is not going to its feelings hurt that I yelled at it, nor is it going to yell back at me. It's safer, for both me and the object of my anger. I'm sure it still "plants seeds of anger" in me, though, which is why I'm trying to work on it.

  • The walls that we have built around our cities and the countless lives that have been lost trying to protect and destroy it, have been short-lived just as anger itself is short-lived. Anger is really just a type of suffering because nobody feels any comfort with anger.

  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    @nakazcid said:

    Not sure if you got my point, it's hard to put some of this stuff into words.

    The puppies are a good example, in that in their 'acting like puppies' they get into things, destroy property and when I had puppies, they killed my pet goose just being puppies. Talk about the 'seeds of anger'. I still go cold when I remember that :(

    What I was trying to explain, and clumsily, is that while YES, anger can and does cause great harm, anger BEGINS, ( or 'arises', a good Buddhist description of the process) in INNOCENCE. Our primate bodies depend upon 'anger' for survival. Whatever we create from anger is where it goes wonky, or worse. So rather than anger itself being the target of our mindfulness, what we do, think, assume WITH the anger is the target. Alone, anger is neutral, like tearing up when something gets in our eyes.

    ZenshinSarahT
  • SarahTSarahT Time ... space ... joy South Coast, UK Veteran

    @Hamsaka said:
    rather than anger itself being the target of our mindfulness, what we do, think, assume WITH the anger is the target. Alone, anger is neutral, like tearing up when something gets in our eyes.

    Bingo! Anger can even be a positive force - giving the energy to fight discrimination, exploitation or whatever. To me, it is when it becomes resentment or frustration that it becomes negative. But actions can be unskillful when coming from hunger, anger, loneliness or tiredness - the 12 Step Acronym HALT which reminds those in recovery to check their motivation when tempted to slip.

    lobster
  • The Buddha taught that Nirvana (the end of suffering) is the destruction of lust, hatred and delusion. Since it is a defilement in Buddhist terms, there is no good spin to put on anger. I believe that the "delusion" the Buddha referred to includes believing anger or any other defilement is "just part of the human condition" or that it "can be used for good.” He never said “get rid of defilements except...”

    There is literally nothing to get angry at. Everything is form and consciousness…stuff and mind. It makes no sense whatsoever to get angry at a "thing." In fact, even when we think we're angry at a thing (damn you car!) we're not. Anger lives in our minds, protecting and sustaining the self. Regardless of how we express or channel it, as long as we maintain it and especially if we believe it has any useful purpose, it will stay right where it is, waiting for the next opportunity to take over. That sucks.

    Mindful observation and understanding of difficult or deplorable things can lead to positive action. No anger is required.

    robot
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    @just_so said:
    The Buddha taught that Nirvana (the end of suffering) is the destruction of lust, hatred and delusion. Since it is a defilement in Buddhist terms, there is no good spin to put on anger. I believe that the "delusion" the Buddha referred to includes believing anger or any other defilement is "just part of the human condition" or that it "can be used for good.” He never said “get rid of defilements except...”

    There is literally nothing to get angry at. Everything is form and consciousness…stuff and mind. It makes no sense whatsoever to get angry at a "thing." In fact, even when we think we're angry at a thing (damn you car!) we're not. Anger lives in our minds, protecting and sustaining the self. Regardless of how we express or channel it, as long as we maintain it and especially if we believe it has any useful purpose, it will stay right where it is, waiting for the next opportunity to take over. That sucks.

    Mindful observation and understanding of difficult or deplorable things can lead to positive action. No anger is required.

    Absolutely correct, as I understand anyway :)

    This is one of those doctrines that is rather 'advanced', as most of us haven't the foggiest idea of what is coursing through our minds, much less how it dictates our behavior or pulls our strings. This is my understanding and one's mileage may vary :)

    Once the practitioner is able to be mindful of the arising of anger when it happens, as it happens, and with growing mindful awareness of the conditions giving rise to anger and the reactions OF anger, it does begin to appear that anger is rarely if ever 'necessary'. Or, even never necessary.

    But that is 'way out there', and trying to live accordingly with such an advanced idea is like a little kid wearing their mommy's business suit. The results are absurd. This is something to grow INTO, so that it is OBVIOUS that anger is unnecessary, rather than IT SHOULD BE unnecessary, does that make sense?

    No 'shoulds' in Buddhist practice, the doctrines are alive, living and being, not commandments etched in stone to curb your behavior.

  • Trying to fight your anger, you will never really understand it. Only by inviting it in and shining a light on its darkness can you transform it to something useful.

    You have to be ready and disciplined. Passive or suppressed anger is part of the fluffy bunny and hypocrite schools of dharma.
    If I talk and quack like a Buddha no one will notice I am an ugly duckling. [Mr Cushion says He is never fooled]

    Realising and releasing anger prematurely, without a gentle light, acknowledgement and supporting structure is dangerous. Potentially explosive. Are we sitting comfortably . . .

    It is why we come to dharma as hypocrites, arm chair Buddhists, lax practitioners and can't be bothered to become enlightened wannabes . . . That is how we all start unless lotus born
    http://www.tricycle.com/reviews/the-lotus-born-the-life-story-padmasambhava

    . . . however wrathful practices and forms of tantric Buddhism are available . . .
    http://viewonbuddhism.org/tantra_practice.html

    How is this dealt with in other dharmas? Gently sitting with arisings . . .

    silverHamsakaThailandTom
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    @Hamsaka said:

    Once the practitioner is able to be mindful of the arising of anger when it happens, as it happens, and with growing mindful awareness of the conditions giving rise to anger and the reactions OF anger, it does begin to appear that anger is rarely if ever 'necessary'. Or, even never necessary.

    Yes, and a growing mindfulness of the consequences of anger, it never leads anywhere good really.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @SpinyNorman said:
    Yes, and a growing mindfulness of the consequences of anger, it never leads anywhere good really.

    >

    I am reminded of the little angry boy given a bag of nails by his dad.....

  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    @SpinyNorman said:
    Yes, and a growing mindfulness of the consequences of anger, it never leads anywhere good really.

    That is exactly right and I leave it out all the time. The consequences of anger are SO evident to me that they are implicit. Both the giving and receiving ends. I don't get angry often and loathe feeling angry and dread the natural consequences of it. It truly does no good, in the final analysis :)

    Even so, it is a 'given' to be reckoned with, considering our mammalian bodies and brains, and not something to be elevated or ignored, just known. Known like we learn to know suffering. Hmm, I just said the same thing twice :)

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