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Drawn to Two Different Buddhist Traditions

Rowan1980Rowan1980 Keeper of the ZooAsheville, NC Veteran

One of the ongoing quandaries that I've been wrestling with is that I'm drawn to both Tibetan Buddhism, which I practice, and Zen Buddhism. My introduction to the latter was primarily through TNH's writings, which I gobbled up in college and found--and still find--profoundly moving and beneficial to me.

Speaking only for myself, I'm not one who wants to engage in a tradition mash-up of sorts. 8FP and 4NT aside, they both ostensibly have different approaches to practice. At the same time, I have trouble with excluding one tradition and favoring another. It's a bit of a mess, to say the least! Has anyone else encountered this?

Comments

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @Rowan1980 said:
    It's a bit of a mess, to say the least! Has anyone else encountered this?

    Sure!

    We humans are messy, even in our enlightenment.

    Agree with @genkaku - practice makes awesome. The only good dharma is the practiced.

    Anyways ... you think you have it tough? What about those Jubus, ChristoBodhi, DervishDharmahists and similar cross fertilisations.

    OM ZENNI PEMI MU as I said to the hand without the clap ... B)

    Rowan1980
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    Do you ever wish to join a sangha with a 'sangha leader' or teacher?

  • JohnMacJohnMac Dr Scotland Veteran

    It's like feeling different parts of an elephant

    EarthninjaRowan1980
  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    @Rowan1980 said:
    Speaking only for myself, I'm not one who wants to engage in a tradition mash-up of sorts. 8FP and 4NT aside, they both ostensibly have different approaches to practice. At the same time, I have trouble with excluding one tradition and favoring another. It's a bit of a mess, to say the least! Has anyone else encountered this?

    What you call "mash-up," Rowan, I call "synthesis."

    This has been my eternal existential doubt: my heart swoons over Zen, Chan and Theravada, but I always end up in Tibetan sanghas because in the city where I live, Tibetan schools are better represented.

    I do a lot of homework on the side, though, and at home I read bibliography from all schools.
    I can't remember who it was, but an enlightened Buddhist soul said that it is much better to learn from a good book than from a bad teacher.

    Don't feel that you have to marry one tradition, Rowan.
    Join a good sangha, and complement your learning with bibliography from the schools you feel more affinity with.

    silverlobsterEarthninjaRowan1980
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I practice Tibetan Buddhism. I belong to a sangha and have a teacher, well 2 teachers but one is definitely my main teacher. I have a curriculum of sorts that I follow and I go to him with questions and so on (along with the sangha).

    But I read things from Theravada, Zen, and Shambhala. I find things within each of them that help me understand my practice better, and supplement what I learn from my teacher. If I get confused, I ask him what he thinks about it, and so on. Many members of our sangha are the same. Some are very devout, they are at a place where they understand much better than me and are on a strict path. I'm not there. One day I might be. Our local sangha leader (our teacher and main sangha is based 250 miles away) is a Dzogchen practitioner but that is not what we focus on as a main group. So when he hosts dzogchen retreats, I don't go because right now I find much of it confusing. Keith Dowman was just here this past weekend, I would have liked to have gone but we are too busy with graduation stuff right now. This summer Lama Tony Duff (one of Trungpa's students) will be here for a 6 week residency teaching. I am looking forward to that and will be attending all that I can. He is my second teacher. I am pretty committed to my Tibetan path, but I find help from others as well. The conflict is minimal and I have to occasional arrive at a consensus on my own, which I am ok with.

    I took refuge with my primary teacher almost 3 years ago. I was practicing for about 18 months prior to that. 4.5 years is nothing of course, so I don't feel bad about dabbling. I know what I am practicing. The details of how to accomplish it are a back-burner issue for me.

    Rowan1980
  • I would visit centers or temples that are affiliated with each tradition. Then I would choose the one with which I feel a closer connection.

    For what it's worth, I belong to a Zen school that is of Korean origin. While that is where I physically go to practice, I am not averse to exploring teachings from other sources, even non-Buddhist ones. As time goes by, I see more and more similarities between humanity's attempts at finding meaning.
    Rowan1980
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Remember that many people do not have that kind of access to centers and temples, though. For those who have that access, what a blessing! By all means, check them out and visit with people. But not all of us have that option.

    Rowan1980
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran
    I initially looked at each school to find the one that resonated the deepest with me. I then followed the pointers and kept on investigating.
    Initially I saw the schools as spiritual one up man ship. Each rewriting and interpreting the teachings in their own fashion to suit them.

    But I see now that not one school is the correct or best because each person is diverse. Not everybody is suited to paint the same way, to train the same way, to eat the same food.
    We have kinaesthetic learners, audio and visual learners. Who says one way is the best?

    I follow what I see as the truth, I'm following what gets me to the core of the teachings without all the spiritual religious smoke and mirrors :)

    Sometimes the schools merge bit I wouldn't say I follow a particular school. I look at the pointing of people who have seen through the illusion.
    Rowan1980Buddhadragon
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    my teacher says it is more 'lineages' than sects. That means that different people convey their understanding differently and they have a line of the most accomplished students that gets passed down.

    Rowan1980
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran
    @Bunks the old zen proverb about blind men trying to describe an elephant from different points if view. Different descriptions, same elephant. Hahah.
    BunksBuddhadragon
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited May 2015

    @Rowan1980 said:> One of the ongoing quandaries that I've been wrestling with is that I'm drawn to both Tibetan Buddhism, which I practice, and Zen Buddhism. My introduction to the latter was primarily through TNH's writings, which I gobbled up in college and found--and still find--profoundly moving and beneficial to me.
    Speaking only for myself, I'm not one who wants to engage in a tradition mash-up of sorts. 8FP and 4NT aside, they both ostensibly have different approaches to practice. At the same time, I have trouble with excluding one tradition and favoring another. It's a bit of a mess, to say the least! Has anyone else encountered this?

    In my experience mixing up traditions and practices can become confusing, because each tradition has different methods and assumptions. It can also lead to the digging of many shallow wells, never really going into any one thing deeply enough to understand what it really is.
    What you might consider though is a Zen holiday from Tibetan Buddhism. ;)

  • Rowan1980Rowan1980 Keeper of the Zoo Asheville, NC Veteran

    Thank you for your feedback, folks. To answer @Jeffrey, I currently attend a dharma center on a fairly regular basis. I think I'm still looking, as it were. I don't drive, so I'm very limited. Living in Maine, which is not terribly populated in comparison to land mass, doesn't help.

    I have been eyeballing Zen centers, and I have also been looking at listings in Massachusetts in the off-chance that I can check out stuff when I visit them.

    Part of it is that I need to stop beating myself up into thinking that I need to absolutely commit to a specific tradition right now. I've been practicing for just shy of a year, and I'm definitely drawn to the Dharma. I'm trying to relax and be open to how actual practice could manifest over time.

    lobsterhowJeffreyBuddhadragon
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    @Rowan1980, my recommendation is do what feels right to you. If it ends up being "right", then you're going in the right direction. If it ends up not being "right", change course. It's as much a journey as it is a destination.

    Rowan1980Jeffrey
  • WalkerWalker Veteran Veteran
    edited May 2015

    C.S. Lewis talks about this in his book Mere Christianity. Although he writes about it in the Christian context, it's a neat analogy.

    His basic premise is that when you enter Christianity, it's like being in a corridor with a bunch of rooms leading off to each side. Methodist, Catholic, Baptist, etc.; each is a different room. The thing is that the hallway, while giving you options isn't the best place to hang around. The rooms are where there's furniture and other people and all the good stuff. So, you can try a room out. If it works for you, great. If you think another room might be better, you can always go back out to the hallway, and check out other rooms. The point is not to be stuck in the corridor, or any of the particular rooms. Explore!

    FWIW, I personally have just stepped into the corridor, and have only started to check out some of the 'rooms' in Buddhism.

    JeffreyRowan1980silverZenni
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    "When the student is ready the teacher will appear!"

    @Rowan1980
    The teachers I have 'physically' attended Dharma talks and initiations with have all been Tibetan, however I'm open to Buddhist teachings regardless of what school...

    I listen to different Dharma talks from Theravada, Mahayana (including different schools of Zen) via the internet (Cyber Gurus so to speak) :)

    Wisdom

    Rowan1980
  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    A Canadian man on Insight Timer talked to me very highly of Treeleaf the other day.

    I did not take a look yet, but it seems to be a very well-known -and complete with courses and chat- online Zen sangha.

    I deeply love the work of Thich Nhat Hanh, too, and late Chan master Sheng Yen, from Dharma Drum Mountain.
    If I could choose a sangha by spiritual affinity it would be either of them.
    I also like Theravadans like Bhikkhu Bodhi or Nyanatiloka Thera.
    But then, I also like HH the Dalai Lama, ChögyamTrungpa, Thubten Chodrom and Pema Chödron.
    Who says we have to choose?

    Rowan1980
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @Rowan1980 said:
    Part of it is that I need to stop beating myself up into thinking that I need to absolutely commit to a specific tradition right now. I've been practicing for just shy of a year, and I'm definitely drawn to the Dharma. I'm trying to relax and be open to how actual practice could manifest over time.

    Indeed <3
    Bring your relaxed Zen buttocks to the Dhyana (Zen focus) and your Tantra buttocks for the Lama thread.

    We haz plan!

  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran

    If you have a Zen monk to guide you in person, go with Zen.
    If you have a Tibetan monk to guide you in person, go with Tibetan. The Tibetans say that Vajrayana will "drive you crazy" if you don't have personal guidance ... and from the psychological perspective, it can destabilize you if you are going it alone.

    If you have a Theravadan monk to guide you in person, practice Theravadan.

    If you have no live teacher .. practice Theravadan. The methods used will produce results without guidance, and will not harm you.

    lobster
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited May 2015

    Yeah, Theravada is the original and best, hurrah! ;)

    No need for bells and whistles, no need to be hit with sticks, no need to re-invent the Wheel, small is beautiful, hurrah!

    lobster
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @FoibleFull said:

    If you have no live teacher .. practice Theravadan. The methods used will produce results without guidance, and will not harm you.

    This seems to contradict what you stated here:

    By practicing on your own, you will have developed a lot of false concepts that the teacher will have to undo.

    Rowan1980
  • Rowan1980Rowan1980 Keeper of the Zoo Asheville, NC Veteran
    Luckily, I did learn that there is a Soto Zen temple an hour away, and there is someone in my area who carpools there. I plan on making some inquiries for additional info soon. Worth a look.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    @Rowan1980 said:> Luckily, I did learn that there is a Soto Zen temple an hour away, and there is someone in my area who carpools there. I plan on making some inquiries for additional info soon. Worth a look.

    Definitely worth a look, and let us know how you get on.

    lobster
  • WalkerWalker Veteran Veteran

    Let us know how it goes @Rowan1980 . We're going through some of the same stuff by the sounds of it.

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @Rowan1980 said:
    Just by way of a brief update, I will be attending zazen practice for the first time this evening at the Soto Zen temple referenced above. Stay tuned. :)

    How exciting. B)

    Soon you will be zazened, beaten (allegedly), walking around in circles, watching paint dry and wearing black T-shirts.

    No hope for the dharmafied. ;)

    WalkerRowan1980Zenni
  • Will_BakerWill_Baker Vermont Veteran

    @Rowan1980, As regards discernment, listen to you Buddha wisdom. Here's to happy messes :-)

    Rowan1980
  • Rowan1980Rowan1980 Keeper of the Zoo Asheville, NC Veteran
    In the interest of not jinxing myself, I will say "so far, so good." :) I am still getting a feel of this particular group--and they, me.
    WalkerlobsterShoshin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited May 2015

    @Rowan1980 said:
    In the interest of not jinxing myself,

    Who or what is it that would become jinxed @Rowan1980 ? (Your first Koan :D ) Jokes aside, may it all work out well for you... :)

    Rowan1980
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