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suffering/Dukka

whatever arises is suffering/Dukka

do you agree to this?

if not why?

Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    arises with grasping or without grasping?

    Shoshin
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @upekka said:
    whatever arises is suffering/Dukka

    do you agree to this?

    if not why?

    and who perceives?

  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @Jeffrey said:
    arises with grasping or without grasping?

    concentrate the mind and develop the Insight bit further

    you would know

    @federica said:

    and who perceives?

    i am not

    @federica said:
    You lied, by the way. Or you have a short memory...

    @upekka said: Thank you Brian and thank you members of the forum
    this is my last OP
    ...
    by saying 'this is my last OP' i meant i do not start any new thread here after.

    5 new threads later....

    whenever i want to say something 'i' arises
    without the help of 'i', communication is impossible

    ok,

    if you (mean whoever read this) can get the translation of the following, i rest my case in this court/forum


    get a translation into english from 1:20

  • HozanHozan Veteran

    dhammachickDhammaDragon
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Trust me I'm trying. Even though my patience is in an equal predicament....

    HozanupekkaDhammaDragon
  • HozanHozan Veteran
    edited July 6

    @upekka said:

    @Jeffrey said:
    arises with grasping or without grasping?

    concentrate the mind and develop the Insight bit further

    you would know

    @federica said:

    and who perceives?

    i am not

    @federica said:
    You lied, by the way. Or you have a short memory...

    @upekka said: Thank you Brian and thank you members of the forum
    this is my last OP
    ...
    by saying 'this is my last OP' i meant i do not start any new thread here after.

    5 new threads later....

    whenever i want to say something 'i' arises
    without the help of 'i', communication is impossible

    ok,

    if you (mean whoever read this) can get the translation of the following, i rest my case in this court/forum


    get a translation into english from 1:20

    @upekka ??? What????

    DhammaDragon
  • KeromeKerome Did I fall in the forest? Europe Veteran

    @upekka said:
    whatever arises is suffering/Dukka

    do you agree to this?

    if not why?

    Is my going for a mindful walk, without grasping or clinging, dukkha? It is harmless but causes sensation to arise, without clinging to sensual pleasure there should be no consequence. It is a neutral action.

    upekkalobsterWraune
  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @Kerome said:
    Is my going for a mindful walk, without grasping or clinging, dukkha? It is harmless but causes sensation to arise, without clinging to sensual pleasure there should be no consequence. It is a neutral action.

    Good

    if you do not clinging to that senation and to that neutral action then the problem solves for ever

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    This thread and the other "who is..." one leave me feeling like I am reading a very mixed up version of "Who's on First" :lol:

    It seems anything that arises is like those fountains that squirt out of the ground at water parks or other places. The problem isn't the water shooting out (or the arising thought) the problem is when we think we can chase and grab the water, only to find it always slips through our fingers.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @upekka said:
    whatever arises is suffering/Dukka

    do you agree to this?

    Yes....With a clinging and grasping mind 'unsatifactoriness' arises when things pass away...This due to the impermanent nature of phenomena...

    So "May I clearly perceive all experiences to be as insubstantial as the dream fabric of the night, and instantly awaken to perceive the pure wisdom displayed in the "arising" of every phenomena!"

    if not why?

    Why not....

    pegembara
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Right. So -

    whatever arises is suffering/Dukka

    Is not correct.
    Our perception of

    whatever arises,

    is suffering/Dhukka.

    Depending on the depth of our perception, that is.
    Hence one aspect of Right View.

    I think that clears this one up.

    Are we to have more of these threads or could you maybe give it a bit of a rest now, @upekka?

    dhammachickHozan
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Hozan said:

    @upekka said:

    @Jeffrey said:
    arises with grasping or without grasping?

    concentrate the mind and develop the Insight bit further

    you would know

    @federica said:

    and who perceives?

    i am not

    @federica said:
    You lied, by the way. Or you have a short memory...

    @upekka said: Thank you Brian and thank you members of the forum
    this is my last OP
    ...
    by saying 'this is my last OP' i meant i do not start any new thread here after.

    5 new threads later....

    whenever i want to say something 'i' arises
    without the help of 'i', communication is impossible

    ok,

    if you (mean whoever read this) can get the translation of the following, i rest my case in this court/forum


    get a translation into english from 1:20

    @upekka ??? What????

    tldr;

    My brain hurts. What's the point of all your riddle posts Upekka?

    DhammaDragon
  • NamadaNamada Veteran
    edited July 7

    My brain hurts. What's the point of all your riddle posts Upekka?

    to really prove that wathever arises is suffering/Dukka :)

    ShoshinDhammaDragon
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 7

    Does this include coffee? Is coffee with cream and sukkah? Or dukkah? Decaffeinated? "flavored" coffee?

  • techietechie India Veteran

    @Namada said:

    My brain hurts. What's the point of all your riddle posts Upekka?

    to really prove that wathever arises is suffering/Dukka :)

    In a way, he's right. Whatever arises is conditioned and therefore has the seed of dukkha.

    ShoshinlobsterFosdickupekka
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @upekka said:
    whatever arises is suffering/Dukka

    do you agree to this?

    if not why?

    The unconditioned or Nirvanic state does not arise or belong to impermanence. That is why it is described as the end of ignorance and dukkha. However a dukkha or emotive/ignorant/body/mind component continues the awareness or experience of dukkha just as there is an awareness of a non-dual underlay ...

    One day the Master announced that a young monk had reached an advanced state of enlightenment. The news caused some stir. Some of the monks went to see the young monk. "We heard you are enlightened. Is that true?" they asked.
    "It is," he replied.
    "And how do you feel?"
    "As miserable as ever," said the monk.

    Ay caramba!
    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/18865/enlightened-or-not-nothing-changes-and-the-earth-still-spins

  • NamadaNamada Veteran
    edited July 7

    Hmmm, whats wrong with this monk, he has achived enlightenment and he is still not happy? Now he want his money back? :D

    lobsterDhammaDragon
  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited July 8

    @federica said:

    Are we to have more of these threads or could you maybe give it a bit of a rest now, @upekka?

    it seems some of you do not want to go into the deapth of Buddha's Teaching with 'thama thama nana pamanin/ pacchanthan vethi thbbo'

    if you (whoever go through this thread and few other threads) really pay attention and try to see the moon by looking at the moon instead of looking at the finger you would have answer to your own question

    you would see you have come half way through Buddha's Teaching

    studing Attakavagga rightly fit in from this on wards

    i would say 'studing' is not enough 'we have to see what we have study within'

    @Namada said:
    Hmmm, whats wrong with this monk, he has achived enlightenment and he is still not happy? Now he want his money back?

    still he has the first arrow but he successfully removed the second arrow

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem switzerland Veteran

    Youtubes in Sinhalese are definitely dukkha.
    I swear by that oneπŸ‰πŸ˜’πŸ‘

    upekka
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem switzerland Veteran

    @upekka said:
    it seems some of you do not want to go into the deapth of Buddha's Teaching with 'thama thama nana pamanin/ pacchanthan vethi thbbo'

    With all due respect, please drop the Theravada path, @upekka and embrace the Zen path.
    It will simplify things way soooo much for you.
    (And for us, by extension)

    dhammachickupekkaHozan
  • DavidDavid some guy The Hammer in Ontario, Canada, eh Veteran

    Is change dukkha or is it how we perceive and deal with change?

    Just a thinkance that deserves no answer or even acknowledgment.

    ShoshinKeromelobster
  • KeromeKerome Did I fall in the forest? Europe Veteran

    Ultimately all these teachings are an attempt to release and re-train the mind... as Bodhidharma said, "if you can understand the mind, all else is included."

  • techietechie India Veteran

    Is it really possible to separate 'change' and our perception of it?

  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited July 10

    @techie said:
    Is it really possible to separate 'change' and our perception of it?

    of course

    first know what the perception is

    then practice how to reduce arising it and gain a concentrated mind (a period without perception/ jhana)

    then there is a possibility to see the 'change'
    then there is a possibility to see the 'suffering'
    then there is a possibility to see the 'non-self'

    this is not the end
    but from this onwards there is a knowing to be mindful and 'let go'

    once this process is completed (it depends on the effort) there is liberation/unbinding/nibbana

    at least one must try to see the 'change', 'suffering' and 'non-self' in this life time
    if not it is an utter waste of the life one got
    irony is that one does not understand the value of this 'first stage' until one sees 'change', 'suffering' and 'non-self'

    that is why, at the beginning we have to have faith in Buddha's words
    then we must try to test them and see whether there is any truth in them
    if possible to see truth in them, then no need of faith, because knowing itself strengthen the knowing

    the key word is Insight meditation

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 10

    How do you see 'change' without that seeing being a perception?

  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @Jeffrey said:
    How do you see 'change' without that seeing being a perception?

    is this question arises after practicing 'how to reduce arising the perception and gain a concentrated mind (a period without perception/ jhana)'?

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @upekka said:

    @Jeffrey said:
    How do you see 'change' without that seeing being a perception?

    is this question arises after practicing 'how to reduce arising the perception and gain a concentrated mind (a period without perception/ jhana)'?

    Does THAT question arise after practising "how to reduce arising the perception and gain a concentrated mind (a period without perception/ jhana)"...?

    We could go on like this ad infinitem, @upekka. But that would just get more and more irritating.
    Wouldn't it?

    Rather like "I know that you know that I know that you know that I know that you know the answer, but I know that you know that I know that you know that I know that you know you won't answer it."

    Hozan
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran

    Is change dukkha?

    If it were so there would be no escape since all things are constantly undergoing change. Some changes are in fact not dukkha like the disappearance of pain.

    It is only dukkha when one unrealistically expect pleasant conditions to remain.

    Davidsilver
  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @federica said:

    We could go on like this ad infinitem, @upekka. But that would just get more and more irritating.
    Wouldn't it?

    yes, if one just think about it one gets more and more questions and get irritated and get tired too

    but if one do Insight meditation, one would be a step closer to the answer and one feels like doing more and more Insight meditation to get into the depth of the Teaching

    @pegembara said:
    Is change dukkha?

    No, impermenance is not dukka
    because of the impermenance, there is dukka

    If it were so there would be no escape since all things are constantly undergoing change. Some changes are in fact not dukkha like the disappearance of pain.

    there are three kinds of feeling as we heard/read in Buddha's Teaching (pain, pleasure, neither-pleasure-nor-pain/dukka, suka, upekka)
    unless we will be able to see these without the involvment of a perception we can not see what exactly is the change or impermenance
    always we find my headache, i have a pain in my leg etc.

    It is only dukkha when one unrealistically expect pleasant conditions to remain.

    true
    but one should know the reality too

    by the way here after i do not want to response to this thread because it seems some members have complained that my responses made them agitated

    i never intended to do so

    sorry guys

    lobster
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    Much Metta to you @upekka .πŸ‘

    upekka
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited July 10

    @upekka said:
    whatever arises is suffering/Dukka

    do you agree to this?

    if not why?

    No because things like upekka also arise!

    "And what is the still greater unworldly equanimity? When a taint-free monk looks upon his mind that is freed of greed, freed of hatred and freed of delusion, then there arises equanimity. This is called a 'still greater unworldly equanimity.'

    upekka is, by definition, not Dukka =)

    Shoshinlobsterupekka
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