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Low Carb High Fat...

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Comments

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I've been back on track the past week or so, feel much better. Traveling this weekend so trying to put a plan together. My son almost always chooses Italian (the American version, lol) so we'll see what happens. Last time I got steak but it was not all that good for how much it was. Hoping he'll want to try something new instead.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Pork cheek slow-cooker stew, with leeks, onions, tinned tomatoes, baby carrots mushrooms, and seasoned with cumin and smoked paprika.
    Who's up for a bowl...?!

    karastiSocair
  • @federica said:
    Pork cheek slow-cooker stew, with leeks, onions, tinned tomatoes, baby carrots mushrooms, and seasoned with cumin and smoked paprika.
    Who's up for a bowl...?!

    YES PLEASE!!!!

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    It's utterly, utterly lush!

    I had the temerity to try black soya bean linguine with it. Per 100g, 19% carbs, 46% protein.
    I had 50g....

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    Sounds like a bell-ringer to me - count me in!
    Although I'd like to know which end of the pig the cheek came from. :grin:

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    @federica said:
    Just came across an article talking about Blood Group diets.... Anybody have any opinions, or know about it...? Am doing some research myself.....

    I'm O+, and as such have the most common blood group.
    Here's what I - and other O+'s - am/are supposedly permitted to eat and discouraged from eating..

    I am 0+ too, Fede.
    Interesting that some of the foods that are mentioned as not ideal for the group are foods that I instinctively reject, while I love most of the foods mentioned as suitable.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @silver said:
    Sounds like a bell-ringer to me - count me in!
    Although I'd like to know which end of the pig the cheek came from. :grin:

    Well, not the tush!

    @DhammaDragon, yes, I agree!

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    so this morning I was combing my hair for a work skype meeting. I usually just throw it in a ponytail because I shower a little later, after my workout. I noticed that I suddenly have significantly less gray hair. I had a good 2 inch wide streak going that was growing regularly. I noticed today it is virtually entirely gone. It was something that has been building the last 5 years or so. Just gone. I have a stray gray or 2, and that's it.

    Looking online, it's apparently somewhat common in low carb diets for gray hair to stop. Super interesting. Definitely an unexpected aspect. I found these comments (no, I didn't verify them, just found them interesting and I'm going to look more into it when I have more time). The first comment especially explains why I feel so fantastic, too. I feel amazing and only sleep 6 hours a night, I'm very rarely tired outside of bedtime (only on the first day of my period) and I feel like I have more energy than my kids most days. I'm not sure I've truly felt this good in the last 20 years.

    "Regarding gray hairs, this happens when your body is unable to synthesize an adequate amount of melanin. Melanin is the pigmentation that gives your hair its natural color. In order to make melanin, your body needs a specific non-essential but yet conditional amino acid called tyrosine. Your body also needs tyrosine in order to make dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, coenzyme Q10, and thyroid hormones. The availability of the needed amount of tyrosine may become deficient due to an incomplete diet low in protein." Dr Luan Pho

    "Also, high-carb diets have been shown to inhibit the production of catalase, which moderates hydrogen peroxide in the body. Hydrogen peroxide can bleach your hair from the inside out. Switching to a low-carb diet like keto, therefore, can potentially restore nominal catalase levels and return hair to its proper coloration (less the march of genetics)"

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Wow, thank goodness you posted this - I thought my grey-hair growth had slowed down, but I didn't want to believe it had anything to do with my LCHP/F WoE, because I thought it was a figment of my imagination, and 'too good to be true'...Well I never.
    I've noticed it too....

  • ToshTosh Veteran

    I fell off the low carb wagon in about August last year as I ramped up the weekly running mileage for an ultra marathon which I ran in November (46 miles around the Brecon Beacons).

    Since finishing the ultra marathon and Christmas, I went from 173 lbs to 190 lbs.

    At Christmas I couldn't have one-or-two mince pies, it was a whole box. I'd buy big bars of chocolate that said 'For sharing' on the packaging, and I didn't share.

    So come the 2nd of January, I started eating LCHF, again.

    My name is Tosh and I'm a sugar addict!

    silverWonderingSeeker
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 18

    Oh, sweet! sh...ooot!

    OK, @Tosh. You know how it goes.
    We're right behind you.
    Move away from the sweetie bowl.

    Man, that sucks.
    I'm sorry for your gain.
    But stick with it.

    The irony is, of course, that this is YOUR thread.....

    Tosh
  • ToshTosh Veteran

    @federica said:
    The irony is, of course, that this is YOUR thread.....

    Naw; I merely started it; or the universe made me do it.

    I've a planned relapse towards the end of the month because I'm running a road race, so want some carbs for that, and said carbs will be a big bar of chocolate and a bag of chocolate raisins. Not your typical runner's nutrition; I know I know.

    I'm really looking forward to the race for all the wrong reasons.

    My grasping mind...

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    Start with the big bag of choc-raisins - they're so rich maybe you wo't want the bar after that.

    Maybe you should give up the racing - seems like a good excuse for having big fat treats.

    Look up some IF/Keto youtubes that's what I'm doing and it really helps.

    I water fasted for 2 days and lost 10 lbs in those 2 days with guidance from YT.
    Try FledgeFitness for one; KenDBerryMD; ThomasDeLauer.

    Tosh
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    In ultraracing there are actually quite a lot of people who do keto, it is ideal for that kind of pursuit. When you start talking running 50KM+ it gets very hard to hold food down. When you are a carb-based athlete, you have to eat carbs, so they frequently end up with severe digestive issues because your digestion shuts down, so they keep eating but nothing digests and they end up throwing up and dehydrated. LCHF endurance athletes don't run into that because they don't "hit the wall" the way carb-based runners do. Their bodies are used to burning fat. And then they don't have to eat nearly so much. But it's just natural that a lot of exercise brings above cravings to eat everything in sight :lol:

    My low carb wagon started to tip around Thanksgiving, and by early December I said "Screw it, I'll go back on in January" I mostly still kept tabs on things but I didn't deny myself birthday cake or xmas treats. I gained almost 10 pounds in a month despite my calories being in range all but one day. I can maintain weight up to about 50g a day. I gain if I eat anything more than that. I only lose when I am under 30g. Half of the weight was gone the first week back on LCHF and as of this past week I'm 2 pounds away from where I was. I can't say whether it was entirely worth it or not, but the cake was delicious :lol I had an awful headache for 2 days, which didn't happen last time I went keto but I tapered off last spring instead of going cold turkey. Kept up with my salt/electrolytes and drank a ton of water, which helped.

    For me, the hardest part is that my family, like many, celebrate with food. My parents considering cooking for someone a sign of love and togetherness and I have a really hard time saying "no thanks" to their signature desserts and dishes when it's so important to them to share them with family. Normally, a single meal of higher carb doesn't cause me issues, I go right back into keto the next day. But the holidays there are too many to keep up with!

  • ArturoArturo Planet Fitness New

    I've not read the rest of this portion but I've studied diet and physical health at college and the idea of low carb anything is bad when considering the carbs are always turned into glucose to fuel the brain and it's functions. Carbs are also the main source of fuel for the body (but many argue the fat will take that place). Fat might take the place of carbs for some things but what kind of fats? Are they healthy fats? Fat is a VERY slow burning energy source and complex carbs a mid tier and then simple carbs is just plain sugar that absorbs real fast and gets you high af. What does the metabolism go through when you switch from carbs to fat as the main energy fuel? There are also sources that say they become very fatigued when they don't have enough carbs. (That's because they are not using their carbs to fuel their blood glucose for their brain.)

    But I digress.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    apologies, @Arturo but your information that you've learned in college truly is very, very out of date. Thousands of studies will tell you differently. I've been low carb (under 30g a day, often closer to 20) for almost a year. I suffer NO lack of energy, in fact, quite the opposite. Your brain needs very minimal carbs, which is what is covered by the minimal intake. Muscles and the rest of the body work just fine on ketones. People who cannot process carbs normally get nothing good out of it, and if you'd like to learn about those experiences and information, I'd suggest you read the rest of the thread because ther eis a ton of valuable information in it.

    Arturo
  • ArturoArturo Planet Fitness New

    It's as out of date as this past fall. But ok :) I work on a different method from the rest of the people who seem to do this diet. I'm interested in gaining muscle mass and not losing weight.

    Other people I have talked to said that low carbs made them tired, or the weight loss was negligible. Meaning it had a curve. The lost about 10-15 pounds after I recommended the diet to them and then they reported the loss of weight was halted after 2 months. That was this past summer. I'm not sure why it worked for you and not for them.

    I however had heard about it from a trusted source on youtube where a person confirmed it worked, and it worked fast.

  • ArturoArturo Planet Fitness New

    @karasti I do appreciate your input though. Very insightful.

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    Hi @Arturo and welcome to this precious on-line sangha.

    People can tell you anything - they might be 'fudging' a little or a lot, hah.
    One of those curves is adjusting to a new program of eating. People don't always have the patience to stick it out. BUT for the longest time, the world is just too full of nutritional B.S. in the media - everywhere you look - even your friendly doctors. (some of which are pretty pudgy).

    The only time I have felt sluggish on this program, is when I do a prolonged fast - earlier this week I did a 2-day fast and felt a bit weak. But the benefits far outweighed a temporary thing.

    These are the people I follow on YouTube. Butter Bob, Fledge Fitness, Thomas DeLauer, and the latest DrKenDBerryMD. They're all good!

    Arturo
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 20

    @Arturo said:
    I've not read the rest of this portion but I've studied diet and physical health at college and the idea of low carb anything is bad when considering the carbs are always turned into glucose to fuel the brain and it's functions.

    I would very respectfully suggest you go back to the first page of this thread and watch, intently, the videos highlighted in it.

    Carbs are also the main source of fuel for the body

    No, they're not.

    (but many argue the fat will take that place). Fat might take the place of carbs for some things but what kind of fats? Are they healthy fats?

    Yup.

    Fat is a VERY slow burning energy source and complex carbs a mid tier and then simple carbs is just plain sugar that absorbs real fast and gets you high af.

    What the hell have they been teaching you? How to throw yourself into an early grave, by the sound of it!!

    What does the metabolism go through when you switch from carbs to fat as the main energy fuel? There are also sources that say they become very fatigued when they don't have enough carbs. (That's because they are not using their carbs to fuel their blood glucose for their brain.)

    Throw your books away and start again.
    One very well-known proponent of the Paleo (LCHF system) used to be an athlete and long-distance marathon runner.
    He discovered the 'standard healthy diet' you described, nearly killed him.

    But I digress.

    That's ok, it's easily done.

    Watch the videos.
    I know exactly what will happen.
    You'll find a strong resistance to what they say.
    You'll disbelieve it, and think they're all talking rubbish.
    But everything they say is true, verifiable, grounded in stringent examinations, tests and medical research.

    The course you studied may have been recent, but the subject matter and books they took from, are ages old and is based on historic research. What they taught you is stuff based on data that is.. well, frankly, out of date. It needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the current sea of understanding.
    Your place of education hasn't caught up yet.
    It will.

  • ArturoArturo Planet Fitness New

    I agree to disagree respectfully =)

  • I think most will agree that there are different qualities of carbs. Like processed all purpose flour is not the same as fresh fruits and vegetables. And likewise there are different varieties of fats: saturated, trans, mono unsaturated, and poly unsaturated. Also exercise, stress relief, and relationships are important along with diet.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 20

    @Arturo said:
    I agree to disagree respectfully =)

    Why?
    Which particular video, or link to research are you disagreeing with?

  • ArturoArturo Planet Fitness New

    @federica I am disagreeing with the whole idea. I made a short survey on another site asking of those who took the keto diet if it worked for them. Most said yes, 25% said no. Some commented that they tried and then gained all the weight back when they went off diet. I cannot link for privacy sake.

    Like I said, I did not actually read this whole thread. I just skimmed through the first post a little bit without watching the video. I still haven't done that. I am aware that some research has been done that says the keto diet is good for ect. and that contradicts old data and research. But what I don't know is why they had those ideas in the first place and how they tie in to the new research. Is something important missing from the puzzle?

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 21

    Yes. Advanced, more up-to-date knowledge, research, enquiry existent data and proven testing.
    Other than that, I don't know.

    If you want more tea in your cup, you'll have to empty it first.

    ETA: I notice you list your whereabouts as 'planet fitness'.
    This would suggest that fitness, health and well-being are important to you.

    I would recommend - as a healthy, fit 61-year-old person - that you open your mind to advanced and new workings in the field of diet, intake, and general physical prime health, because sadly, you have been taught things which far more experienced, knowledgeable and long-term experts are demolishing.
    If you choose to remain 'stuck' in what you believe you know and have learnt - you will become unstuck all too soon.
    Open your mind, @Arturo.
    That's the entire point of this forum, by the way.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    edited January 21

    @Arturo I've been studying nutrition and fitness for more than 20 years. I looked heavily into going the registered/licensed dietitian route. Until I found out where the information comes from that they provide for that education. Dietitian courses are approved by the USDA...who are very, very heavily influenced by the various lobbies, especially via companies like Nestle and Kraft. It is much more about money (as are most things in our licensed worlds) than true health and what is right for people.

    A friend of mine actually just dropped her state dietitian license because of this. Because she feel the advice they give is harmful to people rather than helpful. If you are interested to see what she said I can send you her email with her reasoning.

    No matter how much you look at an "average" too many people lie outside of it, and to give a complicated person "average" nutrition advice can definitely be harmful. I am sure none of this is what you want to hear having just invested so much time and money on education, but it is what it is. If you read the studies that are in this thread and watch the videos, you'll see that actual studies done by Harvard and other reputable institutions fly in the face of what is taught in education for nutrition-based fields. Even one of our local doctors has decided to get on board and has a list longer than he can manage of people looking for his help because of the results his diet gets. and it's nothing more than LCHF.

    Our youngest son is a T1 diabetic, so I see the results in graph and chart form, of various amounts of carbs. And it's no different for the rest of us except the damage happens long-term because of course our blood sugars might hover in the 120 range rather than shoot up into the 300+ range.

    But in any case, if you are looking to use your education to help people, I highly suggest you look further than everything you were fed in college. And I'd make the same recommendation for anyone. Always ask who benefits. Follow the money. It almost always gives you the answer. The answer, sadly, is not the every day person. If you want to help people, then expand your horizons a bit and at least be willing to read the studies and watch the videos. ESPECIALLY if you find yourself resistant to doing so because you are so sure everything you taught is right because they made it make sense. It really doesn't. Very few people in the world benefit from eating upwards of 200g of carbs a day. Very few. And of those, I am talking people like Michael Phelps who spend so much time exercising that then 5000+ calories a day he eats in pancakes doesn't cause him the harm it does others.

  • ArturoArturo Planet Fitness New

    I always research and verify things before I put them out there. I'm not here about losing weight like I said. My expertise lies in gaining weight. I have done the research myself, as well as verified it with others in my class that the keto diet is another fad diet.

    But your son already has a blood sugar problem, which affects his insulin, which affects his ability to regulate his sugar properly. He can't be compared to the rest of us, sorry to say. You should know this if your son has T1 diabetes.

    There is a condition where you have blood sugar that is regularly too low called hypoglycemia. It's a real and persistent condition that I think the people with it would not agree with this thread. I know someone who has this issue and I would not go there, that's the reason I stopped with this thread. I won't say anymore. I won't even check this thread.

    silver
  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    Sure you won't, @Arturo. ;)
    If I were a betting person, you'll at least read responses after this because you're already way invested in being right. Fwiw, the thread does have it's share of those responding who do want/need to lose weight, but generally, it's about the Keto program of eating and Intermittent Fasting (IF). Nobody came here looking to (ahem) weigh in and have some sort of ironclad truth above anyone else, as far as I can tell.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Arturo said:
    I always research and verify things before I put them out there. I'm not here about losing weight like I said. My expertise lies in gaining weight. I have done the research myself, as well as verified it with others in my class that the keto diet is another fad diet.

    But your son already has a blood sugar problem, which affects his insulin, which affects his ability to regulate his sugar properly. He can't be compared to the rest of us, sorry to say. You should know this if your son has T1 diabetes.

    There is a condition where you have blood sugar that is regularly too low called hypoglycemia. It's a real and persistent condition that I think the people with it would not agree with this thread. I know someone who has this issue and I would not go there, that's the reason I stopped with this thread. I won't say anymore. I won't even check this thread.

    LCHF/P Diabetic discussions.

    General info and discussion

    With A body of American Doctors lobbying the Government to completely review and overhaul the USAD Advice and recommendations, (amid much opposition from the big guns of the food industry!) I don't think 'fad' is the word you're looking for....

    karasti
  • SocairSocair Veteran
    edited January 24

    I have to admit as a scientist and somebody who is using a LCHF diet, the truth is in the results and the huge body of scientific evidence gathered. I have no doubts anymore about the dangers of carbs, paticularly refined carbs. Both @federica and @karasti are very well researched as well as practised in this area and have seen the results. The inuit people have a diet full of fat but have practically zero instance of heart disease. My mind is in no doubt anymore about what is causing us huge problems in the west and it is our massive consumption of carbs and refined carbs. Obviously trans fats are bad but thats not part of this debate.

    federicakarasti
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran
    edited January 24

    I have to say my experience agrees with Federica’s viewpoint here, LCHF can resolve many dietary difficulties and the research seems convincing. I’ve tried it several times in the last 20 years and each time it led to significant weight loss, which is my primary problem.

    The main difficulty I have with LCHF is that it’s tough to combine with a largely vegetarian diet, and that the lack of sugar, particularly in coffee and tea and biscuits, makes it hard to sustain. But that’s just me, I’m quite attached to sugar.

    federicakarasti
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    edited January 24

    @Arturo I never claimed, anywhere or at any time, that a LCHF diet was perfect for everyone. Not by a long shot. I certainly never said it was ideal or good for hypoglycemics. But the fact is, I am healthier now than I have been in the past 20 years. By all markers that doctors can measure. Despite what you might see suggested, I don't live on steak and bacon. I eat a lot of avocados, olives, greens, natural wild caught fish and game meat (whenever I can, otherwise whatever optimal meat I can find and afford). I eat virtually no grains and definitely no processed/junk food, and not a lot of fruit, though ask me in July when I am picking blueberries and raspberries and I'll answer differently, lol. I have no shortage of energy, I actually thrive on only about 6 hours a day of sleep and I exercise every day, including strength, yoga, running, snowshoeing, hiking and many other things. I am quite mobile and healthy.

    My view is simply that different people thrive on different diets, and we each have to find what works for us. If you are going to be advising people of dietary information, I hope you will consider having a more open mind beyond what the USDA (owned by fast food, diary, sugar etc lobbies) wanted you to learn.

  • How does LCHF diet affect cholesterol (total, LDL, or LDL/HDL) levels? Any anecdotes or reports of studies? I agree processed and simple carbs or sugars are not good and that onslaught of sugar spikes in blood is not good (glycemic index and load). But I want to lower my cholesterol so I am lowering both sugars/glycemic and also lowering my intake of saturated fat. I will see if it helps my cholesterol levels this summer when I have my yearly physical.

  • ToshTosh Veteran

    @karasti said:
    In ultraracing there are actually quite a lot of people who do keto, it is ideal for that kind of pursuit. When you start talking running 50KM+ it gets very hard to hold food down. When you are a carb-based athlete, you have to eat carbs, so they frequently end up with severe digestive issues because your digestion shuts down, so they keep eating but nothing digests and they end up throwing up and dehydrated. LCHF endurance athletes don't run into that because they don't "hit the wall" the way carb-based runners do. Their bodies are used to burning fat. And then they don't have to eat nearly so much. But it's just natural that a lot of exercise brings above cravings to eat everything in sight :lol:

    Yes, we read Primal Endurance, which is all about LCHF coupled with low heart rate training. And we followed it fairly strictly for about five months.

    We love it; we actually feel better on it.

    Mrs Tosh is an accomplished ultra marathon runner (originally carb based) and had even won a 100 mile ultra marathon in a little over 24 hours.

    But for a tough 46 mile one in the mountains, as our training mileage increased into the 'silly region', our sugar addictions got the better of us and we relapsed big-style. And we never got back on LCHF till 2 Jan 2018.

    Mrs Tosh has two ultra marathons this year; I'm not so sure; I find those weekends where you run back to back long runs killers (like double back-to-back 25 milers), so I'm planning on just running a marathon in April. And I'll make my mind up then whether I want to build on that for another ultra.

    One thing we do notice is that there's less muscle soreness (DOMS) when you're low carb. They reckon carbs is a 'dirty fuel' and fat is cleaner, which accounts for the better muscle recovery after an endurance session.

  • ToshTosh Veteran
    edited January 24

    @Kerome said:

    But that’s just me, I’m quite attached to sugar.

    Me too, but no healthy diet, low carb or not, would allow for the quantities I consume.

    I'm an 'all or nothing' guy; I can't have just a little bit.

    And who the heck just wants a little bit of chocolate anyway? O.o

    silver
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I am like that with sugar too, @Tosh and @Kerome. An addiction of sorts, I have no doubt. I simply cannot have a little of something and put it away. I will sit with a pie on my lap and eat half of it, even past the point it stops tasting good. Same with most sweets. Movie sized candy boxes in 10 minutes. etc etc. The only answer to me is to stay clear away from it. The part I enjoy most is that when I have something sweeter now, like a ripe strawberry, the sweetness is amazing. The way I taste food is so different and I love that. I also love that my gray hair is gone :lol: Even though I knew Christmas cookies would be overly sweet, it didn't stop me from hogging down on them! I am glad to be back on the wagon. I feel so much better when I am not bloated from carrying water weight that is needed to process carbs.

    I love ultrarunning! My body doesn't want to love it, but I do. I was sidelined from running for the past year with a cascade of issues likely stemming the whole time from a 5 year old knee injury. My boss is a trainer and he's helping me work out of that, layer at a time. Ran into piriformis issues, hip flexor, Si joint. Just a mess. So at this point I will be thrilled to run a 5k this summer.

    @Jeffrey I don't have the numbers in front of me but all of mine are well within normal range, as of September when I'd been LCHF for 6 months. I do eat a lot of plant fats (I should by stock in avocados at this point) and olives, but I also eat plenty of grass fed butter and eggs. I eat eggs every single day, actually.

    JeffreyTosh
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited January 25

    @karasti regarding eggs I think they found eating cholesterol (found in eggs) isn't bad to consume just saturated fat* in general is. There is saturated fat in egg yolks but not whites and probably relatively little in yolks compared to very fatty meats.

    And there are a couple of saturated plant fats that are bad such as palm oil and coconut oil. But olive and and avacado are good.

    I'm not sure about grass fed animal products. They say they have more omega 6 to omega 3 ratio compared to grain fed which is good. But they still have saturated fat I think.

    And I'm just trying to change my diet and see if it affects my blood labs cholesterol. I have some high values but not high enough at my age to start statins medicine but I want to get it even lower. Just exercise and a little moderation hasn't done the trick yet but the exercise has made me a lot fitter.

    *and cholesterol is not a 'saturated fat' (triglyceride fat with no double bonds)

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I don't have any limits, so I don't pay a ton of attention, honestly! We eat mostly poultry and fish and when we can, game meat which is incredibly lean. So in the case we are able to get game meat, they aren't just "grass fed" but were wild animals for years eating a variety of natural foods found in our area. I do not hunt, but many family members do so we trade. glad you don't have to be on statins yet, I've heard so many people who've had awful side effects! It will be interesting to see what changes you see.

    I am always interested in how our genetics affects how different foods react in our bodies. My ancestry (my great-grandparents, several of whom I knew growing up) is all Nordic and they immigrated here in the early 1900s so I'm not terribly far removed from the way they ate historically, and actually my parents grew up on largely traditional Nordic foods. It wasn't until the 60s where my parents became adults that our diets (in my family) changed, though we always had family staples and still do. Most of my family comes from near or above the Arctic Circle and lived on a lot of fatty foods as a result and I wonder how much that really plays into things. I find it all fascinating.

  • Regarding genes what I have read is not to get discouraged "it doesn't matter what I eat only my genes". That's kind of nihilistic in a sense in that what you do doesn't matter.

    I take the view that if I have genes (nature) of cholesterol that just means I need to change my behaviour/diet (or nurture) moreso than someone with good genes. And the 'good genes' I have like excreting sodium efficiently allow me to have good blood pressure and I don't need a salt restricted diet (nurture).

    Also I've read that genes upregulate and down regulate dependent on diet/lifestyle.

    Later on in this century it might be feasible to have a genetic DNA analysis to determine what diet or medications are likely to be best for you as an individual. Right now it's more a research direction and probably before good science is done there will be some scammish gene based diet companie$ to weed through at first.

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    Hey @karasti, 'ultrarunning' sounds horrible to me! Ack! :anguished:
    I can dig walking with various speeds or even sprinting.

    But I'm glad you said, ". I feel so much better when I am not bloated from carrying water weight that is needed to process carbs." I've watched YouTube videos until I'm blue in the face, about all this stuff and I don't recall that specific factoid tidbit. I think that explains a LOT! :3 You know my latest craving has been muffins - but they have to be from a certain grocery store, because the other ones I've tried have a too-moist nature that just feels like a mouthful of mush. (My go-to's are from Smart & Final, fwiw).

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Cholesterol is not the demon most doctors have hitherto made it out to be. My mother was said to have 'high cholesterol' and was prescribed statins. By altering her diet to LCHF/P, in much the same way karasti has, her cholesterol levels are fine. No statins required.
    "Cholesterol" has done much to keep many of the pharmaceutical giants rich in their retirement.
    Unless it is medically proven that your cholesterol levels are a risk to your wellbeing, and they have to be lowered, cholesterol should be the least of your worries.

  • ToshTosh Veteran

    One thing I like about LCHF is that you don't get that hungry-angry thing going on. Some days I just eat two meals and absolutely nothing in-between.

    And it's easy; no hunger.

    For me that's the 'magic'.

    I also think it's my body's way of saying "You're eating the right stuff", whereas when I'm on my standard rubbish diet, I was always feeling unsatisfied and having to eat more.

    Socairkarasti
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Yes: Carbs make me crave, proteins/fats keep me satiated.

    Socair
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited January 25

    @federica I wasn't sure if you were saying that eating cholesterol has been found to be safe or if you meant that blood levels of cholesterol, LDL, triglycerides, and LDL/HDL are unimportant. I would agree with the former (eating cholesterol not bad) but the latter I have read that those blood values are important markers of risk. I do agree that addressing the blood levels by diet and exercise is much better than taking a statin medicine.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Like I said, the negative qualities of cholesterol have been vastly exaggerated.
    One of the reasons dieticians changed their stance on eggs (I eat between 20 & 30/week, as does my ex-diabetic husband!) is because quite bluntly, they were completely wrong about the negative consequences of cholesterol.

    As I said, if you have strong medical grounds and clinical evidence to demonstrate that you need to monitor your cholesterol, then of course, you need to address that correctly, sensibly and logically via medical advice.
    But don't buy into the incorrect, inaccurate and misleading dictum that cholesterol is bad for you.
    There's no such thing as 'bad' cholesterol. There are only those who are sensitive for medical reasons, to cholesterol.
    And even that sensitivity can be amended via proper diet.

    I would never argue your diagnosis. You know what your condition is, and what your levels are.
    But don't be scared of cholesterol... <3

    Jeffrey
  • Federica I was just wanting a clarification between two different things. 1) Cholesterol consumption is bad. or 2) blood labs are not risk factors or exaggerated.

    So I still don't understand and need clarification. I agree that intake of cholesterol has been found to not be a problem. But cholesterol is not the same thing as saturated fat. Totally different molecules.

    So eating cholesterol is ok. But (I believe) eating a diet with saturated fat will result in cholesterol in blood stream which is different from intake in food. If someone who eats a very low saturated fat diet but high in egg whites that would mean they eat cholesterol but not saturated fat which again are two different molecules. That person would have low cholesterol in their blood even though they eat a lot of it.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Jeffrey, I'm sending you some links on discussions via PM. The reason is that they're discussions held on another forum, and I don't want to broadcast where general broadcasting may not have been the objective...

    Jeffrey
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    My understanding (I believe found in Phinney and Volek's Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance...something like that) is for many people who testing seems to show saturated fat is a risk, it is more likely the combination of carbs and saturated fat, and if the same people go low carb, they find that they actually don't have the issue with saturated fat that tests suggested. I'll see if I can find the info. It was pretty interesting. Excess carbs cause problems associated with body-made cholesterol more so than fat does because the over-production of cholesterol was a result of the body attempting to resolve issues caused by excessive carbs. That was the consensus if I remember right. I'll look this evening and see if I can find it. I'm sure I bookmarked or highlighted it.

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited January 25

    @karasti do you remember if they distinguished between what types of carbs make saturated fat worse? And amount of carbs? Glycemic index is how fast a carb goes into sugar in your system. Glycemic load is how much sugar goes in blood. So a carrot and a potato both have a relatively high glycemic index but a carrot is more healthy because it is lower calorie load than potato.

    I think it would be interesting to hear from the research if you a given saturated fat consumption what is the effect of no carbohydrates (so in ketone mode) or compare to differnt amounts and types of carbs. I would be surprised if intake of desserts and lots of processed foods (containing all purpose flour which has bran and 'germ' removed) had the same results as intake of whole grains, fruits, legumes, or other 'good carbs'..

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    You wouldn't think so, and honestly I was surprised myself (but those were my own personal results and not a study, lol). I gained weight on a 100% whole foods vegan diet. The only thing that changed was the ratio of carbs in my diet. Calories, exercise, everything was all the same. Even though I was eating quinoa and tons of veggies and fruit and lentils etc etc, I gained 8 pounds in 6 weeks. I'll see if I can find that info from the book now!

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