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LesC;56705 said:I saw this movie some time ago. It's one of those films, glad you saw it, don't need to THAT again!You are correct about depressing and graphically violent. Some people said it was too violent. I argue that over time the Christians have so 'sanitized' the crucifixion, that in popular parlance it pretty much bears no resemblance to a death, it's almost more of a 'trial'. Inconvenient and a nuisance.However, it would have been as horrific and terrible as depicted, and Christians are just not used to seeing that, it has become "a spiritual transformation'', and therefore it has been and is presented as something "liberating and uplifting" as opposed to what it was.Horrifcally Violent.
As it is however it's little more than a mainstream snuff film, and an excuse for Gibson to dress his obsession with violence in pious clothing.
Brigid;64872 said:Jeff (is that right?...)
That post was fantastic to me. Especially when you said; That sentence rings so true it's amazing.
Channah108;64899 said:that aside - i also didnt like the attempt to almost intertwine Judaism and christianity ... with the idea that Judaism was some how surpassed or completed by the Christian messiah...
Simonthepilgrim;23030 said:And Jesus was a sailor When he walked upon the water And he spent a long time watching From his lonely wooden tower And when he knew for certain Only drowning men could see him He said "All men will be sailors then Until the sea shall free them" But he himself was broken Long before the sky would open Forsaken, almost human He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone And you want to travel with him And you want to travel blind And you think maybe you'll trust him For he's touched your perfect body with his mind.L. Cohen
TheFound;64927 said:who thinks Jesus really existed? :confused: *cough* *cough* NOOBS :o
TheFound;64927 said:who thinks Jesus really existed? :confused:
TheFound;64927 said:who thinks Jesus really existed? :confused:*cough* *cough* NOOBS :o
Brigid;64998 said:Jesus is a real historical figure written about even by the Romans to say nothing of the Gospels etc. He really lived, TF. His existence is not a matter of opinion or faith but of fact. Who he was and what he was really like, on the other hand, are up for debate. :eek::D
Channah108;66443 said:for starters.. many of jesus followers would have been illeterate.. there is nothing i know of that was written down while he was still alive..
Channah108;66443 said:many of the gospels were written hundreds of years in some cases after jesus died..
Channah108;66443 said:that gave plenty of time for his legend to spread - and theres no way of knowing that the authors of the later gospels werent just working with the demand for stories about this now famous man god... a bit like the writters of today writing what they think people will want to read - in order to sell the most books...
RenGalskap;66448 said:That's also true of the Buddha. Of the four canonical gospels, the first was written shortly after the destruction of the second temple, and the last was written around 120 CE. Authors didn't make money by selling books to a large market in those days. It wasn't possible to mass produce books until the printing press was invented. :-) Every religious text is written by a particular community and represents what that community wants to believe. The only place where Jesus is mentioned outside of Christian literature is a passage in Josephus, and that appears to be a later forgery. On the other hand, there appear to be three different early traditions that claimed Jesus as their founder. That would be three different groups of people in three different geographical locations who would have to get together and conspire to lie about a common founding figure. Since they also created three different sets of narratives about Jesus, it seems as though they weren't collaborating. There are people mentioned in passing by ancient authors who aren't as well attested as Jesus, and no one doubts that they existed. I agree with everything else you wrote, Channah. Each of the gospels is a literary production based on previous literary productions and written to explain and teach a particular view of Jesus. Mel Gibson's film is also a literary production. When it came out, someone timed the various scenes and discovered that only about fifteen minutes of the film were taken from the gospels. Much of the rest came from written records of visions experienced by a rather anti-semitic nun who lived in the nineteenth century. So the film was produced in the same way the gospels were; it represents the beliefs of Mel Gibson's religious community (a conservative group of break away Catholics), it uses previous literary productionsas raw materials, and it organizes and extends those materials to teach a particular set of beliefs. BTW, the texts of all religions were created this way.
El(Heb. 'God') The name of the supreme God of the Canaanite pantheon...The relation of Yhwh to El/Elohim was initially one of subordination; El delegated responsibilities and nations to lesser gods. But gradually Yhwh, Israel's God, displaced El as the god...
tkdjohn;67883 said:Lets see how open minded you really are.
tkdjohn;67881 said:There were over 500 eye whitnesses to his resurection
The apostles died horrible deaths beheaded burnt at the stake etc.. for what they knew was the truth. That Jesus was who he said he was. Fully Man and fully God.
Some say that he was just a good moral teacher like Budda. He was either who he said he was or he was a liar or a crazy person claiming to be God. Roman and Jewish history never denied his miracles, only where his power came from.
God came to us in the flesh because we couldn't go to him. He laid down his life for those who hate him. Remember forgive them Father they know not what they are doing.
tkdjohn;67883 said:Please check out the book A CASE FOR FAITH AND A CASE FOR CHRIST. Lets see how open minded you really are.
'die horrible deaths beheaded burnt at the stake etc.. for what they knew was the truth.'
tkdjohn;67883 said:There were over 500 eye whitnesses to his resurection. All we need is circumstantial evedence to convict a murder. Those who think the Gospel is foolishness are parishing. We don't want to believe in God because we love our sin. We want to be the ceo's of our own life. Please check out the book A CASE FOR FAITH AND A CASE FOR CHRIST. Lets see how open minded you really are.
You know - there are lots of theories that wonder if jesus really existed... to be honest - there are lots of strong arguments in favor of his non - existance... for starters.. many of jesus followers would have been illeterate.. there is nothing i know of that was written down while he was still alive.. - many of the gospels were written hundreds of years in some cases after jesus died.. that gave plenty of time for his legend to spread - and theres no way of knowing that the authors of the later gospels werent just working with the demand for stories about this now famous man god... a bit like the writters of today writing what they think people will want to read - in order to sell the most books...
Palzang;44068 said:And it's important to remember that that is not at all what Christ taught. Palzang
allanstevns;71915 said:I think its very sad, that movies and bad semipriests seem to have convinced most of the population that, acording to christianity, you go to hell if you sin, or just dont beleive - That is NOT christianity at ALL. :winkc:
Lyssa;71923 said:Unfortunately, that is, in fact, Christianity. It may not be your interpretation of scripture, but it's certainly a reasonable one given the text and the one accepted by all the major sects. The New Testament is full of the Hell doctrine, so those who believe it to be accurate can be forgiven for espousing this view.
Palzang;72039 said:I think the point here is that the way Christianity is practiced by most people who call themselves Christians has very little to do with what Christ actually taught, and most of that never found its way into the Bible. You have to check out the Gnostic books for that.
Lyssa;72083 said:There is no reliable way to know that the Gnostic gospels are more accurate than the canonical gospels. Neither were written during Christ's lifetime (indeed, there is not much to indicate he ever lived) and both contain many contradictions. Additionally, there is much evidence that the versions we have of both are copies of copies.Logically, it's impossible that modern Christianity resembles Christ's version because he was a practicing Jew.@Simon: Before lamenting what Christianity has become, perhaps we should reflect on what is was. I'll take modern Christianity any day. Something about Inquisitions make me queasy.
Simonthepilgrim;72124 said:Forf me, the question of accuracy doesn't arise.
Simonthepilgrim;72124 said:As for Inquisitions, witch-hunts, pogroms, black lists and secret police, they do not make me 'queasy', they make me F*****G FURIOUS.
TheFound;72157 said:i wouldn't be so sure milady...
"He died for our sins". Really, what the heck does that mean? Somebody explain to me how this sacrifice changes anything. If I am a believer, then I am saved, off the hook for my past deeds, and I slide right into heaven?
One of my favorite movies was "The Last Temptation of Christ"