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wrestling with superiority feelings
One of my character flaws is that when I am exploring my spiritual side I tend to work hard and then feel better than others because of my self-apparent deepness. Recently, I've been repeatedly exposed to the idea that it is important to respect the divine part of everyone.
Feeling better than others because I am thinking hard about spiritual matters is kind of pointless and is a self-deception. Thinking about spiritual matters is just something that I am doing; other people are doing other things. It is a judgment, and a poor one, to assign a greater value to thinking about spirituality than whatever else someone else might be doing.
How can I first be more aware when I am slipping into this ego trap and what sorts of things will be good for me to think of instead to turn off the ego trap?
Feeling better than others because I am thinking hard about spiritual matters is kind of pointless and is a self-deception. Thinking about spiritual matters is just something that I am doing; other people are doing other things. It is a judgment, and a poor one, to assign a greater value to thinking about spirituality than whatever else someone else might be doing.
How can I first be more aware when I am slipping into this ego trap and what sorts of things will be good for me to think of instead to turn off the ego trap?
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Ajahn Sumedho
The more one practices and begins to feel they are making progress, there is a tendancy for pride to creep in, and sometimes even judgmentalism of others who are not as holy as me! Sort of like self-righteous vegetarians as just one example.
of course the second ego arises this way, then your aquired skill in meditation is no more than a skill in say...cooking, or playing a sport. It is very good though if you see this happening in yourself. otherwise there would be a real problem, but if you can see it, then you are not so far gone...in fact you are probably well on your way to real progress!
It is actually one of the things I love about Jodo Shinshu. Because it is not self power, but other power, and the only real practice is letting go and taking refuge in Amida, there is nothing to get proud or self-righteous about. If fact we have to face the reality that we are foolish beings filled with blind passions, utterly incapable of following any other path. Tough to get conceited about such things!
As a result JS followers tend to be a rather humble group. (of course there will always be different personality types in every group, but this is a trend I have noticed)
The mind does have a natural tendency to take this further and say "this makes me better" but in truth, it just means you have a different view than they do.
In the spirit of letting go, perhaps you can see the first without sliding into the second. Much like meditation, if you notice yourself looking falsely upon others as "worse than you", simply breathe in and recognize the truth, breathe out the old patterns of judging... much as you would any other thought that arises. Its normal, it happens to many of us, and, now, back to right view.
With warmth,
Matt
Many of us fall into a trap of feeling superior and more 'holy' than others and of clinging to personal views, whilst supposedly practising compassion - but its certainly a pointless self deception .
It's always good to meditate regularly and to let go of all the mental clutter.
Metta practice can be beneficial too -and also remembering that all beings suffer in different ways . Lots of info here....
http://www.buddhanet.net/metta.htm
If there's some spare time away from ones work occupation offline, as an option to sitting at one's computer for too long, its also good if one can involve oneself in activities which directly aid other beings in some way. One can then dedicate any personal spiritual benefit to all beings afterwards.The dedication of merit to others is a useful tool to direct any feelings of 'I did good' away from oneself.
Other than that, relax, don't take things too seriously and keep a sense of humor. Life is short and can end at any time for us all.
May all find the supreme happiness which is beyond 'this' and 'that'.
Kind regards,
Dazzle _/\_
.
Your in the Dharma,
Todd
This "ego trap" is often called spiritual materialism. I think most of us who abandon material pursuits embrace spiritual materialism at some point. Keep at your practice, read more and meditate regularly. Eventually you will get over this "other side of the coin".
Btw. the fact that you have identified it is a step in the right direction don't you think? Some of us don't even know
That is illusion, understand and eradicate. Meditate on your insignificance. Look up to the stars....
Divinity is illusion. Nothing is divine.
Don't confuse the spiritual with the divine.
Not sure on this. I am inclined to think time is spent better in non-deluded spiritual pursuits than, say, sport. "Work hard for Dharma..." and all that.
Know emptiness, impermanence and insignificance...
namaste
Such thoughts should invoke humility, in that the true deeper meanings of the Buddha's teachings have not yet been grasped. There is no superiority in the attribution of superiority to one's self. Transient, selfless phenomena such as the conditioned aggregates hold no superiority nor inferiority except where 'self'-delusion comes into play.
Namaste
Just remember that you're all the same and that you're all connected.
I have come to accept my brain and the crazy ways it "performs" and deludes itself, and I don't get carried off into space whenever I feel any of these two extremes anymore.
I think meditation and learning about Buddhism have helped me become more centered and calm.
I focus meditation in the morning on truly wishing them the very best and I find I don't hold resentment towards them, and I find their antics a little amusing.
Does that mean I still feel superior? Maybe but I don't feel this really elevates me above them. Some of my antics are a little amusing too.
I am going to go one better than everyone else on this one! I am so much better than everyone else here, because unlike them I admit that I still have conceit. Just kidding, of course!
There are three types of conceit that are to be adandoned: "I am better", "I am worse" and "I am the same". This puts the judgemental aspect of our mind in a real bind because that's all it knows; measurements. So the underlying problem is not that you think you are better than others, it is that you are measuring yourself against others. Even thinking that you are the same as others is unskilful!
Even Non-Returners (those who are almost fully enlightened, but not quite yet) are yet to fully abandon this fetter which goes to show just how tricky it can be. So long as you are not fully enlightened, there will be times when your mind is temporarily free of conceit, but the underlying tendency to pick it up is still there. I wouldn't worry about it too much, you are probably doing the best thing that can be done at this stage - i.e. simply noticing it is there. No need to feel guilty about it, just acknowledge that its a natural part of the human condition.
With Metta,
Guy
P.S. Another thing that I think is worth mentioning is that "pride" is a word that is used to describe both wholesome and unwholesome mindstates. In brief, "wholesome pride" (for lack of a better phrase) is when you think, for example, "I keep my precepts and practice meditation diligently". "Unwholesome pride", on the other hand, is when you think "I keep my precepts and practice meditation diligently...and these other people don't, aren't I special!" - again, a matter of measuring ourselves against others. If we are going to measure at all then I think we should measure where we are now compared to where we were a year or two ago (or even longer). And if you are a better person than you used to be, go ahead and feel proud about yourself and use it as motivation to keep practicing!
I think the belief that all are divien nature acted as a cleaning to you. It cleaned out some of that stuck thinking. But be careful not to get the cleaining tool itself stuck. The idea that all are divine is a tool but it too is just thinking. Just be spacious and there is some truth I think to what youwill see the divine good nature of people and their wish to be happy.
So, if I accomplish a difficult goal and feel good about my accomplishment appropriately it is a right thought, but if my thinking is more along the lines that I feel good because I did something that the other guy did not is, as a comparison / measurement to others, a not right thought?
but what lies beyond dependent origination altogether...
http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/090606%20Pride%20in%20Your%20Craft.mp3
all sorts of fetters can be expressed skillfully. so in this case we can have pride for ourselves on the path, but not arrogance; pride that we are worthy, pride that we know we are capable of higher paths and fruits, of being harmless, loving, etc.
The final solution to this problem is love, boundless love. When you love someone you are pleased by their good fortune and distressed b their problems, so there is no space for this sort of comparison to enter in.
Let's assume that what I mean by divinity (which may be different than what you hear when I say divinity) really is an illusion. Yet, if my attachment to the concept of divinity helps me cultivate loving kindness to all other people, would that be a skillful application of the illusory concept of divinity?
Even as I write this question, there is a part of me that looks forward to receiving praise for the deepness of my thinking. In response to this wrong thought, I wonder if I should post at all. Then I wonder, how many right actions are completely pure and untainted by even the slightest wrong thought? Probably not many. Does this slight taint make the actions not right? I do not think so, it is just a reflection of our imperfect selves.
So I ask myself, do I honestly want an answer to my question, even if no one praises the deepness of my thinking? Yes, I do. In fact, the desire for praise thought didn't form until I was done writing the question and reviewing it for spelling and grammar errors. So I will post the question. I will also post this internal dialog as it is relevant to this thread.
I tend toward extremes. Finding the middle way is difficult for me. I think right now I will just be mindful of that desire for praise and assess how much of a given action is influenced by said desire. I think somewhere, there is a place where one can smile when receiving praise while not having sought the praise in the first place. If I were to just beat my desire for praise into submission, I run the risk of moving to the place where one believes praise is bad - to a sort of false humility.
Wow! What a deep thinking, mindful and amazing person you are!
I'd say don't worry... you worry too much! Just notice the feeling of desire for praise, then move on. As you do that, you cultivate mindfulness which eventually will allow for that other stuff to not come up. First, you notice and are disturbed. Then you notice and are not disturbed. Then you notice it is not present. Then you simply notice the rest of the things that were hidden by the other mind-junk. Don't worry, just notice!
It sounds like you want to make sure you are placing your feet on stable ground as you step. This can be good and bad. On the good side, you can develop skillfulness as to where you place your feet. On the bad side, you create anxiety over the possibilities of placing your foot in that spot (or thinking that thought).
As far as divinity, the personal carrot we use to develop metta for everyone doesn't really matter. Some people use their parents, some children, some buddha, some the divine. Much like any other object of meditation, the object is just a tool to bring our mind home, not really the reason. I personally believe that the energy of life has an intelligence behind it, but that doesn't make my love for my neighbor any less or any more available.
When the object of our metta development becomes problematic is when we become convinced other people should not have theirs because it is different than ours.
What a great and powerful being you are for having read and understood this far!
With warmth,
Matt
While I know that I learn more from my failures than my successes, I really, really do not like to fail. This leads to a kind of paralysis prior to the take action step of new endeavors. Still much room for improvement in the letting go area.
I smiled after reading the praise you offered. Thank you.
I then decided to share my smile by petting my dogs and hugging wife.
This is one of the reasons why I struggle with meditation practice (as I have struggled over the years also with other things, like trying to improve my health/fitness). If I start to feel like this might mean that I grow or otherwise improve as a person, I shy away from it.
So where do I go - do I tackle the root causes of this (as I have been trying for aout a decade) or just try to sidestep the whole issue by trying to understand that it's all essentially meaningless - status, superiority (or lack of), my ability to undermine others by just being me and trying hard at whatever I do, and the risk of being disliked because of it.
I wonder if you're even failing if you make a mistake! Wouldn't the real failure only be if you lacked learning? Otherwise, mistakes are a natural process of getting things right... like zeroing in a scope on a target. Taking in the information "oh, isn't that interesting... two clicks to the left on the next shot" except of course the shots are your intentions. The more you shoot, the more you observe skillfully, the more fluidly you adjust, the more you learn, the more potent and loving you become. Maybe?
I would say that the paralysis you experience is more the "failing" than making an unskillful decision. Heck, we all make unskilful decisions until we don't. Even deciding to not decide is a decision,
I guess people don't praise you as much when you make mistakes though, huh?
With warmth,
Matt
Anna,
First, I'd like to say that what you seem to be experiencing is normal for many people. I have heard first hand accountings of that very experience, read many stories of people who arrive at the same kinds of discomfort. Its tough to live that way, and I admire your courage!
Next, I'd like to suggest a great book by Melody Beattie titled "Codependent No More" because it seems to me you live a lot of your time outside your own head in the heads of others. Not wanting to achieve because of what might go through another's mind. Not wishing praise because it feels uncomfortable to be regarded... those kinds of things. I can't say for sure without knowing you more deeply, but from the brief words you're saying it sounds very much like codependent perceptions.
The book goes into a lot more detail, but the basic gist is: You own your thoughts and feelings, and do not create feelings in others. Other people do not create your thoughts and feelings, you do. Other people who tell you that you are making them feel or think something are wrong... and often times this is where it starts. Parents telling their children that "you make me unhappy", "you make me drink alcohol" "you make me angry" and on and on. This is simply not how feelings work, we are not responsible for the feelings of others.
If that feels like something that goes through your mind, I highly recommend reading the book, I have found it to be very direct and helpful. The other things you say "status, superiority (or lack of), my ability to undermine others by just being me and trying hard at whatever I do, and the risk of being disliked because of it" sound like symptoms of that pattern, and do not need to be addressed directly. They will simply vanish as you learn more healthy mental patterns of responsibility.
With warmth,
Matt
One way the Buddha describes whether something is right or not is very simple: Ask yourself "Does [whatever it is in question] lead to harm for myself or for others or for both?" Does feeling good about yourself because you have become a better person harm you or anyone else? If not, then I'd say its skilful!
Well done, you deserved praise! What you said earlier was very open and honest which is so important to spiritual growth. When you are praised for saying something "right" (and I don't mean "right" in a "correct" way that people use to win arguments, but "right" in a spiritually wholesome way) then don't be afraid to accept that. Its when you are praised for, say, downing a yard glass of beer in 8.5 seconds that you should not be proud of yourself. In other words, learn for yourself what is praiseworthy and what is blameworthy, then it doesn't even matter so much whether you are praised or blamed - you already know if you did the right thing or not - the praise is just the icing on the cake.
Keep up the good work!
from what i've gathered till arahatship we'll always have some form of conceit. when you have any interesting experience in meditation, there will always be some trace of conceit and ego that follows till that point.
[action=onewiththirst]slides over to make room for Anna at the driver seat[/action]
By all means, please help me steer this thread. Maybe together we can both get closer to the middle way.
I'm a boy, so sometimes it is hard for me to find the right words for emotions. It doesn't help that the way I use words is different than the way others use words. Please ask me to clarify if something doesn't make sense or if you think I am misunderstanding you.
What I hear from you when you say, "I am scared to excel because others will feel inferior to me," is "I am so important that the world will stop and take notice when I excel at something - they will be so struck with awe at my abilities that they will have no choice but feel unworthy."
Just as people, not even as students of Buddha, we all have different strengths and weaknesses. Think about someone who does something that you do that is important to you, but is more experienced and better at it. Does being with them when they do this activity make you feel bad? Do you view the time as an opportunity to learn to do the activity better? Do you just appreciate their ability as beauty, particularly since you know how difficult it is for?
If you view their ability as a learning experience or as a chance to appreciate beauty, isn't it logical that at least one person in the world would have the same thoughts regarding something you excel at?
Yes, Sankhara. The link in unneccesary. Why do people try to "prove" their point on practice this way? Do you actually practice? Can you speak from that? Are you practicing one-day-when..? (very conventional time) or are you practicing now?
......once again..... Never met a "potential". Being a Zen practitioner there is a different take on this. This moment is alone, is full. Awake is awake, not-awake is not-awake. Taking a measure with an eye to future attainment is not indulged. And last I checked with Theravadin friends letting-go was now for them too.
Suffering is now. Not suffering is now.
namaste
Of course, all is dukka, nausea is dukka.
so there..:p
Sorrrry there thick. I got a case of forum head. You know, perpetual one-up-manship, right/wrong blah blah blah. Thank goodness there is a retreat coming up. :rolleyes:
It's Victoria Day in Canada, and we're going on a picnic:)
I know it very well. Illusionary egos locking horns. Lost wanderers thinking their path must be the only path.
Its all good, but don't back off from the retreat;)
In no way am I personally immune to this complex of superiority you're talking about but it has gotten better. Somehow overtime I have started taking my own thoughts less seriously, not at their face value. Sometimes I feel them as impersonal, mechanical agitation in my brain that happens to carry verbal content. Something itches and then stops itching and the less I scratch it, the better.
The key, it seems to me, is to take a tiny step back and observe my thinking the way I watch a movie. There can be some intense stuff on the screen, but ultimately I feel that it's a concoction and when it's over, I'll get up and go elsewhere. Making humorous mental comments about the "author" of the thoughts like "oh, this is one pissed-off bugger here" or "this guy is so full of himself that he's about to burst" is fun and helps in compromising the illusion that mental activity is something fundamenally real and important...
I totally agree with this. I used to be totally broken over the "bad" thoughts my mind produces sometimes, but then I started meditating and I've learned to just "listen" to what my mind has to say and move along.
I don't get stuck thinking ill of myself anymore, for a weird or strange thought I just had and this includes those "I'm better than you" thoughts as well.
Thank you. This is helpful.