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Illusory?..
I've heard that buddhism is well grounded in concepts suggesting that life, reality or perhaps it's perception is an illusion. I'm unsure as to how deep the roots of that claim are founded in the first place, but i've been thinking about it nonetheless. Does this refer to the discriminative mind's subjective labelling of objects? Or objects themselves as the illusion? I'm aware that a couch is just a cluster of comfy atoms, and am also aware that the only value to which i assign the couch is meaured mainly in the tactile feeling of comfort i percieve when I hedonistically plonk myself on it, so is the couch not then a projected subjective illusion or desire of my body? Am i creating the couch from my perceptions? Of these things, I am also aware that this is nothing but frivolous raving.. Equal to the parable of the poor fella with the arrow protruding from his body, who demanded details or the shooter, make and length of arrow etc.. so you need not reply if you feel it's not dignifiable with response.. It's just been on my mind for a long time, and i'm growing restless with it. Thanks.
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Some Buddhists believe that the external reality is an illusion dependent on the subject.
Others believe that there is a real world out there independent of the subject.
Dharama is compatible with both views, I think.
What all paths of Buddhism lead to is about the very real illusionary nature of the ego, the damage it does and the time it wastes.
Hope that explains a bit!
namaste
... and the illusionary nature of ourselves.
We kinda delude ourselves about the illusionary ego. Double whammy!
The premise of the holographic paradigm is thus:
- That the universe is in some sense a holographic structure
- That consciousness is dependent on holographic structure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_paradigm
Now, this understanding is how I understand the illusory reality concept in Buddhism.
I don't agree with others notions that the world is an illusion because things are impermanent and arise and decay, or that things are interconnected and don't have a isolated existence. I agree with these precepts, but I don't agree that they are the reason existence is illusory.
I think the Buddhist notion of Emptiness makes this clear. As Bodhidharma said, "All existence is empty." The fundamental "stuff" that makes up the Universe isn't solid, isn't physical, isn't real, it is holographic, or in Buddhist terms, Empty.
As noted in my signature: "A wise man, recognizing that the world is but an illusion, does not act as if it is real, so he escapes the suffering." - the Buddha
.
Aren't your memories of childhood illusory or unreal?
How about last year, yesterday or this morning?
What about a moment ago?
The only thing you can experience is the now. Everything else is just like a bubble or illusion. At least your body appears more permanent.
I really like that. I would just add:
<style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } --> </style> The Short Teaching Regarding the Heart of Perfect Wisdom
The sincere practitioner Avalokitesvara
while intently practicing the Perfection of Wisdom Meditation
perceived that all of the five phenomenal aggregates are empty of inherent existence
and was thereby saved from all suffering and distress.
He told Shariputra:
Form does not differ from emptiness,
emptiness does not differ from form.
That which is form is emptiness,
that which is emptiness is form.
The same is true of feelings,
perceptions, impulses, and consciousness.
Shariputra,
all perceived phenomena are marked with emptiness.
They do not appear or disappear,
they are neither tainted nor pure,
nor do they increase or decrease.
Therefore, in emptiness there is no form, no feeling,
no perception, no impulse, and no consciousness.
There is no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind;
no color, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch,
no object of mind,
no mind to perceive,
and so forth
until it is clear that there is no realm of mental consciousness.
There is no ignorance nor extinction of ignorance,
and so forth until no old age and death
and also no extinction of these phenomena.
There is no suffering, no origination,
no stopping, no path, no cognition,
nor is there attainment, because there is nothing to attain.
If the sincere practitioner depends on the Perfection of Wisdom Meditation,
and the mind is not a hindrance,
without any hindrance no fears exist.
Far apart from every incorrect view one dwells in the final state of seeing clearly.
In the innumerable worlds and dimensions
all sincere practitioners depend on the Perfection of Wisdom Meditation
and thereby attain the final state of seeing clearly.
Therefore know that the Mantra of the Perfection of Wisdom
is the great transcendent mantra,
the great clarifying mantra,
the ultimate mantra,
the supreme mantra
which is able to relieve all suffering,
is perfectly clear,
and is beyond any mistaken perception.
So proclaim the Mantra of the Perfection of Wisdom.
Proclaim the mantra which says:
gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha.
“Gone Beyond, gone beyond, gone completely beyond, gone to the other shore.
Clarity.
So it is.”
And until we have experienced this for ourselves, trying to understand it intellectually doesn't really cut it. For example: if you have never sneezed, try to understand it by having someone explain it to you ... you'll never really get the full import, the full magnificence of a sneeze.
but do not think that they are mere empty or illusion, just place your hand at the door and slamp it - you will feel the real pain , the suffering is real my friends
hence the great teacher Tientai ( chi-i ) taught about the 3 truths of our reality , the truth of emptiness, the truth of temporary existence and the truth of the middle way
Only seeing our reality from the 3 different angles at the same time, we are then able to grasp the reality
I would say it refers to perception. However, there is a very close relationship between perception & objects.
Mt Kosciusko is obviously something very substantial. But its existence is dependent on mind, both in terms of consciousness (seeing, touching) & perception (labelling).
So when either or both consciousness & perception cease, the illusory quality occurs.
Subjectively, the object ceases to be (although objectively, it remains).
The illusory quality happens to the mind. It is something mental.
Basically, yes. But the couch is still useful.
Indeed. No need to say 'sorry'.
The Buddha was primarily concerned with letting go or non-clinging for this is the state of non-suffering.
As for existence & non-existence, the Buddha spoke as follows:
Per the philosophy of Dharmakirti: Reductive analysis demonstrates the conceptual illusory nature of physical (composite) phenomenon. (paraphrased) An example he used was a water-jug. If what we perceive - that which is conceptually referred to as - a water-jug was suddenly thrust to the ground our (temporal) conception of water-jug has now vanished and been (temporally) replaced by a mass of jumbled shards, which in turn could be further reduced ...ad nausum until reached, what he viewed as, "ultimate reality": an irreducible "singularity" which all composite existence derive from..thus effectively rendering them an illusory product of "conventional reality".
All those thoughts create a reality in which we actually go to barbados, eat lunch, avoid the jerk, and get drunk...
But those thoughts from which the reality emerged are actually very spacious... And they create a world that seems very concrete through karma I guess? Anyhow been listening to Pema Chodron. If you want more on this topic try her book, Start Where You Are...
Bodhicitta is a seed of space (shunyata) and warmth (compassion)
How can we 'waste' time when time itself is a delusion that we create to explain why one damn thing appears to happen after another? Reflecting on, and seeing through, how we create our delusions allows us to see the "gaps" in our picture, the space between our thoughts of which Sogyal Rinpoche writes.
Amen.
To the OP, I think the whole illusion thing is insignificant. It's like 2 guys yelling at each other, one saying "the yin yang is made of a black symbol on a white circle" and the other insists "no! its obviously a white symbol on a black circle!!" None of that matters though, the yin yang just is. I think some teachers suggest viewing the world as illusion to show people that what they always took dead seriously doesn't really matter
Mtns