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Celibacy in Buddhism

edited June 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Forgive me if there is a thread on this already (I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum)...

I want to get everyone's thoughts on abstinence for Buddhists. Do any of you practice it? Should we practice it? Clearly this is a tough thing to give up - especially for those of us with spouses - my spouse would be none too pleased :)

Comments

  • edited June 2010
    What tradition and school of Buddhism are we discussing? Are you talking about talking vows, or just practicing as a layperson?
  • edited June 2010
    You sound like you are married. If you intend to stay married, i would not take a vow of celibacy, unless your wife does too. :) I hope that you have a satisfactory marriage, and that you love each other. It is up to you both to decide on how you engage in "you know". You can still practice Buddhism. Learn to have less and less ego in your daily life. Do random acts of kindness to people, even one's you do not know. Spend a little time my yourself meditating and finding the silence in your self. There is plenty to do without being celibate.
    Good luck!
  • ansannaansanna Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Celibacy does not mean that you will attain Buddhadhood faster than the other, but it is a voluntary to use the one life to preserve the purity of the Buddha teaching to the further generations , and allow the people around to build confidence on the Buddha teaching. It is all due to the great compassion to liberate those who are suffering ,
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited June 2010
    popeschmoll,

    I wrestled with this one as well, because my partner and I engage in sexual activity regularly, yet I wished to be furthering the development of my mental stillness and cessation of dukkha. As a layperson, I have come to the conclusion that sexual activity is not a problem... its another action like any other.

    The challenge is that sexual activity often removes mindfulness. We might get pulled into sensual experience, and lose our focus. My parter and I engage in mindful sexual experiences, which have become so much more rewarding and passionate and direct than either of us have ever experienced before.

    I suggest picking up a book on tantric sex... even if you're not into the vajrayana, there is usually a lot of information on how to give proper honor to the senses and feelings of your partner, and the couple that I have looked at or read have been about practical activities that will open your experience to include mindfulness practice before, during and after.

    Unless you become a monastic buddhist, celibacy isn't really required or suggested. Giving up sensual craving is suggested, so you might bring about sexual union out of compassion and connectedness with your partner, rather than because you are horny.

    With warmth,

    Matt
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited June 2010
    In Tibetan Buddhism (and, I suspect, the other schools as well), for lay people, sex is fine, but one should avoid hurting another through sex (either physically or emotionally).
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited June 2010
    Forgive me if there is a thread on this already (I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum)...

    I want to get everyone's thoughts on abstinence for Buddhists. Do any of you practice it? Should we practice it? Clearly this is a tough thing to give up - especially for those of us with spouses - my spouse would be none too pleased :)

    My opinion is that, as far as awakening is concerned, celibacy is really only beneficial in the context of a well-developed meditation practice, or for someone who's in the process of developing one. As lay-followers, we're not required to remain celibate; however, it seems to be the general consensus among Theravadin orthodoxy (which I'm more familiar with) that sex and masturbation do nothing for spiritual awakening and can actually get in the way of it.

    The Pali literature basically takes the position that sexual intercourse is an obstruction or impediment (antarayika dhamma) to obtaining awakening. In AN 4.159, for example, Ananda explains to a bhikkhuni, who's apparently sick, that sexual intercourse is to be abandoned in the practice of the holy life. (Incidentally, the background to this story details that the bhikkhuni in question was faking her illness so that Ananda would come to see her. She was very infatuated with him, and when he realized this, he gave her this particular discourse.)

    Another example can be found at the beginning of MN 22. Here, the Buddha is portrayed as rebuking a monk for his views regarding sex. While not explicitly stated in the sutta itself, the commentary to this sutta mentions that the wrong view of the offending monk, Arittha, dealt specifically with the monastic training rule prohibiting sexual intercourse.

    The note given to this section of the sutta concerning "obstructions" by Nyanaponika Thera explains this in more detail. Simply put, for a monastic who's dedicated fully to the holy life, it's a serious hindrance to their practice. After all, the duty of the noble disciple is to discern the allures and drawbacks of, and escape from, sensuality, physical form and feeling (MN 13). And if you look to the Buddha's teachings in general, there's nothing in them that suggests there's anything skillful in giving in to sensual desires, including those of a sexual nature. Moreover, Buddhism doesn't encourage the casual fulfillment of sensual desires as much as it encourages their eventual abandonment, which further supports the idea that sex can be an obstruction to awakening.

    This is essentially the case made by Ajahn Brahm and Ajahn Nanadhammo in "Buddhist Sexual Ethics - A Rejoinder." While this shouldn't be taken as an absolute rejection of sex as it mainly pertains to monastics who have gone forth, it does strongly suggest that sex can be a serious hindrance to awakening for those of us who are interested in pursuing the path the very end. Nevertheless, even if this is true, I think our old friend Kris (who I wish was still around) made an excellent point in a similar discussion we had a few years ago:
    From "Buddhist Sexual Ethics - A Rejoinder":
    "Now, Udàyin, the pleasure and joy that arises dependent on these five cords of sensual pleasure are called sensual pleasures - a filthy pleasure, a coarse pleasure, an ignoble pleasure. I say of this kind of pleasure that it should not be pursued, that it should not be developed, that it should not be cultivated, that it should be feared... (whereas the pleasure of the Four Jhànas). This is called the bliss of renunciation, the bliss of enlightenment. I say of this kind of pleasure that it should be pursued, that it should be developed, that it should be cultivated, that it should not be feared." (ibid p.557)...
    ...I have stated how sensual pleasures provide little gratification, much suffering, and much despair, and how great is the danger in them.

    but that:
    The pursuit of self-mortification... is the wrong way. Disengagement from the pursuit of self-mortification... is the right way... The Middle Way discovered by the Tathàgata avoids both these extremes... it leads... to Nibbàna."

    The accompanying commentary (perhaps unsurprisingly) provides a very "monastic" slant on the above quotes. Rather than issuing a blanket command to "give it up", as some teachers do, Buddha demonstrated the means by which this attachment will fade of itself - the bliss of Jhana.

    That bliss and renunciation are the same thing, indicates that this is no miserable, cold-shower-style repression, rather something quite different and unique. So how can renunciation of something we enjoy be blissful? It can only be blissful when we see the nature of the agitation of the mind (insight) from within the calm of Jhana (samatha). This is entirely unlike any kind of worldly bliss and is termed a pleasure not-of-the-flesh.
    A blissful process is also utilised in the inner fire teachings of highest yoga tantra but as a means to an end - not an end in itself.

    Just "giving it up" won’t work for most people and could be the first step on the path of self-mortification. It involves denial and what help is that when one dies? The desire, the volition, is still latent within the stream (although repressed). Only when true relinquishment occurs, through meditation, can it be deemed worthwhile and I feel that Buddha’s Middle Way must be interpreted in this way.
  • edited June 2010
    good stuff Jason - what I take out of all that is celibacy is only a bandaid. Is this a sensible conclusion? What needs to happen is to actually extinguish the desire altogether? Believe me, I would love nothing more than to extinguish the desire completely. IMO it's a terrible desire, and one that will never, ever be satisfied.
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Technically, 'celibacy' means 'the state of being unmarried', so if you already have a spouse, it's a little late to worry about it.

    As for sex, nothing wrong with that in a loving relationship. (Buddha had many well known lay disciples.)
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited June 2010
    good stuff Jason - what I take out of all that is celibacy is only a bandaid. Is this a sensible conclusion? What needs to happen is to actually extinguish the desire altogether? Believe me, I would love nothing more than to extinguish the desire completely. IMO it's a terrible desire, and one that will never, ever be satisfied.

    No, I wouldn't say that celibacy is a band-aid, more like a supplemental practice that can be beneficial in the right context, such as that of a well-developed meditation practice (as it leaves you with more energy and time to practice). However, if you're in a loving relationship, sex is a perfectly natural and health thing, and I don't see anything inherently wrong with it.
  • edited June 2010
    Celibacy isn't required for lay practitioners.

    As Matt put it aptly, sex has the tendency to remove mindfulness. I find this not such a big deal, because sexual activity doesn't take up that much time. :D It often get's overlooked that craving is the problematic aspect. By this, I don't just mean having sexual thoughts, but all the activities that are connected with it. A well developed craving can take up a significant part of one's life. If one craves romantic relationships, for example, a great part of energy and time is spent on courtship, wooing, and establishing relationships, especially if partners change frequently. Such a lifestyle is likely to be incompatible with the Buddhist path.

    Cheers, Thomas
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Celibacy isn't required for lay practitioners.

    As Matt put it aptly, sex has the tendency to remove mindfulness. I find this not such a big deal, because sexual activity doesn't take up that much time. :D It often get's overlooked that craving is the problematic aspect. By this, I don't just mean having sexual thoughts, but all the activities that are connected with it. A well developed craving can take up a significant part of one's life. If one craves romantic relationships, for example, a great part of energy and time is spent on courtship, wooing, and establishing relationships, especially if partners change frequently. Such a lifestyle is likely to be incompatible with the Buddhist path.

    Cheers, Thomas
    Is it ever. That's roughly how I used to live and it was deeply miserable. Just a brutally painful way to live.
  • edited June 2010
    Forgive me if there is a thread on this already (I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum)...

    I want to get everyone's thoughts on abstinence for Buddhists. Do any of you practice it? Should we practice it? Clearly this is a tough thing to give up - especially for those of us with spouses - my spouse would be none too pleased :)

    Since you have a spouse I am guessing you arent a monk or nun. Since you arent a monk or nun celibacy is irrelevant to your situation.
  • ZendoLord84ZendoLord84 Veteran
    edited June 2010
    I like to have sex with the girl I love, but I do not endulge myself in porn, cheating, one-night-stands and stuff....

    As I see it, buddhism is not so much about NOT doing things, it's about HOW you do them.....
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