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Budhism and escapism
i wonder about budhist monks- to me it seems they are escaping the world. i know they say they are spending time looking at themselves and bettering themselves- i can understand this. but they are still doing it in a peaceful society away from the world without worldy temptations to tempt them and with only other hard working budhists around them who share their views.
why can't they do this in the real world? why must they remove themselves? why can't they use the real world as their mirror, as well as introspection. what good is it if they get enlightened if nobody else is around to benefit ( as they are down in society) it is easy to achieve peace in a garden of eden. but much harder in the real world = just would like to know other "thinking" people's views on this
why can't they do this in the real world? why must they remove themselves? why can't they use the real world as their mirror, as well as introspection. what good is it if they get enlightened if nobody else is around to benefit ( as they are down in society) it is easy to achieve peace in a garden of eden. but much harder in the real world = just would like to know other "thinking" people's views on this
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But this is just book-based idealization. True, the tall tales may draw the rest of us forward, but they are tales, just like any other tales. Are monks and nuns different from lay men and women? Sure. Are they no different at all? Sure. Sure ... and so what?
Gautama was once said to have said, "It is not what others do and do not do that is my concern. It is what I do and do not do -- that is my concern." We can all be informed by what others do, but we still -- monk or layman -- have to take a leak in the morning. No one in their right mind expects someone else to take a leak for them. Monks are monks because they are monks. Laymen are laymen because they are laymen. Circumstances may vary -- seem more bitter or sweet -- but everyone has to take a leak in the morning.
The only question that counts is, "Now what?"
Obviously if you have a job and get paid for it even without being a monk you're serving people as well. But I did not argue with him, because he is still serving people. That's just his way of wanting to do it.
Some people cannot afford to see therapists. Maybe seeing a monk will help improve their way of thinking and their lives when they couldn't get help from anyone else. So there are benefits to having monks around. I wouldn't do it, but they can still be happy.
i have given this alot of thought, and truly im hoping someone can challenge this-as to why it is not an escape.
im not saying it's exactly a garden of eden- but it is FAR FAR EASIER to be peaceful when you are around like minded people all following the precepts and meditating and aspring for budhahood, as well living more or less a solitary existence in nature.
to me this just seems like a big cop out. how can you get enlightened if your not in this messy world of road rage, screaming kids on the street, angry sales clerks, that test you regularly...to me this world IS the true test. and if they really want to help people they should be here in the cities helping !!! ( yes i know we all get a token few monks in every temple but come on, most of them are far away in monataries- not much good for most people)
after meditating for years, and practicing budhism, who wouldnt want to live the dharma with like minded people--- im not saying its easy- but it is 1000 times harder to live like that but IN the world- with not only YOUR mind to deal with but ALSO the world with its own agendas and multitude of challenges...not in a simple world with other aspirants ( who are at least aiming to be peaceful) and trees and some mosquitos = ( i would rather put up with mosquitos and sleeping on a hardwood floor than go back to one of my high stress work days in nyc !)
of course people will be drawn to what they are drawn to. but in the end, it is much easier to achieve peace there no matter how you cut it.
until i can find some other reason- i can't help but feel this is cheating, taking an easy way out. contrast that with a "monk" living in society trying to achieve enlightenment- with intolerant family members, people with egos that test ur patience etc..etc..
also didn't budha talk of the middle path ? and didn't he leave his life as an ascetic ?
also how do monks really serve people ? i have never even see the few monks in the temple i went to hardly bother to interact with people only my Rinpoche did !
the monks for the most part are living in monastaries far away, this seems so selfish. they should be here helping themselves and us, not there helping themselves. i think they should at least move the monastaries into the cities or something.
the only way they seem to serve people is by letting people stay in their monasteries ( for those with "good karma" - a rationale i am sure is used, rich enough to travel to those far away places and take month or so off work !!) when i think of myself contemplating being a nun- i can't shake that this is an act of selfishness in a way- and doing it the easy way.
haven't u often heard the saying in regards to budhism- oh you don't need to go to India to find peace, you can find it right here and right now ?
Not much thought about it, but definitely agree.
The defilements of the mind vary from coarse to refined, and the more the person is on the spiritual path the more subtle the defilements become and hence are harder to catch, so if someone is in the lay life with people with wrong views and ranging defilements, the mind is very easily affected and that work that one does is lost easily.
Also to understand that the mind is a completely conditioned process, it gets conditioned by the environment we live in, especially the perceptions of the mind which is the one which filters information when it enters the mind. So if one is associating with people with wrong view the perceptions of the mind are already strongly influenced by those people leading to tremendous confusion in the practice, so it better that one seek the company on those with right view, this is also the reason that monks avoid lay people a lot since lay people have a lot of defilements and wrong views in comparision to the monks.
Also don't forget that the monks follow a higher moral code which is impossible for a lay person to follow. This moral code increase the quality of meditation.
The Buddha in the suttas mention that when contact with sense objects occur, the mind is immediately. The sort of mind that is required for the development of true insight is a very still refined mind and cannot be just exposed to the sights,sounds,tastes,smells,tactile sensations that the worldly life exposes people to.
Not to mention the lay life is a very busy one, and requires lot of worldy activities and burdens and one is too tired to focus on the spiritual life that easily. Considering that enlightenment is something which takes life times of spiritual work, living the lay life and wanting to become enlightened is going to be extremely time consuming and at times even impossible. Not to mention that monks have renounced worldliness on the external level and hence it will be easier to renounce it on the mental level also. Also, true monks are those who ordain for the sake of becoming enlightened not for the sake of just leading an easy life. And such people's lives are extremely difficult.
Also the monks are the carriers of the Buddha Dhamma and maintain it in it's most pure and deep teaching, by not just reading it and also by practicing it. The also influence the lay community on how to lead a more peaceful and happier life,also on how to progress spiritually.
They are also considered the incomparable field of merit for the world, because of their purity.
I'm assuming that you follow the Tibetian(Mahayana) tradition, but my answers are with reference to the training of the Theravada tradition. Especially the Thai Forest tradition.