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Tone of discussions
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@Prometheus-- good point. We had a thread once about how posts can be misunderstood because of the limitations of the written medium. It helps to make an extra effort to be clear about one's intentions, by issuing a sort of disclaimer, like: "I don't mean to needle you, I'm genuinely curious", or,"I'm not making fun of you, ...", that sort of thing.
As for zen_world, I just figured maybe he got up on the wrong side of the bed today, or hit a rough patch in life. We can deal with that. I haven't noticed any "combative" threads or comments from him before this week.
...or maybe the forum has hit a little rough patch, lol! Relax, everybody.
Exactly.
Now, that does not change the fact that I don't think certain tones, methods of communication, etc make discussion a negative environment unnecessarily, but it does make me reflect on how I let my expectations, especially the ones I consider the most fair and reasonable, affect my state of mind. I wish that others could see things the same way that I do, of course, and I feel reasonably certain that I've been recognizing my own possibility of error where I don't feel others have, but I should not be letting this play out this way, as it affects myself and others in the negative as well.
Anyway, I don't take back my previously stated assertions, but I think I've gotten past the point of feeling the need to make further issue out of it. Certain behaviors still rub me the wrong way and it will still give rise to negative thoughts, but I should be turning that into reflection rather than reaction.
Alright, I guess I feel satisfied with my self-defense, etc now, so that's that, lol.
Implicit in this is that I am not wrong for disagreeing rather I am suffering agitation and thus not thinking clearly and expressing gently and to benefit.
I am sorry a newcomer would be dissuaded
For example, when folks wish to discuss their personal problems, tones are empathetic because folks take what is said seriously. folks have compassion
But when folks post non-sense about their esoteric insights then naturally tone changes
This is what is meant by "the proper time"
When folks post non-sense about their esoteric insights, it is the proper time for Mara to pay them a visit, just like when Mara visited the Buddha often to test the reality of his attainment
:eek:
:rolleyes:
Jokes.
intolerance masks itself is so many ways, the most deceptive mask being "goodness"
imo, folks need to learn to respect the opinions of others and learn to take responsiblity for what they write
so if we write something and receive a disagreeable reply, that is due to what we wrote
Buddhism does not recommend we blame others for our state of mind"
This seems about right. You have to be a little tough to get the fruit of the internet discussions of buddhism. I learned that in aol chat but boy there is some bad behaviour. You have to be sincere about what you are doing and not get to freaked out by strangers etc.. The people you find are unfamiliar and have not established themselves as your protectors/friends hence it is uncomfortable. *this is all to the newcomer here*. So just take care of how you treat others and focus on the content of the discussion rather than the 'drama' of who is doing what to whom and who is right and wrong (this is in need of interpretation obviously you see both but the point is not to get overwhelmed by resentment).
Vinylyn its not so spread out on a face to face sangha. There are so many mandalas amongst all the people here. A mandala is a set of values or principls extending outward to their circle of influence. Here there are so many. Such as drugs/no etc.. At the boundaries between mandalas is tension and emotion.
Also gentle speach (again I a hipocrit) and true peace will help you see that people are beautiful no matter how deluded. Thus there is peace even though someone is destroying themselves. And even though things are confusing. Buddhism promises that. Lasting Nirvana. Buddhism is not the world of children nor is it the world of logicians.
Yes, the poster has to moderate their tone, but I also think post-readers shouldn't be so quick to be offended. Just take a second look and see whether the poster is really attacking you, really calling you names, really questioning your intelligence, etc. If so, call them out on it and point out specifically how they did so. If not, then there's no need to be offended. Then hey you might have a nice discussion, you might learn something, you might live longer. Otherwise, all your 'offendedness' is doing is cultivating needless anger while silencing anyone who thinks differently to you."
:thumbsup:
There's some serious bullying going on here, all in the name of having to be "right". The mods are right, you could conceivably scare off potential new members with the bickering and the drama. Admittedly, I too (even though I've been here maybe two weeks) have been guilty in a couple of responses, and I feel some kind of way that maybe my good intentions may have hurt someone.
Intent truly does matter, however the written word is always suspect because you are not looking into someone's eyes,hearing the tone of the voice, or seeing their body language. I imagine this conversation to have been far less heated and respectful in person.
How can this be considered a sangha or even a safe place if we cannot agree to disagree - respectfully?
However, I think we are nice to newbies
We love newbies and especially love you Hubris
:wave:
Luckily there is a staff of admins and moderators here that will only take so much, and will eventually deep freeze the entire hornets' nest if people can't learn to get along.
One of the best tactics I've seen, if you find yourself in such a situation, is to stop responding to posts directed toward you that make you want to fight in defense. Just ignore them. If they're clearly meant for contentious purposes, flag them and let the staff know and stay out of it yourself. That takes one person out of it by their own self-control, and the other through staff intervention.
As a young child I could not wait to be an adult. I thought how marvellous to be all grown up, when i'm all grown up i'll be like all other adults and just 'know' all the time what the right thing to do and say is, life will be so much easier!' Of course, as an adult I realise that life isn't like that! So, on a very personal note i'm far too sensitive to what I perceive as hostility or undue harshness and it's just something I have to learn to live with. If I ever upset someone on here I would really like to know as it would never be my intention and I would like to apologise if that has ever and does ever happen. It would also be helpful to me as I can then re read what I have written and learn from it and try to put the situation right, as I don't really believe that the best way to get a point across is via the process of causing someone to feel that you are being hostile or angry etc. So, I think it's a two fold issue... it's down to the person writing something and the person reading something. Maybe if we're unclear if someone is being hostile we try to find a way to clear the air (perhaps through a private message) before continuing whatever is being debated and having it escalate further into angry post followed by angry post. Or, just simply walk away, and leave it at that, and hope that they next conversation with the person is less negative and to try not to hold a grudge. Feeding our own negative energies by engaging in battle with someone that has ruffled our feathers doesn't really pose any real purpose, and makes both people feel unhappy, and that is a long way from a healthy debate.
There are a lot of really interesting topics on here, and a lot of people that get their message across in ways that I don't think upset anyone. Maybe it's also important to be mindful of our own state of mind when replying; if we're having a hard time in life, or a bad day it might show in how we communicate and perhaps a reply to a thread is best left till we have had a bit of time to meditate, unwind or we're just simply in 'a better mood'.
Dandelion
It's not about truth. It's about some basic courtesy and caring about other people's feelings. And no, it's not "their fault" if they get upset over insulting posts and hey, frack 'em if they can't take the heat. There's a difference between people being over sensitive and getting slapped in the face with an insult to their practice or beliefs.
So the question is, are you capable and willing to consider people's feelings when you post, and ask yourself if what you're posting is rude and insulting? It doesn't matter what you think it is, Buddhism is a religion to most people that stresses compassion and emphasizes Right Speech. If you just don't care, then what are you actually doing on the board? Enjoying a good argument?
And to the moderators, no topic that says "Just Be" Crap and starts off rudely telling people they don't know what they were talking about should have been allowed to stay on a Buddhist board, and anyone posting here should know better. It's no wonder you get complaints. I enjoy not having a moderator slamming people with rules all the time, but the job does come with the responsibiltiy to step in when people go too far.
If you start your reply in all capital letters and an exclamation mark to denounce someone, they tend to take it personally and not care what the rest of your comment said. Last time: simmer down.