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A Bhikkhuni talks about how to deal with opposite sex relationship

edited September 2011 in Arts & Writings
Another Internet Chinese article which I will progressively translate. Hope you can enjoy this article!

"A Bhikkhuni talks about how to deal with opposite sex relationship"

After I left home, many people asked how I dealt with desire for the opposite sex.

This is definetly a question many people are interested in. After a person shaves their hair, remove all seductive make up, willingly uphold seemingly inhuman precepts, eating meatless dishes that only consist of "grass", chanting incomprehensible "mantras", and strangely sitting still for hours on end. How can they survive like this? Why do they do it? Do they not have desire? How do they deal with desires?

Comments

  • Everyone has desires. Always have and always will!!
    To not have desires is to a desire itself...
    Nothing wrong with desires just as long as we don't desire something which we CANNOT have!!!! How do we know if we can or cannot have something - 'wisdom'

    Having a desire to marry someone is fine. And to be honest healthy!
    Having a desire to marry a top A list celeb is pretty unhealthy as chances are it aint gonna happen!!!

    Buddhists shouldn't worry to much about all this desire stuff!
    Desire itself isn't what makes us suffer! Its desiring things which we cannot have which hurts us!!!!





  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited September 2011
    I think it's easier for some women than for men. However, one Western ex-Buddhist monk, who had been a monk for 20 years, told me that at some point, "you just become asexual". Maybe it depends on the individual constitution.

    Plenty of women don't wear make-up and eat meatless food anyway. Some householders live quiet, contemplative lives similar to monastics. One chooses the monastic life because one is inspired to devote oneself completely to matters of spirituality. Often it's not that big a change from a person's secular life.

    Thank you for sharing and for your translation work, Ch'an Noob. Waiting for the next installments. :)
  • edited September 2011
    Actually, the subject that everyone is most interested in is probably the question of desire for the opposite sex. Lay people don't understand, is the process of shaving, just like washing off dirt with water? All the desires gets shaved off with the hair?

    I will tell you now, no, after shaving, desires and habits have not been shaved off.

    But, for a truly wise and cautious person who have concern and takes responsibility for their future. If they choose to leave home, they must understand the advantages of leaving home.

    The Dharma, are not just tall statues of the Buddha, monks infront of ancient statues, and not superstitous worshippers who are there to seek protection and fortune.

    If you have not taken time to seek deeper understanding, you will never realise it's wonderful secrets.

    If you do not learn, do not cultivate, you will be a poor superstitious person. It's like as if your guarding a priceless treasure, yet not understand it's values.

    When I first started learning the Dharma, the many suffering and vexation I've experienced in the past, have gone away as if waking from a dream, as if they flew away like a bird. I found myself sitting there laughing to myself.

    I understood, do you understand?



  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited September 2011
    Wow, what a wonderful essay! Welcome back! :)

    If you read the Vinaya, it's clear that Buddha's monks' desires didn't vanish along with their hair. Nor his nuns' desires. You've written an inspiring post.
  • So how are lay buddhists supposed to deal with it?
  • I can tell you now, that my decision to leave home is the most wise and happy and decision in my life. It's a decision and participation full of committment. I've never retreated from your lives, never escaped from life, and I've never refused to face any problems that comes my way. In fact, I am using the Buddha's teachings to guide and release my wisdom, to solve and face with more efficency and positivity.

    Even though I am a begainner, comparing to all the honourable ones who's achieved the way I am just a baby in swaddle. Even though I am just a "Buddhist baby", I already felt Buddha's light. This light, isn't emitted by any Buddha or Bodhisattva, this light is emitted by me. It's a light gradually emitted after my slight awakening from the wisdom of my intrinsic nature.
  • I honestly reply to my friends, yes, I still have desires. When I see attractive people, I will still look, also, when I meet people that has Karmic connections with me, I can't help but to like them. But different to back then, how will I react now?

    Cause and Effect, is an un-doubtable law of the universe. Today's meeting and mutual attraction, are due to Karmic connections developed a long time ago. It may not neccesarily be like on Hollywood films, where today's meeting is due to oath of undying love or romance. It maybe because of past grudges, someone is trying to seek revenge. It maybe because of past debts, someone is here to seek repayment. It maybe because someone is someone else's grandparent, due to past attachments, they meet again in this life. It maybe because a past parent is trying to continue a karmic connections that was not exhausted in the past life. Or, It could be someone you've brushed shoulder with on the street, due to the thought of greed generated by one person to the other person's beauty. Orrr, it could be because of anything your imagination can come up with. In the West they call it the "Butterfly Effect".

  • So how are lay buddhists supposed to deal with it?
    In Shantideva's "A Guide to the Bodhisattva Way Of Life", this topic is dealt with. One suggested method is to visualize the object of your desire (or all members of the opposite sex) as disgusting bags of entrails, blood, puss, oozing excrement, you get the idea. Another method is for men to regard all women as their mother. Another method is to imagine all the drama that can come with a relationship, emotional pain, everything that happens when it doesn't work out. One can also imagine getting AIDS or STD's or other illnesses (hepatitis is highly communicable) from an encounter. I think this is called "aversion therapy" in modern psychology terms. I don't know how well it works, this is just what the book says.
  • I found the filthy skinbag visualisation more effective! (I mean, we are all literally filthy skin bags...you don't have poo in ya belly right now? :P)

    The other one doesn't have enough oomph behind it!
  • Being disgusted doesn't seem like the healthy answer to being attracted.
  • Being disgusted doesn't seem like the healthy answer to being attracted.
    And one could run the risk of just being plain misogynistic... Cultivating indifference is not the same thing as cultivating a sense of disgust.


  • And one could run the risk of just being plain misogynistic...
    I agree.

    When I see an attractive woman, I just allow myself as a heterosexual male to think, "Hm! That's a visually pleasant body. Okay, I'm going over here now." and that's the end of it.

    As long as you're not thinking about what they'd be like naked and/or in your bed, I don't see the harm in allowing and, more importantly, recognizing your sexuality. Attraction and fantasy are separate enough for it not to be a problem if you don't let it, I'd say.

  • When you meet a person like this, and you develope the attachment of desire, Karmic connections acts just so in an unconceivable way. When such Karmic connection arrives, you will not be able to control yourself. You will uncontrollably like and feel attracted to the person, you will think about them day and night. You can only think of how you can obtain them, you want to grant every wish that they desire. Yet you do not even realise that your mind is already spinning in circles within the universal law.

    Few thousand years ago, the Buddha used many skillful means to teach us this universal law. After you understood this fact, and you observe it again, you will realise "so It's like this!".

    Similarly, when the karmic condition is exhausted, no matter how much effort and power you use to keep them, it is useless. The ones that oughta to leave will still leave, everything will dissappear into emptiness. You, like a idiot, stares at this emptiness, reminiscing the past, your heart aches from this entanglement. Still thinking about all those unfulfilled desire. Complaining, entraped.

    When I meet this sort of Karmic connection, what would I do? I shall tell you:
  • Because are still just ordinary people, and we still have habits developed over the immeasurable past. Because these Karmic connections, because of the universal law, when we meet people with the particular sort of Karmic connection, our mind can't help but to think about them. We can try to supress these thoughts, but we discover that the harder we try to supress, the thoughts will come back with more intensity. Pretty fun huh? Action and Reaction, is also an universal law.

    Okay, we might as well sit down and stop torturing ourself. Lie on a comfortable sofa, just like when you are a young girl, turn your head and start fantasising.

    We think how we are going to have a wonderful happy life with that person, just like on fairy stories. Where we will have a happy marriage, have lots of kids, then they will have their kids to have a full and prosperous family. Then we get old, then we are about to die, when we are lying on our death bed during our last moment, what will you think about?

  • When you meet a person like this, and you develope the attachment of desire, Karmic connections acts just so in an unconceivable way. When such Karmic connection arrives, you will not be able to control yourself. You will uncontrollably like and feel attracted to the person, you will think about them day and night. You can only think of how you can obtain them, you want to grant every wish that they desire. Yet you do not even realise that your mind is already spinning in circles within the universal law.
    ...is this you talking, or a quote? Are you talking to me...?
  • Please read the OP, these are translations from a Chinese internet article, each new post continues the article.

  • Ch'an Noob, if you put the article in quotes, or if you precede each installation with [article continued], then we'll know what posts are the article, and which posts are you. :)
  • New Installment of the exciting article!!!

    "During this fantasy, I went from young to old, went through the filfullment of my desires. When I am 30 I've made this decision for my life, I will use the rest of my life to fulfill this decision. But after I die, what have I gained?

    Back then, because of one thought we joined together, the passion of romance will quickly subside. Because we don't know enough about each, the curiosity increases our mutual attraction. We imagine our other half is the lover hero or angel in a fairy tale, and is flawless. After knowing eachother well, they are still just a ordinary person with flesh and blood. Facing all of life's eating, sleeping, peeing, and pooing, It's impossible to still see them as heros or angels. The passion is gone, everything is just business as usual. The opposite half is not much different to other brothers and sisters. Besides the need to fulfil the desire of possession and the pride of "loyalty", there should be no mis-behaviour out of tradition.

    But querying all husbands and wives, when you honestly face your mind, do you still "love" your spouse like before? Is your mind racing away like a monkey or a horse? Has your mind strayed over the line? Do you contemplate gaining a new freedom? If your youth and beauty is still present, would you go out and find new excitements?
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