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What is the place of Meditation in Buddhism?

edited September 2011 in Meditation
I know little about Buddhism but I have been under the impression that Meditation is the backbone of Buddhism. However, from a large number of learned posts on this website, to which I am quite new, I get the impression that while Meditation may be important yet it is not the crux or essence of Buddism. Kindly help me get my perspective right.

Comments

  • I think you're trying to compartmentalize things and perhaps oversimplify. Meditation is a vitally important part of Buddhist practice. But meditation is *not* Buddhism, and Buddhism is not meditation. Meditation is but one of many tools, and should be used along with other forms of practice.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    It is an essential part. Monks don't spend hours in meditation for no reason. :)

    "Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, brings the four frames of reference to their culmination. The four frames of reference, when developed & pursued, bring the seven factors for awakening to their culmination. The seven factors for awakening, when developed & pursued, bring clear knowing & release to their culmination."

    None of that stuff happens if you spend your life running around like a chicken with your head cut off, which is how most people spend their lives. :)
  • BonsaiDougBonsaiDoug Simply, on the path. Veteran
    It is an essential part. Monks don't spend hours in meditation for no reason. :)
    Very true. The Buddha said:

    "As the fletcher whittles
    And makes straight his arrows,
    So the master directs
    His straying thoughts.
    - Dhammapada
  • Hi Ddrishi,

    There is no Noble Eightfold Path without meditation, nor is meditation all there is on the Noble Eightfold Path.

    The factors of "Right Effort" (Samma-Vayama), "Right Mindfulness" (Samma-Sati) and "Right Stillness" (Samma-Samadhi) are the factors of the Noble Eightfold Path which would fall under the category of "meditation".

    If Freedom from Suffering is your Goal, then meditation is important. However, meditation is no more/no less important than ethics (Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood) and wisdom (Right View, Right Intention).

    The Noble Eightfold Path needs to be practiced in it's entirety if Freedom from Suffering is your Goal.

    Metta,

    Guy
  • I am sorry but I do feel that 'freedom from suffering' is too small and too uninspiring a goal for anyone following any religion or practice. The goal should be to open up a fountain of joy within ourselves, even if there is a little suffering here and there. No?
  • GuyCGuyC Veteran
    edited September 2011
    Hi Ddrishi,
    I am sorry but I do feel that 'freedom from suffering' is too small and too uninspiring a goal for anyone following any religion or practice. The goal should be to open up a fountain of joy within ourselves, even if there is a little suffering here and there. No?
    Okay, how about "Ultimate Happiness" as the Goal? They are just words. Whatever words inspire you to practice Dhamma are useful. Whatever words aren't inspiring, don't worry about them.

    One one level, we are all different: We all have our different conditioning, our different likes and dislikes, our different motivations. For me, "Freedom From Suffering" is fine. Whatever inspires you to practice Dhamma is right for you.

    On another level, we are all the same: We all can benefit from practicing the Dhamma.

    Metta,

    Guy
  • The answer also depends on the school. In Zen, for instance, meditation is central to the point where it is safe to say that there is no Zen without meditation. Some other schools may emphasize "theory" more.

    However, the basis of all Buddhism, as far as I understand it, is that we severely misuse our thinking minds which results in a lot of michief. Therefore, working with the mind, for which meditation is the primary tool, is always of great importance.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited September 2011
    @ddrishi
    Buddhism's path is morality (sila), concentration (meditation), and wisdom (insight). Those are the grouped aspects of the Noble Eightfold Path, upon which the precepts are also based. Morality is the foundation that allows us to meditate effectively with a blameless mind, and that meditation allows us to cultivate insight into the nature of mind and all phenomena. With wisdom displacing our ignorance, our craving abates and we no longer create the causes for suffering to arise for ourselves or others.

    That's the theory, at any rate. Individual practice will vary.

    There are a lot of Buddhists that simply follow the precepts, i.e. the morality part, but don't attempt to develop a meditation practice (or the other way around... meditation without morality). While they try to act skillfully and not cause suffering, suffering will not be fully abated by how one acts alone. It has to be about how they think as well.
  • Morality (sila) is defined as a practice in any traditions. Upon some time of development in sila, it will develop concentration (meditation) more deeply. With the concentration, it develops naturally into wisdom (insight).
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited September 2011
    I could be wrong, but I wrote this a couple of months ago on my site:

    It is well known that Buddhists typically meditate regularly. The reason they Buddhists do this is so they can become mindful, aware of everything that’s going on, being aware of the true nature of reality: emptiness. This mindfulness experienced in meditation is then carried over to day-to-day life. It also calms one mind and clears it of negativity. It points to one’s true nature.

    Meditation is not just sitting cross legged and counting your breaths, though. Meditation is just simply being
    completely mindful. This can be done many
    ways, whether it be chanting, humming, or
    focusing on your breathing. It can be
    standing up or sitting down, laying or
    walking. Life is meditation if one is
    always mindful – because this shows us
    our Buddha-nature.
  • @ddrishi

    if we want emotional freedom & independence, that is, to be 100% self-reliant for our happiness, then meditation is the only way

    but if we are just looking for knowledge & skills to help us with our daily life, our relationships, etc, then meditation is not so important (imo)

    regards :om:
  • There is no Buddhism without meditation.
  • According to Mountains: “But meditation is *not* Buddhism, and Buddhism is not meditation. Meditation is but one of many tools, and should be used along with other forms of practice.”

    According to betaboy: “There is no Buddhism without meditation.”

    I see that there is lot of dissimilarity of views in this respect. With the little knowledge that I have on the subject, I believe that Buddha became Buddha only and solely on account of meditation. I believe further that the other tools Mountains is referring to are acquired as a bye-product of meditation. Will someone throw further light on this issue?
  • I would say meditation has a very important place in Buddhism. I mean important in following and practicing the teachings of the Buddha.

    Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration is the practice of meditation.

    The wisdom of Right View, Right Intention, and Right Effort can be cultivated through meditation.

    If you take away all these spokes on the wheel of the 8FP you are left with the ethical behavior components of Right Speech, Right Action (including the precepts), and Right Livelihood. While equally important on the path, these alone could not be expected to lead to awakening.

    Best Wishes
  • GuyCGuyC Veteran
    edited September 2011
    Hi Ddrishi,
    According to Mountains: “But meditation is *not* Buddhism, and Buddhism is not meditation. Meditation is but one of many tools, and should be used along with other forms of practice.”

    According to betaboy: “There is no Buddhism without meditation.”

    I see that there is lot of dissimilarity of views in this respect. With the little knowledge that I have on the subject, I believe that Buddha became Buddha only and solely on account of meditation. I believe further that the other tools Mountains is referring to are acquired as a bye-product of meditation. Will someone throw further light on this issue?
    If you practice meditation, then the opinions/choice of words/views of others won't matter; you will know the benefits/by-products/place of meditation from your own experience.

    Don't over-think meditation, instead, practice meditation. Then, if you want to, once you have gathered the experiential data, you can analyze and discuss it after you have practiced. If we just talk about meditation, but never practice, it will bring us no benefit.

    Metta,

    Guy
  • GuyC
    I am sorry but my question was not about benefits or place of meditation as such. BUT about its place in BUDDHISM.
  • It's a vital part of Buddhism. However, it's not the only part of Buddhism. There is the practice of morality as well, and the development of compassion, and so on. You can leave meditation out of the equation, but you won't get the full experience of what it can bring into your life.

    I kind of compare it to cooking. It's an important ingredient for vegetable soup, but if you cooked your soup without it, it's still soup, and you can eat it and enjoy it, just that you don't get the full flavor.
  • BonsaiDougBonsaiDoug Simply, on the path. Veteran
    edited September 2011
    GuyC
    I am sorry but my question was not about benefits or place of meditation as such. BUT about its place in BUDDHISM.
    I believe you've already gotten your answer.

    If Buddhism, in all of its flavors and traditions, has the 8 Fold Path at its core, then Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration is the practice of meditation. It is a fundamental foundation of Buddhism.

    Just my VHO... your mileage may vary.
  • At first meditation is sitting on the cushion, then it is your whole life. The cushion still counts though, but perspective and experience help us a whole lot more.
  • GuyCGuyC Veteran
    edited September 2011
    Hi Ddrishi,
    GuyC
    I am sorry but my question was not about benefits or place of meditation as such. BUT about its place in BUDDHISM.
    Here's just one example of how meditation (Right Effort, Right Mindfulness and Right Stillness) fits in with the rest of Buddhist Practice (i.e. the rest of the Noble Eightfold Path):

    If we go to sit down and meditate, but we realize that our mind is pre-occupied with some argument we had with another person earlier that day, then we will find it difficult to cultivate stillness and peace.

    We will realize, thanks to Right Mindfulness, the value of Right Speech (alter the scenario a little and you could easily change this to Right Action or Right Livelihood). We will realize, the best way to overcome remorse (one of the five hindrances to Right Stillness) is to live an ethical/harmless/blameless life so we don't say/do those words/actions which give rise to remorse in the first place.

    Seeing the cause and effect relationship between our actions and their results is (part of) Right View. We will resolve (Right Intention) to be kinder and less confrontational in the future.

    Depending on how in-grained our habit of confrontation is, it might take a bit of work. That's okay, it gives us an opportunity to practice Right Effort (the four Right Efforts are: Abandoning already-arisen unwholesome states of mind, guarding against as-yet-unarisen unwholesome states of mind, sustaining already-arisen wholesome states of mind and cultivating as-yet-unarisen wholesome states of mind) because we realize that all Wrong Speech and Wrong Actions stem from Wrong Intentions.

    We realize the power of the mind. We realize that our mind is not set in concrete, instead, it can be molded like clay. A skilful meditator molds his/her mind into something beautiful.

    I am sorry if I came across as dismissive earlier, it is just that I understand (from my own experience) that the best way to gain an understanding of what meditation is, how it works, how it fits in with the bigger picture of Buddhism, etc. - is to put the questions aside (at least for a while) and to just practice. Hopefully you will find that the majority of the questions you have will either: a) be answered by the meditation practice, or, b) not seem so important anymore.

    I hope this information is useful to you!

    Metta,

    Guy
  • Great answer, Guy. (I bow to you!)
    Hi Ddrishi,
    GuyC
    I am sorry but my question was not about benefits or place of meditation as such. BUT about its place in BUDDHISM.
    Here's just one example of how meditation (Right Effort, Right Mindfulness and Right Stillness) fits in with the rest of Buddhist Practice (i.e. the rest of the Noble Eightfold Path):

    If we go to sit down and meditate, but we realize that our mind is pre-occupied with some argument we had with another person earlier that day, then we will find it difficult to cultivate stillness and peace.

    We will realize, thanks to Right Mindfulness, the value of Right Speech (alter the scenario a little and you could easily change this to Right Action or Right Livelihood). We will realize, the best way to overcome remorse (one of the five hindrances to Right Stillness) is to live an ethical/harmless/blameless life so we don't say/do those words/actions which give rise to remorse in the first place.

    Seeing the cause and effect relationship between our actions and their results is (part of) Right View. We will resolve (Right Intention) to be kinder and less confrontational in the future.

    Depending on how in-grained our habit of confrontation is, it might take a bit of work. That's okay, it gives us an opportunity to practice Right Effort (the four Right Efforts are: Abandoning already-arisen unwholesome states of mind, guarding against as-yet-unarisen unwholesome states of mind, sustaining already-arisen wholesome states of mind and cultivating as-yet-unarisen wholesome states of mind) because we realize that all Wrong Speech and Wrong Actions stem from Wrong Intentions.

    We realize the power of the mind. We realize that our mind is not set in concrete, instead, it can be molded like clay. A skilful meditator molds his/her mind into something beautiful.

    I am sorry if I came across as dismissive earlier, it is just that I understand (from my own experience) that the best way to gain an understanding of what meditation is, how it works, how it fits in with the bigger picture of Buddhism, etc. - is to put the questions aside (at least for a while) and to just practice. Hopefully you will find that the majority of the questions you have will either: a) be answered by the meditation practice, or, b) not seem so important anymore.

    I hope this information is useful to you!

    Metta,

    Guy
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